[Archived] Gordon Brown

[SouthAussieRover]

I give Brown a fortnight.

[Paul]

He finished second, but was on the wrong end of a landslide against Chirac. The fact that he made it that far was a sign of protest to the status quo, but he was never going to win and the result reflected that. He didn't gain any power by making it that far.

Which, apart from the Chirac landslide, is exactly the same position as Griffin and his colleague. Le Pen, Griffin and Brons have each been elected as MEPs. By all accounts the election of BNP members in this country is a result of two things, protest votes against the established party, low turnout in the polls especially from the Labour voting public. Le Pen was slaughtered when it really mattered, I'm told but don't have the evidence that much the same thing has happened in the UK (Blackburn as one example) when there was a real danger of BNP gaining real power.

For all of his Nazi statements he, along with other prominent far right figures in France, have been dealt with by the law. It would be great to see them done away with, but they sadly have their place in a democratic society. It currently has no seats in parliament and the seats that it has in Europe are pretty much entirely down to their Anti-Europe stance and also opposition to the expansion of the EU.

From what I have read both Griffin and Le Pen have similar backgrounds on "Nazi" statements and have both been dealt with by the law. As you say they sadly have a place in a democratic society.

Having said that, there is also a big difference between the FN and the BNP. The FN is a nasty bunch of fascists and nazis, most of whom can barely put together an argument and understand little about the economy and global politics (not to mention anything else), but after that they don't share too much in common with the BNP. The FN isn't nearly as aggressive, nor does it have as many ties to actual violence as the BNP does. The FN is also not nearly as inherently racist as the BNP, they are anti-immigration and have their absurd interpretation of nationality, but there isn't the same level of racial hatred that you see with the BNP.

Sounds like a very accurate description of the BNP.

So I still think it's a bit rich that you're only statement on the elections is to suggest Britain should be ashamed of itself when the country you live in elected a politician with an identical stance several years ago under similar circumstances, a protest vote. I feel quite sure the British electorate would ensure Griffin and his colleagues never make substantial progress in this country. These parties have softened their image but fundamanetally they remain facists and nazis.

[Paul]

Of course they have policies; it's just that hard-core labour voters have fallen "hook line & sinker" for spin rather than the truth. The question you should be asking is what the current government's policies are? Apart from mutiny, revenge & back-stabbing.

Here are a few: (Taken from Conservative parties' website)

• Maintaining the same levels of expenditure in the NHS

• Cutting public spending on Benefits

• Scrapping ID cards

• Placing a limit on Immigration

• introduce a dedicated Border Police Force

• scrap stop and search forms and cut bureaucracy

• Scrap Labor's disastrous policy of early release,

• Every claimant potentially able to work will be engaged in welfare to work activities aimed at helping them back into work as quickly as possible

• Those not willing to take part will face tough sanctions

• Greater use of direct payments and individual budgets, which give people real control over their care.

• Build a high-speed rail line connecting London, Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds with the Continent through the Channel Tunnel.

• Cancel all moves to a third runway at Heathrow.

• freeze council tax for two years by reducing wasteful spending on advertising and consultancy in central government

• Cut the main rate of corporation tax to 25p and the small companies' rate to 20p

• Abolish Stamp Duty for nine out of ten first-time buyers and raise the Inheritance Tax threshold to £1 million. Both of these changes will be funded by a flat-rate charge on non-domiciles

• Offering English language instruction for all to cement the English language as the bedrock of our national identity

• Tackling unacceptable cultural practices, such as forced marriage and female genital mutilation

Bazza, I've been meaning to ask you about this post. A few on here, myself included, have questioned the lack of real policy from David Cameron. I listened to him quite a lot yesterday and the impression remains the Tories do not have, or at least have not published, policy statements under Cameron. I'm not asking this in an attempt to defend Labour's recent defeats - I'm not sure there is anything one can say except to ask to what extent protest votes and low turnout influenced the outcome?

However of the points you indicate above as policy most, not all, are already part of government thinking and there is nothing that is truely new in these "policies". TBH other than maintaining NHS funding most of the above is housekeeping, tinkering and management rather than policy. If the Conservatives are to offer an alternative surely they have to come up with a better list of "policies" than this? Other than the proposed Border police, Stamp Duty and Inheritance tax much, agreed not all, of this is already happening under Labour in one form or another. So where's the difference? Hidden I suspect.

[yoda]

He finished second, but was on the wrong end of a landslide against Chirac. The fact that he made it that far was a sign of protest to the status quo, but he was never going to win and the result reflected that. He didn't gain any power by making it that far.

For all of his Nazi statements he, along with other prominent far right figures in France, have been dealt with by the law. It would be great to see them done away with, but they sadly have their place in a democratic society. It currently has no seats in parliament and the seats that it has in Europe are pretty much entirely down to their Anti-Europe stance and also opposition to the expansion of the EU.

Having said that, there is also a big difference between the FN and the BNP. The FN is a nasty bunch of fascists and nazis, most of whom can barely put together an argument and understand little about the economy and global politics (not to mention anything else), but after that they don't share too much in common with the BNP. The FN isn't nearly as aggressive, nor does it have as many ties to actual violence as the BNP does. The FN is also not nearly as inherently racist as the BNP, they are anti-immigration and have their absurd interpretation of nationality, but there isn't the same level of racial hatred that you see with the BNP.

because the position of PM isn't legally defined and is more a position of custom, so anyone can hold the position.

The far left are just as bad if not worse in France, we have come up against one of them locally, nasty underhand fargin sneaky bastige of a corksucker who should be put down, still we are taking the matter up with the local Deputy who will hopefully put the bastige in his place.

[Billy Castell]

Why do you rate this Communist so highly then Yoda? He sounds a great chap!

OK, there is a need for a debate on immigration as this isand is only so big, and I'd kick out all the cray Muslim types who rant on about 'death to the West etc.' regardless of whether they'll be tortured abroad, but the BNP are just nasty. If they got in power, they'd be harrassing and abusing every Jew, black, Asian or anyone who doesn't fit their idea of who is 'British'. They'd happily force out a GP who has never even had a speeding ticket because he happens to be a Sikh, or an elderly man who has spent 50 years running a business just because he was born in Trinidad. Thing is, would they also expell people like former England captain Terry Butcher (born in Singapore), former England captain Nasser Hussein (born in Madras), Sir Trevor McDonald, Chris Samba, Kevin Pietersen, Kevin Spacey and Roman Abramovich? I doubt it, as they'd be kicking up a s___storm if they did. The Gurkhas would also be banned despite their service in our military, which would show them up as what they are, dishonourable crapbags. I don't care if it was a protest vote, those who have voted for them are also crapbags. Pick another lot to protest with, Greens, UKIP whatever. Just not these nobs.

I think Gordon will stay for a while, and then it'll suddenly burst and we'll have an election. In his position, some will hang on and try to prove they can do the job, whilst others will just say 'stuff this I don't need the stress' and leave. The latter people will eventually feel the relief and enjoy taking their famiy to the park without all the other distractions, whilst the former will usually end up being disposed of anyway and get bitter and angry. Personally, I'd have gone today, and basically gone on some rant against everyone I had an issue with, and called the journalist a load of ____. Or held a very serious, sombre conference dressed up as a banana or something.

[JC4LAB]

If the government wants to survive it should nick a few policies from the other parties which are vote winners..No one would vote BNP if the main stream parties had an immigration policy. its been done with Green issues.so the immgration needs sorting...For some politicans locally , maybe , its where the majority of votes come so its a vote loser... .....All this expense fiddling malarkey just stinks of an excuse to get rid of Gordon..Its been going on since time began in every government and the only thing to do is the put the systems in that stop it than call for mass executions and the heads of MPs...There are greater crimes and corruptions elsewhere in the world.

[thenodrog]

The Gurkhas would also be banned despite their service in our military, which would show them up as what they are, dishonourable crapbags.

The Gurkhas had already been banned by dishonourable crapbags that had sod all to do with the BNP until public pressure changed their minds.

[JAL]

Bazza, I've been meaning to ask you about this post. A few on here, myself included, have questioned the lack of real policy from David Cameron. I listened to him quite a lot yesterday and the impression remains the Tories do not have, or at least have not published, policy statements under Cameron. I'm not asking this in an attempt to defend Labour's recent defeats - I'm not sure there is anything one can say except to ask to what extent protest votes and low turnout influenced the outcome?

However of the points you indicate above as policy most, not all, are already part of government thinking and there is nothing that is truely new in these "policies". TBH other than maintaining NHS funding most of the above is housekeeping, tinkering and management rather than policy. If the Conservatives are to offer an alternative surely they have to come up with a better list of "policies" than this? Other than the proposed Border police, Stamp Duty and Inheritance tax much, agreed not all, of this is already happening under Labour in one form or another. So where's the difference? Hidden I suspect.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE PAUL they are both the same!

[yoda]

Why do you rate this Communist so highly then Yoda? He sounds a great chap!

OK, there is a need for a debate on immigration as this isand is only so big, and I'd kick out all the cray Muslim types who rant on about 'death to the West etc.' regardless of whether they'll be tortured abroad, but the BNP are just nasty. If they got in power, they'd be harrassing and abusing every Jew, black, Asian or anyone who doesn't fit their idea of who is 'British'. They'd happily force out a GP who has never even had a speeding ticket because he happens to be a Sikh, or an elderly man who has spent 50 years running a business just because he was born in Trinidad. Thing is, would they also expell people like former England captain Terry Butcher (born in Singapore), former England captain Nasser Hussein (born in Madras), Sir Trevor McDonald, Chris Samba, Kevin Pietersen, Kevin Spacey and Roman Abramovich? I doubt it, as they'd be kicking up a s___storm if they did. The Gurkhas would also be banned despite their service in our military, which would show them up as what they are, dishonourable crapbags. I don't care if it was a protest vote, those who have voted for them are also crapbags. Pick another lot to protest with, Greens, UKIP whatever. Just not these nobs.

I think Gordon will stay for a while, and then it'll suddenly burst and we'll have an election. In his position, some will hang on and try to prove they can do the job, whilst others will just say 'stuff this I don't need the stress' and leave. The latter people will eventually feel the relief and enjoy taking their famiy to the park without all the other distractions, whilst the former will usually end up being disposed of anyway and get bitter and angry. Personally, I'd have gone today, and basically gone on some rant against everyone I had an issue with, and called the journalist a load of ____. Or held a very serious, sombre conference dressed up as a banana or something.

didn't say he was a commy,

he is a peice of sh1t however, and a facist along with his tinpot helpers who think that the local town should be for local people, a bit like a French Royston Vassey,

get em up against a wall I say

[joey_big_nose]

Bazza, I've been meaning to ask you about this post. A few on here, myself included, have questioned the lack of real policy from David Cameron. I listened to him quite a lot yesterday and the impression remains the Tories do not have, or at least have not published, policy statements under Cameron. I'm not asking this in an attempt to defend Labour's recent defeats - I'm not sure there is anything one can say except to ask to what extent protest votes and low turnout influenced the outcome?

However of the points you indicate above as policy most, not all, are already part of government thinking and there is nothing that is truely new in these "policies". TBH other than maintaining NHS funding most of the above is housekeeping, tinkering and management rather than policy. If the Conservatives are to offer an alternative surely they have to come up with a better list of "policies" than this? Other than the proposed Border police, Stamp Duty and Inheritance tax much, agreed not all, of this is already happening under Labour in one form or another. So where's the difference? Hidden I suspect.

I think the point is that no one really wants much changed. That is the irony of it. People screaming hells bells and giving the government a kicking. But there is not enough of an appetite for real change in how the country is run. Its not 1979.

[thenodrog]

Britains first muslim MP Shahid Malik's dodgy dealings are refusing to go away. More cover ups from New Labour as Brown restores him to the front bench no doubt in a transparent attempt to grub a few votes at the next General election...... Will they never learn?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...ahid-Malik.html

[Eddie]

The far left are just as bad if not worse in France, we have come up against one of them locally, nasty underhand fargin sneaky bastige of a corksucker who should be put down, still we are taking the matter up with the local Deputy who will hopefully put the bastige in his place.

Never criticise the left!

[thenodrog]

Never criticise the left!

MGP would second that!

[yoda]

Never criticise the left!

left right middle, if they are tossers they get it

[Billy Castell]

The Gurkhas had already been banned by dishonourable crapbags that had sod all to do with the BNP until public pressure changed their minds.

True, but they'd never have a chance with the BNP numpties in charge. My mum taught them English whilst we lived in Hong Kong and they were lovely people. The tests they have to do in Nepal to be considered are probably as tough as the Marines if not harder. The excuse that the regiments were stationed in Hong Kong until 1997, so they should not be given the rights that Ms. Lumley fought for made my blood boil. It smacked of a government that was actively trying to deny them entry to the country, and not some unfortunate bureaucratic oversight that needed to be ironed out.

At least there is talk of voyting reform, though I doubt it'll come to anything. The current first past the post system is crap, and leads to crap governments with the vast majority voting against their candidates.

[broadsword]

In response, at prime minister's questions, Gordon Brown said such a policy would result in "massive" cuts to "vital" services.

In contrast, he said under Labour spending would rise, in real terms, in each of the next five years.

"This is the day when the Conservatives have revealed their true manifesto for this country," he said.

"The choice is between a government prepared to invest in the future and a Tory Party which is going to cut."

Does anyone really believe that quote from Gordon Brown (courtesy of the Beeb)?

There's no way they can keep on spending money like it's going out of fashion - we'll turn into an economic basket case.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Does anyone really believe that quote from Gordon Brown (courtesy of the Beeb)?

There's no way they can keep on spending money like it's going out of fashion - we'll turn into an economic basket case.

Whoever wins the next general election is going to have to make spending cuts, the pot is empty and we can't continue to keep borrowing at the same levels.

[tashor]

Does anyone really believe that quote from Gordon Brown (courtesy of the Beeb)?

There's no way they can keep on spending money like it's going out of fashion - we'll turn into an economic basket case.

Whoever wins the next general election is going to have to make spending cuts, the pot is empty and we can't continue to keep borrowing at the same levels.

Gosh!! We're all Tory now aren't we...............

How long will it be after the next election before the fleweerkwhitlers hereabouts start to blame the Conservative government for the "cuts" that Broone the witless has made inevitable thanks to his profligate ruinous spending............

We - as a country - voted for the failed experiment that was nu labor. We are to blame.........

Eat your shyiite sanny and shut the fleurrkh up.

[thenodrog]

Does anyone really believe that quote from Gordon Brown (courtesy of the Beeb)?

There's no way they can keep on spending money like it's going out of fashion - we'll turn into an economic basket case.

He knows New Lab have not a snowflakes chance in hell of staying in power so he's not offering anything at all. He is just polliticking for the General Election after that. The financial Labour time bomb laid by Brown is in place and ticking away.

Strange thing this, just what sort of an ego or mentality has Brown?

1. He knows that he has failed and damaged the country irretrievably, everybody tells him so and his record is undeniable.

2. He knows he has failed the Labour party cos his own party members are telling him that.

3. He knows that he has never been elected.

4. He knows that he is hated and reviled across the board, and ridiculed by his peers from other nations.

So what sort of mind set must he have to cling on for grim death when just about everybody cannot wait for him to go? Has his long standing craving for absolute power twisted his thought processes? Are the gloating Blairs responsible? Just what is it that is driving him to what looks like might end up an early grave?

[Flopsy]

He thinks that he's right, he knows best and that if he's given a bit more time, he'll prove it. Also, anyone who disagrees is an idiot and will be smeared by his people.

Bunker mentality is right.

[broadsword]

Just what is it that is driving him to what looks like might end up an early grave?

He really does look wrecked, I have to say.

What sort of life does he have? It's not really worth it, is it?

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Brown is actually been quite clever and self-sacrificial may I add. He knows that Labour don’t stand a chance of been re-elected, so he operating a “scorched earth” policy- for the next government.

They will then inherit the unhealthiest set of public finances in the Western world- which will take a decade (at least) to rectify- resulting in a quicker demise of the newly elected government.

[Billy Castell]

I think Flopsy is right. Brown's like one of those sad old women you see in Las Vegas who are on the one armed bandit 24 hours a day, urinating on the tasteless carpets. He's in his office thinking along the lines of 'just three more goes, then I'll get the four cherries, just hang on in there. Things will turn around.......' Of course, he has helped create this big mess but that seems to have escaped him.

Just go Gordon, whilst you're still sane and not sitting in a corner muttering to yourself with a tulip pointing out of your nose.

[broadsword]

I don't think he is sane.

Mad and deluded.

[American]

I don't think he is sane.

Mad and deluded.

Gordon or Billy?