[Archived] Match Preview: Manchester United (october 4, Ewood Park, 17:30)

[super_arran]

Graham re: that scoring system that you are employing. It is out of 20 ..... right?

"Pedersen - 1 Abysmal. Turned attack into defence. No idea where to play. Left Ollson exposed by not communicating. Last game in a Rovers Shirt"

how can you say last game in a rovers shirt? yeh he was # but ollson was equally as #, he pretty much fell over on purpose so he didn't have to chase ronaldo anymore; which led to their second goal.

MGP must be doin something good in training to get his place, you forget how good he can be, he just needs to find his form again.

[herbergeehh]

From Manchester Evening News' ratings:

Referee: Steve Bennett – Didn’t give Reds much but fortunately they didn’t need it. 5

[speeeeeeedie]

We got beat of a far superior side. However we never looked like scoring, I was bored stiff. United bring on Tevez, we bring on Andrews; says it all really. I don't know why some think we have a genuine chance against them. Luck and extreme hard work are the only ways we'll win, and they are one of the fittest teams around by the look of them.

I see JAL has started again. The sooner he/she realises that it's mid table obscurity for Rovers the lower his blood pressure will become.

[Exiled in Toronto]

If anybody needs confirmation that Derbyshire is an impact player for the last 20 mins only this was it.

That was my impression also. Ince has picked him for 3 games now after Derbs' ostentatious finger-pointing after his Fulham goal and Derbs hasn't been doing the biz, or indeed anything like it. You have to take your chances at this level.

Mind you, Roberts was even worse. I hope his missus gives him another slap.

[novella]

I thought for the first half apart from a dodgey decision we held our own. Brown has proved he is an able replacement.

[thenodrog]

As I stated in my earlier posts, the fans need to play a big part in the Ince revolution, watching fans desert the team with 15 minutes left and being outsung by 8000 Man Utd fans when we have 21K is unacceptable. Some people call for more passion from the team but what about the passion from the fans?

Weren't you watching on the tele Imy? If so and if you live locally then thats a bit bloody rich isn't it?

[RoverRich]

"Pedersen - 1 Abysmal. Turned attack into defence. No idea where to play. Left Ollson exposed by not communicating. Last game in a Rovers Shirt"

how can you say last game in a rovers shirt? yeh he was sh*t but ollson was equally as sh*t, he pretty much fell over on purpose so he didn't have to chase ronaldo anymore; which led to their second goal.MGP must be doin something good in training to get his place, you forget how good he can be, he just needs to find his form again.

What?!! When someone with as much pace as Ronaldo cuts across you like that you havent got a chance. Ronaldo bascially tripped him up by cutting across him. Ok so the other option would have been to swing a leg and chop him down from behind ending up booked or possibly worse but you are being a tad harsh on a young lad who has only recently broken into the team with some quality performances. It was his first time playing against one of the top 4, he was up against some of the best players in the world and no doubt he will learn from that and become a better player because of it. How you can defend a consistently poor performer like Pedersen and lay into a young player who has had one bad match is a bit of a joke!

[Plastic Head]

"Pedersen - 1 Abysmal. Turned attack into defence. No idea where to play. Left Ollson exposed by not communicating. Last game in a Rovers Shirt"

how can you say last game in a rovers shirt? yeh he was sh*t but ollson was equally as sh*t, he pretty much fell over on purpose so he didn't have to chase ronaldo anymore; which led to their second goal.

MGP must be doin something good in training to get his place, you forget how good he can be, he just needs to find his form again.

Ollson has been sh!t for 90 minutes...Pedersen for over 2 years.

He is absolutely terrible in every game and I now boo his every touch and will until he goes away.

I think Ince has realised his awfullness and will phase him out now.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

Any player who cant be up for a game versus the scum needs repacing and moving on.

More than half the bloody team didn't seem to be up for it yesterday.....

As you've said earlier, Rovers were reasonably okay for the first 15 or 20 minutes. For the remaining 70 minutes I thought the team were shocking and frankly disgraceful. No passion, no fight and no desire.

It shouldn't matter whether we are playing Man United in the Premiership or Accrington Stanley in a cup match - the team needs to firstly show some desire to win the ball and then to at least play some constructive football going forward. This was sorely lacking yesterday.

My only consolation from the dreadful performance was that at least the scoreline didn't reflect United's dominance. It could easily have been a humiliating 0-6 score or worse. Most fans are probably able to accept getting beaten by United as long as the team give 100% effort and at least show some passion and desire. But I was embarrassed watching the completely inept display for the final 70 minutes.

One or two people seem to be defending the shambles yesterday and saying: "Oh well, we can't compete with teams like United anymore." But it wasn't all that long ago - February 2006 in fact - when we beat United 4-3 at Ewood. The United team had world class players in their side like Ronaldo and Van Nistelrooy, but we still scored four goals before Rio Ferdinand was sent off in the 88th minute.

Yesterday we had just one shot on target for the whole match and Santa Cruz and Roberts were painfully isolated up front. The lack of creativity and lack of fluent passing from Rovers in the second half was an embarrassment.

Mark Hughes said after that 4-3 win over United two years ago: "I thought we were excellent. The players showed great commitment." Commitment was something that was totally lacking yesterday and that to me is unforgivable. We were outplayed, outfought and tactically clueless. A shocking backpass from Samba in the second half summed up the shambles on the pitch.

At the time of posting this - before Sunday's results are known - we've currently conceded more goals than any other team in the Premiership. And by God it could have been a lot worse on Saturday if United had taken their chances. An extremely disappointing performance from Rovers and judging from Paul Ince's interview with the BBC afterwards, he seemed unable to accept or acknowledge how poorly we had played.

If Ince believes that this type of performance from the players is acceptable then we've got problems....

[gumboots]

If Ince believes that this type of performance from the players is acceptable then we've got problems....

I don't think for one minute he thinks it's acceptable but we're back to the discussion we've had loads of times before - does ripping into your team in public actually achieve anything? What he says in private to them, when he gets to see them again is probably very different from what he says to the media. No doubt his language gave Joe Kinnear a run for his money in the dressing room but you don't do it out laoud to the media. They are already not fans of our club - why give them any mor opportunities to have a go?

[brfcs5359]

I want what you're on - sky purple with yellow dots on is it? Possession was about 80/20 Man U. What did you give marks for - the warm up?

I think the anti-Ince supporters are feeding off this result like Man U should be beaten always by Rovers at home. Get real. Rovers with the talent they had did very well. The organisation and style of play was as has been recently, were spot on.

What gets me about those slaqging Rovers is that somehow when we started with Mokeona and tried to play negatively this was acceptable. No it wasn't. I don't want defensive championship players in my team. Ince is right. He organised the team well. We pushed up well(And I sit in the Darwen end of the Riverside which we were defending 1st half) against a strong team who gave everything to win. Until that t*t Bennet decided Man U needed help we were exchanging play on level terms.

If Rooney and Berbatov had started for us and Derbyshire and Pederson for them we would have won that game easily. Simple as. That's why we were good and why Ince is getting the team to start playing in a more powerful way than the Anti-Ince dour defensive stuff. Just watch the move again for Santa Cruz's shot and you'll realise why Ince is potentially a great manager and knows what he is doing.

Bottom line as a team we were good. However silks purse from sows ear can't be made and I am sure we will see a ruthless side to Ince in January that will make his approach to Rovers all the more purposeful. The style and tactics are right. However some (of Hughes) players are clearly earmarked for the exit door as not good enough.

Carry on Mr Ince. You've got it right so far. Best start in 11 years FACT. Hughes 1 win in first 11 games?? I can't wait to see things keep improving.

[den]

I don't think for one minute he thinks it's acceptable but we're back to the discussion we've had loads of times before - does ripping into your team in public actually achieve anything?

Honesty is always the best policy Gumboots. That goes for the manager and the fans. Does telling supporters that we played as well as we can, when they patently didn't, and does telling M/B members not to comment unless it's "positive" actually get anyone, anywhere? Absolutely not.

If the team are poor it has to be said. Likewise if they're good. All this "anti/pro Ince" stuff, is ridiculous.

[Plastic Head]

United were very good yesterday, especially Rooney, Giggs and Fletcher. We were not very good at all. Tugay, Derbyshire and someone else I can't think of.....should not have played yesterday.

The annoying thing is we were beaten by a club full of hugely expensive players bought by money borrowed from the bank.

When the new Premier League rich list comes out I hope we're near the top this time. We are certainly £580M better off than ManU. God I hope it goes titty up for them.

Mind you if it does their fans will just follow someone else who wins most games because they are too feeble minded to cope with defeat on a regular basis.

An indication of the quality of the human social inadequates in the Darwen End yesterday was given by the @#/? with a Dudley Reds flag on I told to "go (in a sexual way) to Argentina if you like it so much" while he was on one his few moronic chants. He said he had been there on a day trip while he was on holiday. When I asked where his holiday was he said Spain.

QED. Care in the community has a lot to answer for at OT.

[gumboots]

Honesty is always the best policy Gumboots. That goes for the manager and the fans. Does telling supporters that we played as well as we can, when they patently didn't, and does telling M/B members not to comment unless it's "positive" actually get anyone, anywhere? Absolutely not.

If the team are poor it has to be said. Likewise if they're good. All this "anti/pro Ince" stuff, is ridiculous.

I'm not suggesting we can't criticise Ince, the team or whoever on here. What I am saying is that managers rarely have a go at their teams in public. When Jewell did last year at Derby lots of people said it was counterproductive. I'm not suggesting for one minute that you shouldn't feel free to have a rant on here - that's one of the things the MB is here for. I'm neither anti nor pro Ince but, whilst you say it's ridiculous, there are plenty on here who are very definitely anti. whether you fall into that category you can decide for yourself.

[John]

Some people seem to be forgetting that we have 3 injuries in midfield to key players for us, and these players Ince would probably play in his starting 11 (well def Dunn & Grella).

[gumboots]

Some people seem to be forgetting that we have 3 injuries in midfield to key players for us, and these players Ince would probably play in his starting 11 (well def Dunn & Grella).

I actually said to my husband when the team and subs went up that thtat must be most of our fit players.

[den]

I'm not suggesting we can't criticise Ince,[/b] the team or whoever on here. What I am saying is that managers rarely have a go at their teams in public. When Jewell did last year at Derby lots of people said it was counterproductive. I'm not suggesting for one minute that you shouldn't feel free to have a rant on here - that's one of the things the MB is here for. I'm neither anti nor pro Ince but, whilst you say it's ridiculous, there are plenty on here who are very definitely anti. whether you fall into that category you can decide for yourself.

You certainly have done in the past GB. Fed up of the negativity I seem to remember, give Ince a chance and all that.

As for me, I voted "totally underwhelmed", simply because I thought he was a nasty person during his playing days, and wasn't convinced he would get the respect from the players that Hughes [for instance] had. I didn't think he would be able to attract the quality of player to Ewood either.

However Gumboots, in 46 yrs of going to Ewood and never having booed a rovers player or manager, I will be overjoyed if he succeeds. So, am I anti, - or Pro? Or maybe neither, - maybe just representative of the majority of rovers fans? You decide.

[1864roverite]

I dont think for one minute there has been any anti Ince feelings muted since we lost to United.

I think all of the negativity points to a lack of a performance by half the Rovers team and thats about it.

Rovers as of minute 16 totally disappeared and sat back inviting United forward.

Rovers midifled neither supported the front men nor did they support the defence when on the back foot.

The Rovers team for 15 minutes were on a level playing field with a united outfit, for the other 75 minutes were were well off the pace. We lacked effort, we lacked spark, we lacked creativity.

To then see Roberts inept efforts as a front man made a lot of people frown.

To then see Tugay, our only hope of a creative pass, be replaced by Andrews and NOT Carlos beggered belief.

Now then, for those who watched Bolton win away at wham.

We saw a team with a work ethic. We saw a team with a spark of creativity, we saw a team play for each other and we saw a team willing to run their socks off to get 3 points. Thats what Bolton did. It is precisely what Rovers didnt do from the 16th minute yesterday.

That is the point we are emphasising, not having a go at the manager.

[John]

On injuries, not doing as badly as some others clubs: English Premier League Injury Table

[dingles staying down 4ever]

To say I'm disappointed after yesterday is an understatement.

Until yesterday I was thinking that Ince had moved on and we were progressing but after yesterday I'm not sure. Ince has to apprecaite that teams have to have play dirty against the top teams especially when we have not got the ball. I agree with those who say some of passing, like the move which lead to Santa Cruz's shot, were good. Unfortunately it did not happen often enough to defend a very poor overall team performance. To blame the referee for the first goal is also not acceptable. A goalkeeper should be strong and take everything in a situation like that.

I thought up until Ronaldo switched wings and attacked Olsson the defence was sound. Olsson then got a bit of chasing but did Rovers change formation to give him some cover. No he took tugay off and removed any creativity we had. Everything had died and needed a spark. It was calling out for Carlos if just to give the crowd a lift.

United have never had an easier game at Ewood,

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

I can't be bothered going through and pointing out tripe like "Tugay/Warnock/Emerton never got over the half way line", so I'll just keep it short.

- I thought Andrews was a sensible choice. Tugay was giving it away every time he got it and he was absolutely knackered. It wasn't a good game to bring Villanueva on. The ball wasn't rolling, he thrives on fast passing and dribbling, he would have been kicking a ball of glue. I think it was a damage limitation thing.

- Brown deserves credit.

- Derbyshire is too weak to play behind the striker.

- Whenever someone got past the defenders, nobody was supporting. The opposite of the Arsenal game, we didn't want to surge forward and let them catch us on the break. We just need to get the balance right.

- We matched them up until their goal. Our heads dropped a little after, but we kept going. After the second it was damage limitation and there was no way back.

I agree with people saying it is United. Champions League winners. With the best player in the world. I also though Berbatov was great for them.

I'm not too downhearted. It's early days, and losing 2-0 to the best team in the world isn't something to be embarassed about. They were incredible.

[tonygreenbank]

Some people seem to be forgetting that we have 3 injuries in midfield to key players for us, and these players Ince would probably play in his starting 11 (well def Dunn & Grella).

Well said John. I totally agree with you. We were beaten fair and square yesterday by a tremendous team who played their best football of the season. To say we didnt compete with them is utter tripe. Of course we did but we were well beaten. I am sure that Ince was not playing his favoured first team. He had to play Warnock in midfield and then sees him get injured after 60 seconds. Only a diabolical decision robs us of parity at halftime. We lose our main goal threat after 60 seconds of the second half and face an uphill struggle after that.

To get beaten is bad enough for me but to read some of the moronic comments by so called fans makes me fear for the future. At no time last night did I see any of our lads not trying and I include Pedersen in that but we totally outplayed by a great side.

[gumboots]

You certainly have done in the past GB. Fed up of the negativity I seem to remember, give Ince a chance and all that.

I genuinely felt that much of the criticism earlier was as much about not wanting Ince as manager rather than criticism of his management and that it was far too early to make reasonable criticism of his performance based on a couple of games. He's still not had long and i personally don't want to criticise but I do feel there is at least more to discuss and more evidence of the way he wants his teams to play. I could see little genuine evidence for the volume of negativity on here at that time. I just want him to be given a fair chance to manage the team and jumping on every mistake at the start of the guy's premier league management career was hardly that. I certainly don't think he's done everything right so far but I don't think he's getting as much wrong as some seem to.

[MarkBRFC71]

Yesterday was the second half of the Arsenal game extended to 70 minutes. No commitment, and little effort from the players, and no motivation or tactical nous from the bench. From the frankly pathetic performance in the 2nd half, I can only assume Ince's halftime teamtalk must have gone along the lines of "that's it lads, you've lost. Just stroll about for the rest of the game and pretend to be interested".

I've never seen the crowd as flat as they were yesterday and against the Arse - but there was absolutely nothing, not even a tasty challenge to shout about. It was another embarrassing capitulation.

Pedersen should never be allowed to disgrace the shirt again, and gets worse every week. And maybe now people will FINALLY realise that Derbyshire is just plain not good enough for the Premiership - other than to come off the bench for the last 5 minutes of games. He looked like a lost little boy - again.

I'm no Ince hater - I hope he gets it right - but he seems unable to motivate players. Under Hughes we may have lost yesterday, but we would have at least made Man U work for it - it was probably the easiest away game they've had in years.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

When we started with Tugay and Warnock in centre midfield it was obvious that one of them, probably Warnock, would have to get forward in support of the strike force. We could hardly play with four at the back and two directly in front of those four and expect anything but the hammering we eventually got. Did anybody else see either consistently advance into the opposition half because I didn't !