[Archived] 20% Warnock

[Hughesy]

Warnock got a better pay deal playing for a good club and we got a shitload of money for him, which we used to buy a good replacement for him and pay off existing debts. Sounds like a win-win to me.

Agree totally.

Except id replace good, with 'better'.

[AggyBlue]

Agree totally.

Except id replace good, with 'better'.

You think Villa are a 'better' club than Rovers Hughsey?

[den]

Warnock got a better pay deal playing for a good club and we got a shitload of money for him, which we used to buy a good replacement for him and pay off existing debts. Sounds like a win-win to me.

How much did we pay off the debts Miker, Hughesy?

[unluckymorton]

You think Villa are a 'better' club than Rovers Hughsey?

Villa are a bigger club, pay bigger wages, have a multi millionaire backer, have a better fan base and have more chance of winning trophies than we do, so yes they are a better club for a player to sign for.

For me, born and bread in Blackburn, there is no better club than my beloved Rovers. But sadly that's not the case for the players on the books.

[Miker]

How much did we pay off the debts Miker, Hughesy?

Go find Walker's interview and read it, I don't remember the figures, I'm not the club's accountant.

I'm pretty sure Hughesy was talking about Chimbonda being a 'better' signing than Warnock, rather than Villa being a better club than Rovers. Although technically Villa are better. This was a club that was challenging the top four last season and will be doing so again this season as well. Our team is not yet ready to be in that position though and doesn't have Villa's finances or fanbase to really be on the same level currently. That's just reality.

I always thought Warnock was a great player and was sad to see him go, but Chimbonda is a good replacement, so it's not like the switch has left me depressed or devastated. Quite the opposite, in fact.

[den]

Go find Walker's interview and read it, I don't remember the figures, I'm not the club's accountant.

You made the statement not me.

Well I just thought that you said it was a great deal because we paid off some of the debts with the money? The debate on here has been that the Warnock money has been used to pay Salgardo's wages - no? Didn't JW himself say something along those lines?

[joey_big_nose]

You made the statement not me.

Well I just thought that you said it was a great deal because we paid off some of the debts with the money? The debate on here has been that the Warnock money has been used to pay Salgardo's wages - no? Didn't JW himself say something along those lines?

Not just Salgado's wages but others as well. The way JW talked about it was that there was a 5m hole in our wage structure which the Warnock money filled. If we hadn't sold Warnock we would have either have to finish in the league higher to make up the difference or take out further loans or sell other players. No debt was paid off.

The main reason for this hole to appear in our accounts, I suppose, is general wage inflation, the cost of sacking Ince and co, and finishing down the league.

Pretty depressing.

Salgado specifically is probably, best case, on 20k a week. That is 1 million a year. Worst case is 40K which is 2m a year. To be honest, while most of the other signings have been great, it seems an absolute waste of money whatever it is.

[Mr. E]

The only way Villa have become "better" is because players like Warnock take their money and choose them over us.

But the facts? We have won the premiership, they have not. We have won a cup this decade, they have not. Their European glory is ancient history, and this decade they have not done any better in Europe then we have - even though season after season everyone says they are "champions league material" while we are "relegation-to-mid-table fodder".

Same with Spurs - it looks like they have finally got it right, but that's just because they have endless cash to spend on players and managers willing to jump ship at the blink of an eye even when they fail season after season after season.

Basically put - if players like Warnock had some loyalty towards the clubs that made their careers, Aston Villa and Spurs would not be getting chance after chance every season to correct their mistakes. So that's why cheering Warnock does not make 100% sense to me. If he prefers the money than our club - ok, his choice, but what message exactly are the people who still clap for him sending?

* I know that Warnock himself isn't the best example since Chimbonda is indeed better, but this a rare bit of fortune.

[thenodrog]

You made the statement not me.

Well I just thought that you said it was a great deal because we paid off some of the debts with the money? The debate on here has been that the Warnock money has been used to pay Salgardo's wages - no? Didn't JW himself say something along those lines?

Wouldn't Salgado's wages be taken from what would have been Warnocks wages rather than from his transfer fee? That would be more in keeping with our past dealings. One out one in since we were promoted.

[den]

Wouldn't Salgado's wages be taken from what would have been Warnocks wages rather than from his transfer fee? That would be more in keeping with our past dealings. One out one in since we were promoted.

No.

" And not surprisingly wages are running very similar year on year.

So we have filled the resulting £5m hole with the difference in transfer fees between Stephen and Pascal.

Plus here's the link that tells Miker and Hughesy, that Warnock's transfer fee didn't actually pay off any of the club's debts.

Williams interview.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Basically put - if players like Warnock had some loyalty towards the clubs that made their careers, Aston Villa and Spurs would not be getting chance after chance every season to correct their mistakes. So that's why cheering Warnock does not make 100% sense to me. If he prefers the money than our club - ok, his choice, but what message exactly are the people who still clap for him sending?

How do you know that Warnock forced the move ? Seemed to me that it was a mutual decision - Sam thought he could get Chimbonda and Selgado - and Williams saw an opportunity to plug a hole in the wages budget.

I will always be grateful to Warnock - possibly our best left back since Le Saux - who I will always forgive his errors - because he always gave 100%.

As for the money - if somebody offered you more money to work for another company - would you say no thanks ? I doubt it.

[Mr. E]

How do you know that Warnock forced the move ? Seemed to me that it was a mutual decision - Sam thought he could get Chimbonda and Selgado - and Williams saw an opportunity to plug a hole in the wages budget.

I will always be grateful to Warnock - possibly our best left back since Le Saux - who I will always forgive his errors - because he always gave 100%.

As for the money - if somebody offered you more money to work for another company - would you say no thanks ? I doubt it.

If your girlfriend left you for another man who was richer, would you think poorly of her or would you be perfectly fine with it and applaud her decision?

[Mr. E]

There's a phrase for that... "Realistic Ambition".

The clubs with money to spend are going to be looking for trophies. We cannot compete on a level playing field in that manner so players are obviously going to look where the trophies might end up at.

That's an awful analogy Mr. E! If she's only arsed about money then you were with the wrong girl in the first place.

But the one comparing Rovers to "just another company" is a better anaology?

I wonder if some people on this website, like you, really have any passion towards Rovers or do you treat the club as just another sidedish, like your favourite menu at McDonalds or something. You know, "just another company".

Modern football, illustrated by how supporters have changed, shows just how far the integrity of this sport has fallen.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

But the one comparing Rovers to "just another company" is a better anaology?

I wonder if some people on this website, like you, really have any passion towards Rovers or do you treat the club as just another sidedish, like your favourite menu at McDonalds or something. You know, "just another company".

Modern football, illustrated by how supporters have changed, shows just how far the integrity of this sport has fallen.

I stand by the analogy - to supporters like myself who have supported the same club for nearly 30 years Rovers will never be "just another company" - but to footballers I would say it is. Yes they have affinity to the clubs (first result I looked for etc.), but ultimately it is a job for them. Even the likes of Dunn and Derbyshire have moved on from Rovers to pursue they careers. They will always be supporters of the club - but it is their living and they had to move on to gain first team football or escape a manager they didn't get on with. Modern football is a long way removed from the days of Douglas and Clayton - but lets remember that there was a minimum wage at one point that helped smaller clubs like Rovers keep their big stars from the clutches of the richer clubs.

Given the chance of £120k a week at Chelsea or £40k at Rovers - you would play for Rovers ?

In modern times I can only think of one exception - Le Tissier - who showed great loyality to Southampton - especially when Uncle Jack came calling. But even then the money and differences in wages was small compared to today.

[mellison24]

Ignore. Case of eejit-ism

[gumboots]

Ignore. Case of eejit-ism

Too much student life????

[mellison24]

Too much student life????

Too much karaoke. Just did a rendition of 'never forget', 'vindaloo', '500miles' and 'falling apart at the seams' hahahaha

[joey_big_nose]

But the one comparing Rovers to "just another company" is a better anaology?

I wonder if some people on this website, like you, really have any passion towards Rovers or do you treat the club as just another sidedish, like your favourite menu at McDonalds or something. You know, "just another company".

Modern football, illustrated by how supporters have changed, shows just how far the integrity of this sport has fallen.

You can pretend that it is the culture thats different if you like, and say if you put that money into football in the 1950s people would still of had the 'integrity' to not move clubs. But that just isn't true. If hundreds of millions of pounds were flying around the league in the 1960s and Bryan Douglas had been offered four times what Rovers could offer to go and play for Manchester Utd would he have done it?

As much as the man is a legend the answer is yes. You would have to be mental otherwise. The demise of "loyalty" is not the result of a degredation in the quality of people but rather the stakes have been raised. The differentials in salary between where you play are much much higher, and there is now a whole industry of agents who are constantly pushing for the best deal for their clients (as is entirely to be expected).

This is life, and something we have benefitted from far more than suffered. Tugay didn't come and play for Blackburn Rovers because he was driving through and suddenly lovestruck with the town. He came because it made sense for his career. Ditto Matt Jansen, ditto Damien Duff, ditto Colin Hendry, ditto Brad Freidel, ditto Alan Shearer.

WHy did it make sense? We had the right money, the right facilities, the right manager and the right standard of football.

I admire Matt Le Tiss for sticking around at Southampton, I do find it a far more attractive thing than these guys who go from club to club, but the other side of the coin is that staying may have cost him a glittering England career and maybe five million pounds in lost earnings, as well as trophies.

ps. Also it is well worth noting that clubs are not loyal to players really. You can point to how we stuck with Jansen and Reid but this is largely down to already being comitted to contracts with them which we couldn't terminate (id we could we would have!). If a player is brilliant for a while he will be feted, but then if he rapidly turns rubbish he will be shown the door in short shrift. Cases in point - Lee Sharp, Michael Ricketts, Paul Gallagher, Alan Mahon.

The clubs and the fans don't give a toss about rubbish players. There is no loyalty there. So why should the players be any different?Pedersen has been "loyal" - how many here want him out? Nelsen is our captain, a great bloke and previously a fine performer, but more than one has said we should "get shut". No one is suggesting we should sort him out with a contract because of all his redeeming non-footballing features.

That's because the supporters are as pragmatic and hard hearted as the players.

[Mr. E]

I stand by the analogy - to supporters like myself who have supported the same club for nearly 30 years Rovers will never be "just another company" - but to footballers I would say it is. Yes they have affinity to the clubs (first result I looked for etc.), but ultimately it is a job for them. Even the likes of Dunn and Derbyshire have moved on from Rovers to pursue they careers. They will always be supporters of the club - but it is their living and they had to move on to gain first team football or escape a manager they didn't get on with. Modern football is a long way removed from the days of Douglas and Clayton - but lets remember that there was a minimum wage at one point that helped smaller clubs like Rovers keep their big stars from the clutches of the richer clubs.

Given the chance of £120k a week at Chelsea or £40k at Rovers - you would play for Rovers ?

In modern times I can only think of one exception - Le Tissier - who showed great loyality to Southampton - especially when Uncle Jack came calling. But even then the money and differences in wages was small compared to today.

Which makes applauding Warnock all the more befuddling. If he's just another guy doing his job, and finds no more passion or loyalty in his job than sorting out tax returns or flipping a burger at McDonalds, why would you cheer him? Heck, why would you even cheer players playing for Rovers? They're not doing it because they want the club to succeed, they're not "giving it their all" for the fans, they are simply "working for a company" and looking for a promotion somewhere else. Warnock may have done a good job in his matches while playing for Rovers, but as you say he did it simply so that he could get out as soon as he can. You can chant the name of the club, but why support individual players at all? It makes absolutely no sense. Do you go around cheering the milk man if he's doing a good job?

But I think this question ends everything:

Given the chance of £120k a week at Chelsea or £40k at Rovers - you would play for Rovers ?

I honestly cannot believe someone who calls himself a fan of a club can ask this. It's a bit shocking to me that this is how far some footballing "supporters" have fallen.

The answer is that not only would I not join Chelsea, I would ask that my pay be drastically cut so that resources can go somewhere else in the club. There is no possible reason why I would want or need even half of 40k a week. For me, playing for Rovers (if I was that good) would be an honor and a dream, not a "job".

[joey_big_nose]

I honestly cannot believe someone who calls himself a fan of a club can ask this. It's a bit shocking to me that this is how far some footballing "supporters" have fallen.

The answer is that not only would I not join Chelsea, I would ask that my pay be drastically cut so that resources can go somewhere else in the club. There is no possible reason why I would want or need even half of 40k a week. For me, playing for Rovers (if I was that good) would be an honor and a dream, not a "job".

There must be over 2000 professional footballers in the UK. Over the years I have been following football there must have been 20000 who have passed in and out of getting paid to play. I have never heard of anyone doing what your suggesting! Has anyone done that ever? I know people have deferred or waived wages if the club was in extreme duress. But to take massively less than their deserved share if the club was profitable!?

Has that ever happend anywhere in any era? Maybe I am missing something?

If you actually found yourself realistically in that situation, surrounded by other people who you could be better than earning millions you would voluntarily say - 'you know what I'll take a tenth of what he is having'? I imagine the novelty of being holier than thou would wear off after a bit. Especially if you had been dropped for what you saw as unfairly, or if you didn't like the manager, or if the supporters started giving you a ton of abuse.

Maybe I'm wrong, but if yours was a feasible position someone would have done it by now, surely!? Or maybe you are jsut on a different plane of self sacrifice?

[Blueandwhitemike]

Didn't even Bryan Douglas say he might have been interested in going to Spurs if he'd been allowed?

Lots of people feel some kind of loyalty to their job/company, I know I have done, some are even passionate about what they do, doesn't mean they won't change job and go for one with a lot more money and better career opportunities.

But if I were on £40k a week at Rovers I wouldn't move for money, as a fan.

Warnock did nothing wrong in my book, and for the most part spoke very positively about the club. And I thought I read somewhere, after the game, he said he didn't realise how tough it would be playing against us, another good comment.

[thenodrog]

Tom Finney was lauded as Mr Preston but truth is that he admitted on tele that when Genoa offered hom 10k pa (when the max wage here was £1250 pa or 25 quid a week) he asked the chairman to let him go. The chairman said 'No Tom sorry but we need you here' and that was the end of the matter.

Truth is that the only players who don't move on are usually crap and overpaid. They always stick like the proverbial to a blanket.

[unluckymorton]

If your girlfriend left you for another man who was richer, would you think poorly of her or would you be perfectly fine with it and applaud her decision?

Your girlfriend is obviously different to mine, that's not a real comparison Mr. E. If you think your Mrs would do that your better dealing with it now rather than when she's done it!!!

I know if I got an offer from a competitor I would definitely mull it over, if they doubled my money I'd be off like a shot!

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

If your girlfriend left you for another man who was richer, would you think poorly of her or would you be perfectly fine with it and applaud her decision?

It would all depend - as this would obviously leave the way open for me to transfer in a new, younger Swedish or possibly French girlfriend. She possibly wouldn't be as expensive - but as long as she played with passion

[Hughesy]

You think Villa are a 'better' club than Rovers Hughsey?

Sorry I meant better player in Chimbonda - not the club bit...

How much did we pay off the debts Miker, Hughesy?

I was agreeing with good deal for warnock, good replacement - not the debt bit. Sorry.