[Archived] Gordon Brown

[Bazzanotsogreat]

As for posters such as Paul? You need to get a little experience of life, as once again when challenged you walk awy from the discussion and resort to insulting others. I could happily point you to people who are close to me and duly affected by their "woeful" spending record. Would you like a list?

Socially, economically, culturally - in what way? Did you have a mortgage under Lamont? Did you try to raise a family under the Tories? Did you try to save for retirement under the Tories? Of course Labour have not achieved some of what we hoped for but they have certainly achieved more than the Tories have or will.

On your quip about life experience; how the hell have you got through life been so sensitive? How can the sentence – “As for posters such as Paul” be construed as a personal insult?

You have no insight into my life experiences my Job, earnings or anything else so why assume that you do. All that I do know is that it is virtually impossible for younger people to own there own home (who in reality has a 25-35K deposit for a house at the ages of 23-27). It is even harder for younger people to keep it.

As for your last sentence ;it basically illustrates to me that Labour’s ‘manufacturing consent’ machine has been a complete success.

[scotchrover]

On your quip about life experience; how the hell have you got through life been so sensitive? How can the sentence – “As for posters such as Paul” be construed as a personal insult?

You have no insight into my life experiences my Job, earnings or anything else so why assume that you do. All that I do know is that it is virtually impossible for younger people to own there own home (who in reality has a 25-35K deposit for a house at the ages of 23-27). It is even harder for younger people to keep it.

As for your last sentence ;it basically illustrates to me that Labour’s ‘manufacturing consent’ machine has been a complete success.

You have no real comebacks do you for the Tory administration of the past (80's 90's) and the tory administration of now. Its must be truely embarresing saying "iam a northern tory" after what happened to northern britain in the 80's and 90's

[Bazzanotsogreat]

You have no real comebacks do you for the Tory administration of the past (80's 90's) and the tory administration of now. Its must be truely embarresing saying "iam a northern tory" after what happened to northern britain in the 80's and 90's

It is pointless even trying to have any sort of rationale debate with you Scotch. So from now I will be putting you on ignore.

One thing I do know is that although a few hundred thousand miners lost there jobs ( and were extremely well compensated) I felt much safer in my own streets than I do these days + we didn’t have 1000’s of British citizens wanting to impart death on the majority who don’t happen to agree with there medieval outlook. Nor, was there a child knifed to death virtually everyday.

The drug problem has reached an epidemic proportion and the youth of today are more interested in bling, 50 cent and guns than trying to achieve something in their lives. For the first time ever Britain has slipped out of the worlds top ten for English & Maths results in schools. We have University students who are burdened with 20-30K worth of debt by the age of 21 (which is actively encouraged by New Labour).

On one thread you start off with ‘get rid of Gordon Brown- whatever happened to the old Socialist Labour’- then the next you stating that he is the best thing since sliced bread. I hold Brown firmly responsible for the catastrophes that lies ahead- and trust me it will be far worse than anything that happened under the Tories. Rather than trying to overthrow his mate Tony< he should perhaps paid attention to the warnings he received about sub_primes and toxic debt some 2 years prior to this mess. Then we have his absolutely dismal record on national and personal debt; where was the contingency money from the last 11 years of GLOBAL growth?

Your type of political philosophy died in the 1950’s – deluded, myopic and well and truly uninformed.

[grizfoot]

You can't pin all this on Gordon though surely. Wasn't Margaret Thatcher the one who promoted the idea of a market economy? the same market economy ideology that is bound to go through bust and boom periods.

Wasn't Margaret Thatcher the one who promoted the deregulation of the mortgage markets?

Wasn't Margaret Thatcher the one who sold of council houses and began this obession with house ownership?

You can twist it anyway you want and say person X or country Y is to blame but at the end of the day the financial crisis is a global problem that occurred because of multiple different reasons and to blame it soley on the shoulder of one person seems a little silly to me.

Okay I do agree that working of an increasing budget defecit during a boom period was in hindsight a mistake from Brown. His idea about the boom and bust cycle having ended also seems pretty ridiculous right now. But credit where it's due he's seemingly come up with a plan along with Darling & co. that is being used all over the world now in hope that it will soften the blow of this global financial crisis.

Ian Hislop on Have I Got News For You tonight said something along the lines of 'Gordon Brown rescuing the global economy is like a person throwing a rope to someone drowning in a river, only he was the person who pushed them in there in the first place' and I can see why some people have that opinion.

Gordon is by no means a 'super-hero' but he has hopefully set down the plan that will cushion the blow and for that we must be grateful.

[thenodrog]

You can't pin all this on Gordon though surely. Wasn't Margaret Thatcher the one who promoted the idea of a market economy? the same market economy ideology that is bound to go through bust and boom periods.

Wasn't Margaret Thatcher the one who sold of council houses and began this obession with house ownership?

Quite true grizfoot. But surely after over a decade of Labour govt (who criticised, opposed and promised to redress the situation when/if they got in power) have been guilty of breaking promises and therefore are guilty of dereliction of duty?

[colin]

One thing I do know is that although a few hundred thousand miners lost there jobs ( and were extremely well compensated) I felt much safer in my own streets than I do these days + we didn’t have 1000’s of British citizens wanting to impart death on the majority who don’t happen to agree with there medieval outlook. Nor, was there a child knifed to death virtually everyday.

"One thing I do know is that although a few hundred thousand miners lost there jobs ( and were extremely well compensated)"

Just for starters "there" should be "their." (sorry for doing the thing I shouldn't be doing) I won't post "you illiterate clod."

Yes, a "few hundred thousand miners lost their jobs."

And a few more hundred thousand people who sold them and their families their daily food went bust because they had no customers.

And the mechanics who serviced the miners cars went bust.

And the engineering firms who serviced the mines went bust.

And whole communities who depended on the coal mining industry went into deep recession.

And miners were not "extremely well compensated"

(BTW it's grammatically acceptable to start a sentance with "And." It really is.)

Maybe some people on here are old enough to remember miners begging on street corners for food and money. I do.

What a low point that was in our history

"..and were extremely well compensated" Come on then Bazza, run the finances past us. I might be a fussy old bugger in my old age but I really really need you to come up with some seriously stable, provable, sources for that comment.

I'll give you a week otherwise you get a frozen sausage up yer rear end.

My diary is noted.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

"One thing I do know is that although a few hundred thousand miners lost there jobs ( and were extremely well compensated)"

Just for starters "there" should be "their." (sorry for doing the thing I shouldn't be doing) I won't post "you illiterate clod."

Yes, a "few hundred thousand miners lost their jobs."

And a few more hundred thousand people who sold them and their families their daily food went bust because they had no customers.

And the mechanics who serviced the miners cars went bust.

And the engineering firms who serviced the mines went bust.

And whole communities who depended on the coal mining industry went into deep recession.

And miners were not "extremely well compensated"

(BTW it's grammatically acceptable to start a sentance with "And." It really is.)

Maybe some people on here are old enough to remember miners begging on street corners for food and money. I do.

What a low point that was in our history

"..and were extremely well compensated" Come on then Bazza, run the finances past us. I might be a fussy old bugger in my old age but I really really need you to come up with some seriously stable, provable, sources for that comment.

I'll give you a week otherwise you get a frozen sausage up yer rear end.

My diary is noted.

Colin been the sensitive soul that you are; I will not lower myself to the petty personal insults that you have resorted to. ( For your information I am dyslexic) & do get the occasional word wrong.

What gets me with the likes of Jim & yourself is that you love to dish out but can’t stand it back.

Back to the miners strike- It was handled badly to say the least, however things had to change- could the country afford to prop up mines that were running at huge losses? One thing is for sure such ‘bad practise’ would not be accept in any western country in the 21st century.

This sums it up nicely

Having reached its peak in terms of employment and output at the beginning of World War I the British coal industry had been gradually shrinking ever since as the world gradually switched to oil as the fossil fuel of choice. Thereafter the British coal industry lurched from crisis to crisis, inviting various degrees of government intervention

On redundancy pay – taken from the bastion socialism ‘The miners special Issue ( March 1984)

• A 30-year-old married miner (one per week and made

Redundant after 10 years would get £11,170 in redundancy pay.

• This redundancy equates to three years Normal living.

By my estimates taking into consideration Inflation- that equates to well-over £30,000 compensation in todays money- Which is in line with what my two uncles received in the late 80’s.

If Arthur Scargill ( who wasrecieving money from Cuba & Libya for his crusade), had not been so rapped up in his own personal crusade to turn Britain into ‘trotskyist state’ then that level would have been considerably higher. The socialist left that was as much to blame for the outcome of the miners strike as was Thatcher

Your turn Colin

[jim mk2]

Bazza, the old political battles are over. Labour are not going to renationalise industry (except banks !) and the Tories aren't going to get rid of the NHS.

Politics has moved to the centre, like it or not we're all social democrats now.

[yoda]

Bazza, the old political battles are over. Labour are not going to renationalise industry (except banks !) and the Tories aren't going to get rid of the NHS.

Politics has moved to the centre, like it or not we're all social democrats now.

speak for yourself!

[Flopsy]

whats a knat?

[MCMC1875]

"One thing I do know is that although a few hundred thousand miners lost there jobs ( and were extremely well compensated)"

Just for starters "there" should be "their." (sorry for doing the thing I shouldn't be doing) I won't post "you illiterate clod."

Yes, a "few hundred thousand miners lost their jobs."

And a few more hundred thousand people who sold them and their families their daily food went bust because they had no customers.

And the mechanics who serviced the miners cars went bust.

And the engineering firms who serviced the mines went bust.

And whole communities who depended on the coal mining industry went into deep recession.

And miners were not "extremely well compensated"

(BTW it's grammatically acceptable to start a sentance with "And." It really is.)

I suggest that this depends at which school you were educated. At my school we were taught not to start a sentence with 'And'.

[thenodrog]

Stop whining on about miners Colin. When are you going to drag up Tolpuddle martyrs? Luddites? Jarrow marchers? They are all unsavoury episodes in our history that have left their impression on our history. The miners were a gullible and convenient battleground fought over by the extreme left wing and the Thatcher govt. Collectively in the 70's the unions had proved more powerful than a democratically elected British Govt. They were quite happy to damage the entire UK economy in order to achieve their political ideals. It could not be allowed to continue, whichever goverment were elected would have had to overcome their undemocratic domination of the country. Scargill thought he was the man Thatcher quite rightly proved otherwise. She was indeed the 'guv'nor!

One thing I do know is that buying cheaper imported coal then will serve us well in the future. Never mind all that soppy politically inspired tosh about once a mine is closed it is closed forever. It's all ######, our coal is an increasingly important resource.

If you really feel the need to blame governments for placing hardship and despair on the population you need look no further than WW1. That made the miners supposed 'hardship' look like a walk in the park.

[yoda]

I suggest that this depends at which school you were educated. At my school we were taught not to start a sentence with 'And'.

Starting with and is a definate no no

[jim mk2]

Starting with and is a definate no no

Spelling definitely wrong is definitely a no-no.

[yoda]

Spelling definitely wrong is definitely a no-no.

who asked you?

[thenodrog]

who asked you?

Yoda........ Jim's spelling ability is A standard .... I'd even say it was A+ if only he could get the hang of spelling his own name correctly.

....it's just the content that he struggles so much with.

[yoda]

Yoda........ Jim's spelling ability is A standard .... I'd even say it was A+ if only he could get the hang of spelling his own name correctly.

....it's just the content that he struggles so much with.

[scotchrover]

It is pointless even trying to have any sort of rationale debate with you Scotch. So from now I will be putting you on ignore.

One thing I do know is that although a few hundred thousand miners lost there jobs ( and were extremely well compensated) I felt much safer in my own streets than I do these days + we didn’t have 1000’s of British citizens wanting to impart death on the majority who don’t happen to agree with there medieval outlook. Nor, was there a child knifed to death virtually everyday.

The drug problem has reached an epidemic proportion and the youth of today are more interested in bling, 50 cent and guns than trying to achieve something in their lives. For the first time ever Britain has slipped out of the worlds top ten for English & Maths results in schools. We have University students who are burdened with 20-30K worth of debt by the age of 21 (which is actively encouraged by New Labour).

On one thread you start off with ‘get rid of Gordon Brown- whatever happened to the old Socialist Labour’- then the next you stating that he is the best thing since sliced bread. I hold Brown firmly responsible for the catastrophes that lies ahead- and trust me it will be far worse than anything that happened under the Tories. Rather than trying to overthrow his mate Tony< he should perhaps paid attention to the warnings he received about sub_primes and toxic debt some 2 years prior to this mess. Then we have his absolutely dismal record on national and personal debt; where was the contingency money from the last 11 years of GLOBAL growth?

Your type of political philosophy died in the 1950’s – deluded, myopic and well and truly uninformed.

I am deluded???

Iam not the one who backs a party that is all in favour of underfunding every dam public service going.

Did you know the Tory's where planning to privertize the NHS in 1997 eh??(if 97 had of been won

You have the "type of political philosophy died in the 1950’s – deluded, myopic and well and truly uninformed".

Did you know I actually have a degree in politics eh???

Before you start I am a Liberal Democrat.

[jim mk2]

who asked you?

A thicky who can't spell.

Moving on, it would appear the Tories continue to excel at their favourite pastime .... sleaze.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...five-times.html

[yoda]

A thicky who can't spell.

Moving on, it would appear the Tories continue to excel at their favourite pastime .... sleaze.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...five-times.html

thicky is not even in the dictionary

[thenodrog]

Touche!

btw Jim I knew a bloke who was dyslexic and he couldn't smell either.

[broadsword]

Moving on, it would appear the Tories continue to excel at their favourite pastime .... sleaze.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...five-times.html

Funnily enough, I don't recall you mentioning Mandelson coming back into Government again?

I don't think it's just the Tories that indulge in sleaze. Over teh last 10 years, Labour, or should I say "New Labour" have trumped them.

[thenodrog]

Funnily enough, I don't recall you mentioning Mandelson coming back into Government again?

I don't think it's just the Tories that indulge in sleaze. Over teh last 10 years, Labour, or should I say "New Labour" have trumped them.

Not suprisingly Mandelson's involved in this too.

[Billy Castell]

The Tories had loads more sex scandals than Labour, but they're equal in terms of financial scandals. Mandelson is the embodiment of how hollow, corrupt and generally annoying 'New Labour' is. And now we have 'New, new Labour' in the Tories. Great.

Mandelson and the aluminium magnate, Peter strikes again.

[Flopsy]

its amazing that jim hasn't mentioned the whole formula 1 money scandal or the cash for peerages but they're nothing compared to this story about a shadow minister that has done nothing wrong. Anybody would think that peter mandleson and alaistair campbell were back in government. Oh.

PMQ's should be fun today, what with broon stating no more boom and bust and the BofE saying we're in a recession