[Archived] Sheff Utd Win Tribunal

[philipl]

The FA have submitted a letter to the CAS panel considering whether the CAS could consider a West Ham appeal pointing out the the FA rules give the FA no right to recognise any decision reached by the CAS.

I am not surprised this has happened because as a member of the FA and it's constituted bodies Sheffield United had every right to seel clarification of this point and frankly to stick the FA in the dock alongside West Ham for breaching their own rules had they done otherwise.

Quoting:

"The Premier League are also on a war footing with the FA for opening up the Tevez can of worms when their disputes process and two court hearings had declared the matter closed."

That is possibly significant- as I pointed out, West Ham were fined £5.5m for breaking the rules up until the judgement was delivered with two games remaining.

The arbitration clearly records that West Ham then committed a whole suite of new offences AFTER being fined. If the Premier League consider the matter to have been re-opened then surely West Ham should be charged for breaking Premier League rules a second time?

For what it's worth Fulham fans think they should sue West Ham as well. I don't know what for exactly but I certainly think both Wigan and Charlton have a slam dunk case against West Ham for recovering place money- it is 100% the same argument as for Sheffield United except they lost £500K place prize money, not Premier League status as well.

Boy there is some bitterness on the West Ham fans' sites tonight. Those guys just don't get it.

[philipl]

If West Ham's owners want to sell the club quickly, they are going to have to take a deep bath because the Sheff U situation isn't going to be resolved in much of a rush.

The High Court action to stop the reference to CAS will be decided before Christmas.

This in my opinion succinctly summarises the arbitration judgement:

West Ham had argued that they had already been punished by the Premier League - they were fined £5.5m - and were merely following league instructions. The arbitration panel decided, however, that the Hammers had not abided by their pledge to end all third-party agreements in relation to Tevez.

The Arbitration panel in the meantime has met again and ordered Sheffield United to open their books to audit in order to justify the £50m claim. That puts settling the amount of compensation back to March 2009.

[thenodrog]

West Ham had argued that they had already been punished by the Premier League - they were fined £5.5m - and were merely following league instructions.

If that had been upheld would that have paved the way for Sheff Utd to pursue action / damages from the PL?

[philipl]

If that had been upheld would that have paved the way for Sheff Utd to pursue action / damages from the PL?

I agree- I think Sheff U managed to manoevre the PL and the FA eventually into a position where they could shoot at either West Ham or the football authorities. West Ham of course then had to take their own risks which West Ham were very cavalier about. There were a couple of statements from Richards/Scudamore that summer which rightly left West Ham to hang alone when they made noises along the lines of "West Ham have told this and if that is what they are doing they are OK" and then "West Ham do that at their own risk".

I wouldn't count against some perversity entering the system but I would say with some confidence that the adjudication of the arbitration will be upheld. In real life it is extremely rare for two parties to sign up to a legally binding arbitration provided for within an over-riding structure (in this case the rules of the FA) and for the resulting adjudication to be over-turned subsequently.

West Ham are fighting on a ridiculously narrow point- that it was not the role of the adjudicators to assess whether Tevez influenced the course of their season which resulted in survival. The rest of the adjudication is extremely damning of West Ham in all respects.

You come back to the proverbial man on the Clapham Omnibus- ask him if Tevez kept West Ham up that season and I think we all know what the answer is.

[67splitscreen]

I agree- I think Sheff U managed to manoevre the PL and the FA eventually into a position where they could shoot at either West Ham or the football authorities. West Ham of course then had to take their own risks which West Ham were very cavalier about. There were a couple of statements from Richards/Scudamore that summer along the lines of "West Ham have told this and if that is what they are doing they are OK" and then "West Ham do that at their own risk".

I wouldn't count against some perversity entering the system but I would say with some confidence that the adjudication of the arbitration will be upheld. In real life it is extremely rare for two parties to sign up to a legally binding adjudication provided for within an over-riding structure (in this case the rules of the FA) and for the resulting adjudication to be over-turned subsequently.

West Ham are fighting on a ridiculously narrow point- that it was not the role of the adjudicators to assess whether Tevez influenced the course of their season which resulted in survival. The rest of the adjudication is extremely damning of West Ham in all respects.

You come back to the proverbial man on the Clapham Omnibus- ask him if Tevez kept West Ham up that season and I think we all know what the answer is.

So when do WHU go into administration?,after Christmas?. Sooner the better, cheating BARSTEWRDS.

[philipl]

So when do WHU go into administration?,after Christmas?. Sooner the better, cheating BARSTEWRDS.

WHam are not in imminent danger.

I understand their operating deficits can be covered by the likely January sales which will be targetted at shifting high earners like Neill and Upson off the books as much as yielding transfer fees.

The Sheff U verdict would be seen as a contingent liability- still until the High Court closes the door to CAS which I think it will as the Judge probably is taking his time to close all possible routes for West Ham.

If it materialises at £50m then West Ham are supposed to be worth £150m so there would appear to be a lot of head room in the enterprise value for it to be sold and the Sheff U settlement be paid from the sale proceeds.

The person who is really sweating on the West Ham situation is the Icelander who in realirt has probably ploughed north of £100m of his own money into it. Unlike certain Americans at clubs in the North West who ploughed other people's money into "their" clubs. Until Liverpool are sold, I still think it looks very precarious.

Back to West Ham, if players are sold, they go down and don't find a rich buyer, I could see west Ham being in great danger of going bust after the parachute payments expire. A bit like the binds Charlton and Southampton now find themselves in.

[philipl]

Change of tune from WHam today.

They are saying they owe Sheff U £4m in damages and not the £50m being claimed.

[thenodrog]

WHam are not in imminent danger.

I understand their operating deficits can be covered by the likely January sales which will be targetted at shifting high earners like Neill and Upson off the books as much as yielding transfer fees.

As I've said on the Lpool thread imo transfer values in January will be depressed based on the financial situation embarrassing certain clubs. Only two of the big 4 are possibly in the market and neither will want those two for a start. The likes of Pompey, Newcastle and WHU who made fairly ordinary players into vast wage earners way beyond their abilities are now out of the game with only Man City likely to buck the trend. I can see some 'stop loss' valuations being agreed to simply in desperation which might just keep the wolves away from the door for a few weeks longer. Any future TV deals will imo now be likely less than previous ones which will exacerbate the situation even more.

[den]

Sheffield United win case to prevent Wham from going to the CAS.

[philipl]

The following could be closer to the truth than the bullish noises being made by West Ham spokemen:

West Ham owner Bjorgolfur Gudmundsson is being urged to sell the club before he is bankrupted by Sheffield United's £30m claim for damages over the Carlos Tevez saga. (Daily Mail)

[thenodrog]

West Ham owner Bjorgolfur Gudmundsson is being urged to sell the club before he is bankrupted by Sheffield United's £30m claim for damages over the Carlos Tevez saga. (Daily Mail)

Is there not a suggestion that he has been already?

[philipl]

Three or four of his vehicles have gone under including the one through which he holds WHU.

I think this is saying efore WHU are bankrupted which would add up to what I have seen of the club's numbers.

[Hughesy]

Wouldnt it be great if they did go bust. 12pts deduction. That would settle them & West Brom, meaning we only need to finish above 1 other team!!

[thenodrog]

Wouldnt it be great if they did go bust. 12pts deduction. That would settle them & West Brom, meaning we only need to finish above 1 other team!!

Wrong smiley. This is the one that fits better...

[LeChuck]

West Brom are a half decent team, they're just absolutely pathetic up front. If they manage to find a goalscorer in January (a Zaki-esque loan signing for example) then I wouldn't say they're a certainty for relegation.

If they do gown though, we should look at their midfielder Borja Valero, bought from Mallorca in the summer. He's a very good player.

[philipl]

Sheff U offer £25m out-of-Court sttlement if West Ham admit culpability. Problem with that is the queue of others- currently 17- waiting to sue West Ham as well.

[Billy Castell]

There are going to be some lawyers with nice new Veyrons, motor yachts and Monaco apartments once this is finally over. I hope they charge by the hour.

[philipl]

West Ham at present do not qualify for a license to enable them t play in Europea competition next season.

It is also worth pointing out that Sheff U winning the play-offs is probably worth a £10m saving to West Ham under the terms agreed in their out of Court settlement which is otherwise worth £25m to Sheff U over five years.

[Hughesy]

West Ham will get around that rule im sure, they get around everything else thanks to Brooking so I dont see why not.

Hopefully Sheff Utd dont come up via the play-offs then, id rather West Ham had to pay out.

[philipl]

Courtesy of the Guardian:

October: West Ham vice-chairman Asgeir Fridgeirsson attacks press reports that Bjorgolfur Gudmundsson's financial crisis will hurt the club: "He has other investments... there's no reason to fear." A senior boardroom source tells the BBC: "There are no implications, no impact for the club. West Ham is protected by Mr Gudmundsson: he has considerable personal wealth."

May: Gudmundsson admits his debt is £301m and West Ham is "on the line": "It's bad. Liability extends to all of my assets. I'm left with the question, what is my position? I must admit: I'm a little lost."

[BlueWhiteDynamite]

I looked through the thread to try and find an answer to my question but could see one.

My question is.... Who owns Carlos Tevez ? and Who are Man Utd paying for the Loan Fee ?

Is he on loan from West Ham, A south American Club or a Company ?

Thanks for anyone who can clear this up in a few words!!

[philipl]

Kia Joorabchian's company "owns" Tevez but Man U hold his registration.

Man U have an agreement that would transfer ownership for £20m+ as part of a total contract signed at the time of Tevez's "transfer" from West Ham worth £40m. Of that, £2m was West Ham's take, and that was only paid at the insistence of the PL with Joorabchian recovering it and more in a subsequent out of Court settleent with West Ham.

[American]

So, what you're saying is that Tevez is owned by a third party....

[philipl]

So, what you're saying is that Tevez is owned by a third party....

Yes

Although Man U have total control over Tevez whilst he is on loan whereas it has become clear that Joorabchian was totally within his rights to withdraw Tevez and Maschiano from West Ham games as he chose fit under the West Ham loan deal.

The regulations have been tightened further so when the Tevez/Man U/Joorabchian loan deal ends there should be no repeats of the structures Liverpool and Man U got OK'd to take the two young Argentinans away from West Ham.

It is ironic that football now needs Burnley to win the Play Off Final to stop West Ham escaping from Tevezgate cheaply- if Sheff U go up, the compensation deal agreed out of Court drops from £25m to £15m. If I were the dingles, I'd be watching the run-up to 25 May very carefully indeed given the way West Ham so sccessfully perverted natural justice thus far.

[philipl]

Total cop-out by the FA on West Ham

On the grounds of insufficient evidence, West Ham got let off the hook for being naughty boys again following the original Tevez fine.

Cannot say I am entirely surprised but once again the leniency of treatment towards West Ham is mind blowing. At least Sheff Utd are getting all of their £25m+ West Ham agreed to pay in compensation for something the FA consider there is insufficient evidence for...