[Archived] More Crap From Hughes

[47er]

I don't pretend to understand the history of the middle east but imo the only way out of the present impasse is to look forward and not backward. I doubt they ever will but the only way forward for a peaceable Middle East imo is for the Arab states to actually recognise the state of Israel and not be so stubborn in denying the Israeli's what really is a tiny scrap of land in comparison to the land under Arab control as their homeland. Lets be honest most of the arab states are only johnny cum lately's themselves aren't they? But is thios likley to happen? Is it hell! The Israeli's seek nothing more than the area that they currently hold whereas we all must know the world of islam is expansionist in the extreme.

Whether we were right or wrong in helping form the state of Israel is largely irrelevent, Israel does exist and it appears to be flourishing despite all the obstacles provided by it's neighbours.

I think you do pretend to understand the history of the middle East but are out of your depth. Otherwise you'd know that Israel is an expasionist state. Ever heard of the illegal settlements? The area they "currently hold" is beyond their borders.

[leftfooter]

2. It was a vote borne out of frustration. Let me ask you this Theno, as you do seem less able than many to put yourself in the shoes of others. Imagine if you lived in the Gaza Strip. It's 70% made up of those who were kicked out of their homes back in '48 and their descendants. People who lived in relative prosperity, who had lived there for generations, suddenly forced by the Zionists, America and the UK to live in this squalid ghetto. If we exclude places like Singapore, Macau, Hong Kong and Monaco where the high population is a marker of prosperity, it is the most densely populated territory on earth, 4 times more densely populated than the nearest comparable country in the list.

What would your reactions be as you saw the country next door, who kicked you out of your rightful home, suddenly prosper as it became awash with Western funding, while all the while doing so on the land you once occupied, while you were forced to live in this hell hole. Would you be happy? What would your feelings to the West be as they kick you out and then take the side of the country occupying your area? You'd be very angry, and then the more violent factions of your society would unite to form an armed resistance. This is hardly unique to Muslims - see ETA, the IRA etc. Only the situation for the Palestinians were much worse - noone in Northern Ireland or the Basque country had to live in conditions anywhere near how people in Gaza have to live.

My original response to ASE was to agree that it's wrong to ostracise Ben Haim and even more egregious of Hughes to tolerate the selective discrimination of one of his players.

I still think the desert despots will be desperate to offload Ben Haim for their following reasons:

1. To avoid the 'embarrassment' of seeing an Israeli/Jew wearing 'their' shirt and

2. Now that City are out of the FA Cup to avoid criticism and possible censure by leaving Ben Haim back in Manchester when they take City to play in 'sunshine' friendlies over in their nasty little country.

If, like Jan, you're condoning this 'special treatment' for Ben Haim, then shame on you.

I also would not be surprised if Ben Haim is thrown in to the RSC deal, with a golden handshake for the former to compensate for the inevitable pay cut at Ewood.

As for your obsessive antipathy toward Israel:

"…What would your reactions be as you saw the country next door, who kicked you out of your rightful home, suddenly prosper as it became awash with Western funding?"

So it's true; sooner or later, the tactics of terrorism work.

You recite the same desultory mantra (or sura) of the Saudi trained British Imam. You're not 'condoning' it. All the same Israel/the West/America did 'have it coming'.

Why weren't you hawking your conscience from forum to forum when Palestinian leaders were alligning themselves with the most despicable regimes on earth (first Saddam Hussein, now Ahmadinejad) and transforming their classrooms into indoctrination centres for child martyrdom?

As for your 'Western funding' claim, you're repeating Arabist dogma. Israel could comfortably do without American 'aid'. Denuded of natural resources, Israel survives on its wits. It has a thriving Hi-Tec, financial and manufacturing sector. Most American 'funding' is accounted for in weapons purchases, which then funnels back into the U.S. economy. It amounts to much less than 2% of total Israeli GDP.

The Palestinians on the other hand are awash with Western funding: European, American, Japanese etc... Then you've got to throw in the odd dinar here and there from the Gulf Arabs and that benevolent patron and philosophical inspiration of the people of Gaza - Iran. The United Nations has even dedicated an entire agency, UNRWA to help terrorists turn refugee camps into centres of the Palestinian war machine.

Nowhere else on earth do terrorists get so much help from the Free World and beyond.

How are they spending our money?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTGbP55HGi8

[47er]

My original response to ASE was to agree that it's wrong to ostracise Ben Haim and even more egregious of Hughes to tolerate the selective discrimination of one of his players.

I still think the desert despots will be desperate to offload Ben Haim for their following reasons:

1. To avoid the 'embarrassment' of seeing an Israeli/Jew wearing 'their' shirt and

2. Now that City are out of the FA Cup to avoid criticism and possible censure by leaving Ben Haim back in Manchester when they take City to play in 'sunshine' friendlies over in their nasty little country.

If, like Jan, you're condoning this 'special treatment' for Ben Haim, then shame on you.

I also would not be surprised if Ben Haim is thrown in to the RSC deal, with a golden handshake for the former to compensate for the inevitable pay cut at Ewood.

As for your obsessive antipathy toward Israel:

"…What would your reactions be as you saw the country next door, who kicked you out of your rightful home, suddenly prosper as it became awash with Western funding?"

So it's true; sooner or later, the tactics of terrorism work.

You recite the same desultory mantra (or sura) of the Saudi trained British Imam. You're not 'condoning' it. All the same Israel/the West/America did 'have it coming'.

Why weren't you hawking your conscience from forum to forum when Palestinian leaders were alligning themselves with the most despicable regimes on earth (first Saddam Hussein, now Ahmadinejad) and transforming their classrooms into indoctrination centres for child martyrdom?

As for your 'Western funding' claim, you're repeating Arabist dogma. Israel could comfortably do without American 'aid'. Denuded of natural resources, Israel survives on its wits. It has a thriving Hi-Tec, financial and manufacturing sector. Most American 'funding' is accounted for in weapons purchases, which then funnels back into the U.S. economy. It amounts to much less than 2% of total Israeli GDP.

The Palestinians on the other hand are awash with Western funding: European, American, Japanese etc... Then you've got to throw in the odd dinar here and there from the Gulf Arabs and that benevolent patron and philosophical inspiration of the people of Gaza - Iran. The United Nations has even dedicated an entire agency, UNRWA to help terrorists turn refugee camps into centres of the Palestinian war machine.

Nowhere else on earth do terrorists get so much help from the Free World and beyond.

How are they spending our money?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTGbP55HGi8

Who kicked who out of their "rightful home" exactly? No possibility that Arabs have and continue to be kicked out of their rigtful home then? Lets hope the Danes don't come round demanding Northern England eh? I come to this issue as a neutral who is neither Jew nor Arab nor Muslim. From what direction do you come at it? My concerns are for a peaceful solution that recognises the rights of all and for the future of the planet should this conflict ever escalate to the point where nuclear weapons are at risk of being employed.

As for Ben Haim ,if he's good enough I'll be glad to sign him and that's all I care about.

[Majiball]

Lets hope the Danes don't come round demanding Northern England eh?

Scotlands first in the queue for that.

[thenodrog]

................. You cannot do the same, you place the blame squarely on the Muslims for all these problems, without realising that had the British not signed the Balfour Declaration, had the Western forces not kicked the Palestinians out of their own homes and made them live in squalour, that would have removed the root cause for much of these problems.

C'mon the world was in post war upheavel at that time, it was a very different place then to now as you must surely know. Whilst we were 'kicking out those palestinians Stalin was busily sectioning eatern europe into the warsaw pact countries. Did he have elections in those countries? Did he hell. At the same time he was massacring many times more cossacks and tartars as the total number of Palestinians. Stalin was as anti semitic as Hitler so should we have simply abandoned eastern european jews to his murderous regime too? Time was of the essence we had just finished liberating the jews in the concentration camps and desperately needed to provide a safe haven for them. At the same time the Japs who had behaved admirably of course toward the inhabitants of the countries that their Asian expansionism had incorporated were being blasted out of existence by the new weapons of the US.

The whole planet was being re-shuffled in a very short time so maybe a bit of balance is needed in your thinking.

Anyway what do you reckon about Hughes?

[dave birch]

Is Hughes Welsh?

[Scotty]

AESF will be chuckling away to himself in his padded cell at the way he's managed to divert this topic.

[Gav]

Here's me thinking this was a thread to slag off Hughes talking about other peoples players.......

[tony gale's mic]

My original response to ASE was to agree that it's wrong to ostracise Ben Haim and even more egregious of Hughes to tolerate the selective discrimination of one of his players.

I still think the desert despots will be desperate to offload Ben Haim for their following reasons:

1. To avoid the 'embarrassment' of seeing an Israeli/Jew wearing 'their' shirt and

2. Now that City are out of the FA Cup to avoid criticism and possible censure by leaving Ben Haim back in Manchester when they take City to play in 'sunshine' friendlies over in their nasty little country.

If, like Jan, you're condoning this 'special treatment' for Ben Haim, then shame on you.

I also would not be surprised if Ben Haim is thrown in to the RSC deal, with a golden handshake for the former to compensate for the inevitable pay cut at Ewood.

As for your obsessive antipathy toward Israel:

"…What would your reactions be as you saw the country next door, who kicked you out of your rightful home, suddenly prosper as it became awash with Western funding?"

So it's true; sooner or later, the tactics of terrorism work.

You recite the same desultory mantra (or sura) of the Saudi trained British Imam. You're not 'condoning' it. All the same Israel/the West/America did 'have it coming'.

Why weren't you hawking your conscience from forum to forum when Palestinian leaders were alligning themselves with the most despicable regimes on earth (first Saddam Hussein, now Ahmadinejad) and transforming their classrooms into indoctrination centres for child martyrdom?

As for your 'Western funding' claim, you're repeating Arabist dogma. Israel could comfortably do without American 'aid'. Denuded of natural resources, Israel survives on its wits. It has a thriving Hi-Tec, financial and manufacturing sector. Most American 'funding' is accounted for in weapons purchases, which then funnels back into the U.S. economy. It amounts to much less than 2% of total Israeli GDP.

The Palestinians on the other hand are awash with Western funding: European, American, Japanese etc... Then you've got to throw in the odd dinar here and there from the Gulf Arabs and that benevolent patron and philosophical inspiration of the people of Gaza - Iran. The United Nations has even dedicated an entire agency, UNRWA to help terrorists turn refugee camps into centres of the Palestinian war machine.

Nowhere else on earth do terrorists get so much help from the Free World and beyond.

How are they spending our money?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTGbP55HGi8

No actually I don't agree with the Ben Haim issue. It's hardly an obsessive antipathy, but there's a clear injustice there which you refuse to acknowledge. Why won't Israel stick to the 1967 borders? The whole creation of Israel was unjust, but going back to a one state solution would hardly be practical. But Israel continues to expand into the West Bank and Gaza. Why can't they just stick to their borders? How is it fair that the people of Gaza are crammed into the most densely populated area on earth?

The United Nations has even dedicated an entire agency, UNRWA to help terrorists turn refugee camps into centres of the Palestinian war machine.

If that's not reactionary propoganda I don't know what is. The UN has set up the UNRWA to help the 4 million + refugees who were displaced from their homes and lost their livelihoods as a result of the events of '48. Or don't you think they deserve assistance? They provide health care, social services etc to these people. Yes there's terrorist factions in areas of Palestine, we knew this much already. But saying the UN have dedicated an agency to help terrorists is exactly the kind of claptrap that comes out of the pro-Israeli camp.

This is a very telling article.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/0...srael-palestine

I would say being condemned by an Israeli Oxford professor of International Relations who once served in the I.D.F. is about as damning criticism as you can get. But still deluded souls like yourself and theno (well there could be a systematic massacre of every Muslim worldwide and theno would still say they had it coming) still choose to side with the Israelis. It may well be published in the Guardian but it's who it's written by thats the most important factor.

[tony gale's mic]

C'mon the world was in post war upheavel at that time, it was a very different place then to now as you must surely know. Whilst we were 'kicking out those palestinians Stalin was busily sectioning eatern europe into the warsaw pact countries. Did he have elections in those countries? Did he hell. At the same time he was massacring many times more cossacks and tartars as the total number of Palestinians. Stalin was as anti semitic as Hitler so should we have simply abandoned eastern european jews to his murderous regime too? Time was of the essence we had just finished liberating the jews in the concentration camps and desperately needed to provide a safe haven for them. At the same time the Japs who had behaved admirably of course toward the inhabitants of the countries that their Asian expansionism had incorporated were being blasted out of existence by the new weapons of the US.

The whole planet was being re-shuffled in a very short time so maybe a bit of balance is needed in your thinking.

Anyway what do you reckon about Hughes?

Surely they could have been absorbed into several different countries? There's many safe havens where they could have gone and there was absolutely no need to create said "homeland" for them.

Nice ducking out of the rest of my post though, especially the part when I question how you'd feel.

I find it hilarious that you say I need a bit of balance. I've accepted that HAMAS are in the wrong too, and there's various aspects of the Muslim world which I find very unsettling. But you refuse to acknowledge they have any right to feel the way they do about the situation, as shown by the fact that you absolutely ignored the crux of my points.

Mind you, maybe the Israeli ex-IDF Oxford professor I quoted above also needs perspective? Clearly he's a rabid anti-Semite...

[BuckyRover]

Surely they could have been absorbed into several different countries? There's many safe havens where they could have gone and there was absolutely no need to create said "homeland" for them.

Nice ducking out of the rest of my post though, especially the part when I question how you'd feel.

I find it hilarious that you say I need a bit of balance. I've accepted that HAMAS are in the wrong too, and there's various aspects of the Muslim world which I find very unsettling. But you refuse to acknowledge they have any right to feel the way they do about the situation, as shown by the fact that you absolutely ignored the crux of my points.

Mind you, maybe the Israeli ex-IDF Oxford professor I quoted above also needs perspective? Clearly he's a rabid anti-Semite...

Don't try and discuss with thenodrog about the validity of any grievances that the Palestinians may have. He already has his stance and no evidence is going that change that.

[Ninjathunder]

I've just come on here to catch up on the Hughes comments and I'm stunned that a political / religious debate that has absolutely nothing to do with Mark Hughes or Blackburn Rovers should be allowed to continue unmoderated for so long. Although a perfectly legitimate debate for some other website, it really has no place in a football messagboard, and given that ICBINF no longer permits political/race/religious discussion it should be booted off here.

[Eddie]

The debate is very interesting, but I don't think this is the proper topic for it. Moving it to ICBINF would seem to make sense, although it would then be closed...

[speeeeeeedie]

The debate is very interesting, but I don't think this is the proper topic for it. Moving it to ICBINF would seem to make sense, although it would then be closed...

Agreed. Move to the other forum. I'll add this to speed up the shut down process:Protest Marches against Israel in East Lancs this weekend.. Over to you Theno.

Isn't Hughes a to$$ pot though?

[leftfooter]

I've just come on here to catch up on the Hughes comments and I'm stunned that a political / religious debate that has absolutely nothing to do with Mark Hughes or Blackburn Rovers should be allowed to continue unmoderated for so long. Although a perfectly legitimate debate for some other website, it really has no place in a football messagboard, and given that ICBINF no longer permits political/race/religious discussion it should be booted off here.

I am happy to give TGM (unlike Jan & Mattyboy666) credit for finally acknowledging the simple fact that Ben Haim should not be singled out for discriminatory behaviour as a result of his ethnicity or nationality .

It's a pity that the owners of Manchester City and and Mark Hughes do not see at that way.

Yes we did go around the houses to get there, but the initial post by AESF that started this conflagration was on that very topic.

As Ben Haim is likely to be a makeweight in the RSC deal, the subsequent debate regarding Ben Haim has everything to do wtth both Hughes and Rovers.

[simcla]

Some people say that Nickos thread goes off topic - I think that this thread needs a new name! and strictly speaking palestinians are semites too.

[American]

Drog, for all of your complaining about Hamas, you would be up in arms if people failed to recognise a BNP government. What Hamas believes is no different than what they believe, they just have different groups that they hate.

[OscarRaven]

I presume we can look forward to the thread being re-titled?

or closed

[tony gale's mic]

or closed

Thanks Ste.

Seriously unless you had some burning points to make on this Hughes topic (which you could've made anyway), then I don't see your problem. It's not like anything offensive has been said here. It's been a good discussion which thanks to certain rules we couldn't have made a topic about in the other section.

[blue phil]

strictly speaking palestinians are semites too.

Both semites AND anti-semites !!

No wonder they keep blowing themselves up

[tony gale's mic]

Hilarious.

[blue phil]

Well it amuses me .....

[herbergeehh]

This conflict is too complex to discuss without writing about two hundred pages, and - for me anyway - too depressing to make jokes about. Just wanted to point out, as I see some has done earlier, that these slaughters is done by Israelites, not Jews. A Jew (per definition) is someone with a Jewish mother (or a convert), making "the Jews" a group of people in different colors and different religions. And that Mark Hughes, for all his crap, is Welsh and as far as I know, does not have a Jewish mother.

[DeadlyDirk]

Boo hoo, Hughes has had some injuries and is making yet more excuses.

Missing vital players such as Bojinov who correct me if I'm wrong never played last season either. Johnson, who when he has been fit he doesn't pick him anymore, the only one I agree with is Petrov who was handy on the left, that Robinho lad has done alright though as a replacement.

I can't remember who brought it up but I still love the comment a few days ago that when Hughes left us he said he wanted to work with world class players, now he is proceeding to try and buy Bellamy and Roque, who both played under him!!

Another bid rejected for Bellamy, haha

[neekoy]

This conflict is too complex to discuss without writing about two hundred pages, and - for me anyway - too depressing to make jokes about. Just wanted to point out, as I see some has done earlier, that these slaughters is done by Israelites, not Jews. A Jew (per definition) is someone with a Jewish mother (or a convert), making "the Jews" a group of people in different colors and different religions. And that Mark Hughes, for all his crap, is Welsh and as far as I know, does not have a Jewish mother.

It's actual been done by the Israeli's, and slaughter is a strong word for defending yourself.

but anywho