[Archived] Fans Forum

[OJRovers]

Rev - sorry to push, but could you please share your opinions on the poor PR?

- Ince's first signing: Fowler...

- Multi Faith room

- Winterburn's interview saying he was our part-time defence coach, who had not started yet (what had he been doing??) and not even going to be present at games. Published in the LT a few days after we lost 0-4 to Arsenal and a week after 4-1 at WHAM.

-No comeback from the club after being blatently used as a Man City PR exercise - in the week they were meant to be going under, they came out with a 'bid' for RSC, could never have the money in place, just used to calm their fickle fans at Rovers expense.

I think JW is right that every club has its fair share of negative PR, but it seems that Rovers don't have our fair share of POSITIVE PR.

We don't want to see made up stories in the papers every day about us signing everyone (A-la Spurs) but there is rarely a positive piece written in the nationals about Rovers.

[RevidgeBlue]

-No comeback from the club after being blatently used as a Man City PR exercise - in the week they were meant to be going under, they came out with a 'bid' for RSC, could never have the money in place, just used to calm their fickle fans at Rovers expense.

I don't want to answer points on Paul Agnew's behalf but on that one we can't control what Citeh do and to play devil's advocate, did the City Chief Exec Gary Cook not publicly concede that Hughes had been told we were unhappy with his continued interest?

[only2garners]

I don't want to answer points on Paul Agnew's behalf but on that one we can't control what Citeh do and to play devil's advocate, did the City Chief Exec Gary Cook not publicly concede that Hughes had been told we were unhappy with his continued interest?

To add to that Paul said last night that a player leaving story is always more interesting than a player staying. You can guarantee that the Roque to Man City (and maybe other clubs) will start again soon ready for January and there's nothing Rovers can do about it.

[DingleBaiter]

So this "waiting for a part" malarky never come off then I take it. Ah well at least it will be sorted eventually! Cheers for the update Rev, maybe we could get some specific's (people's issues) regarding the club PR together for the next forum meeting and Paul Agnew will have something to go off as in people's gripe's etc.

Scroll back to earlier in thread, there's a draft of what PA and co address & answer to placate the issue.

If they were doing their job properly, they wouldn't feel the need to have to ask for evidence for specific examples would they? It's not a case of article A, or B etc. It's more the underlying way they operate - which they seem loathe to want to explain what their stance is?

We seem an easy target - why?

We often make more of a Horlicks of when we try to 'manage' PR - the dreaded Multi-excuse room for instance.

Like JW used to say 'think big'..... the only element of operation I see PA doing at present is keeping Andy Nield in a job by pumping poor stories out to the local rag. The more this happens, the more we look second rate.

[only2garners]

We seem an easy target - why?

No we're not. Every Premier League club is an easy target for any journalist or internet poster putting two and two together and getting at least five. Those clubs with players who might be coveted by others are particularly vulnerable to unsubstantiated rumours. As I said above we will get it again soon with Roque unless he picks up a bad injury. Wigan are currently getting it in spades with both Heskey and Zaki. Bolton aren't much at the moment but only because no one covets their players. They were last year with Anelka. Even United could not control the Ronaldo story in the Summer - they kept saying he was staying but no one wopruld print it because it wasn't the story they wanted. In this situation the clubs can't win - putting out a response only encourages more. Then when something has a grain of truth in it and the club don't comment everyone will draw the obvious conclusion.

[Mr Creosote]

To add to that Paul said last night that a player leaving story is always more interesting than a player staying. You can guarantee that the Roque to Man City (and maybe other clubs) will start again soon ready for January and there's nothing Rovers can do about it.

I once asked a local freelance sports journo whether or not there is in agenda in regard to way certain publications report on matters pertaining to Rovers and his blunt answer was "yes".

Clubs of our ilk have been targetted by the tabloids in particular for as long as I can remember and I have always wanted somebody, Rovers especially, to stand up for themselves. I take the legal avenue has been explored but has found to be a dead end? Sad if thats the case, little wonder some lazy, useless "journalists" with a grudge get away with some of the drivle they produce.

[Hughesy]

PR Blunder 1 - Warnock to Newcastle - Apparently no truth in it (yet we only found out for deffinate from the man himself last week).

Other than that, as a general rule -

Rovers stories should all be published via the Lancashire telegraph. All the true stories should be in there as exclusive - with real quotes from players/ managers/ agents/ JW so that fans have something to believe, otherwise it just causes distress among fans.

IF rovers dont agree with a story then they should give the truth to the Lancs telegraph. They should of given them an exclusive interview about City, saying how despite the media rubbish of £12m+ they only offered a pathetic £8m in an attempt to unsettle him, they should then of said he isnt for sale, he wont be sold, and they can gaurantee the fans that (That may of sold a few more season tickets), and that Roque is a true professional, unlike Mark Hughes and his cronies.

Media can be used both ways. Lets use it to our advantage.

[Ozz]

Not too sure where to put this...but I think it was an issue raised at a previous FF discussion. Regarding flags at Ewood, I took the photo below on Saturday at the Reebok and they appear not to have an issue of draping flags from the upper tier, which I think was said to be a no-no due to obscuring the boxes.

Looks quite good though eh? Makes it look a little less sanitised.

[brightonrover]

The most obvious PR blunder was the way that the MFPR issue was handled which ended in what could easily have escalated into mindless violence - did no one at the FF meeting bring this up when asked?

I'm all for the club having a reputation of not reacting to tabloid tittle tattle about this or that player leaving but surely a more proactive approach might just help to put a bit of a block on some of the stories.

It's pretty obvious that Ince isn't a skilled media operator so, until he finds his feet, he needs to be briefed well and perhaps even trained in how to deal with it.

Why do the Rovers seem to be just about the only club in the Premier League without their own in-house PR team?

Does it not seem a bit fishy that Andy Nield has gone from a job at the LT where he wouldn't ask awkward questions of the club straight into a new post at PAPR?

[only2garners]

The most obvious PR blunder was the way that the MFPR issue was handled which ended in what could easily have escalated into mindless violence - did no one at the FF meeting bring this up when asked?

We were not consulted beforehand - we let the club know of our disappointment at the September meeting. The room has subsequently been moved

I'm all for the club having a reputation of not reacting to tabloid tittle tattle about this or that player leaving but surely a more proactive approach might just help to put a bit of a block on some of the stories.

It's pretty obvious that Ince isn't a skilled media operator so, until he finds his feet, he needs to be briefed well and perhaps even trained in how to deal with it.

The club's view is that Paul does need some help and he is getting it, but that he is at least as good as Mark Hughes was at the same time in his career

Why do the Rovers seem to be just about the only club in the Premier League without their own in-house PR team?

PAPR effectively acts as rovers press team. 75% of their work is for Rovers. They have a contract with the club which is up for renewal each year

Does it not seem a bit fishy that Andy Nield has gone from a job at the LT where he wouldn't ask awkward questions of the club straight into a new post at PAPR?

[AggyBlue]

Not too sure where to put this...but I think it was an issue raised at a previous FF discussion. Regarding flags at Ewood, I took the photo below on Saturday at the Reebok and they appear not to have an issue of draping flags from the upper tier, which I think was said to be a no-no due to obscuring the boxes.

Looks quite good though eh? Makes it look a little less sanitised.

I think that was a 'one of' ozzie.

They opened the North stand at 9am for supporters to place their flags.

http://www.bwfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Gener...1420187,00.html

They hope they'll be there for the rest of the season, not a 'one of'

[DingleBaiter]

I once asked a local freelance sports journo whether or not there is in agenda in regard to way certain publications report on matters pertaining to Rovers and his blunt answer was "yes".

Clubs of our ilk have been targetted by the tabloids in particular for as long as I can remember and I have always wanted somebody, Rovers especially, to stand up for themselves. I take the legal avenue has been explored but has found to be a dead end? Sad if thats the case, little wonder some lazy, useless "journalists" with a grudge get away with some of the drivle they produce.

This has been apparent since the early days of the Walker money; it started possibly for a few factors - jealousy, Northern bias, small club etc. There's also an argument for the conspiracists about referees too, but that's another topic altogether.

Maybe under MH we made progress away from the 'bully boy' agenda the best way possible - on the field - and perhaps we're now viewed as a well-run, small-family club but very much still the 'little Blackburn' mentality persists (almost like 'Wimbledon with frills') especially up against the bigger clubs.

The club's stance has always been to accept this; Burnley Bob always used to say 'if you buy carp, you read carp' - but expecting your customers to change their newspapers is not solving the problem is it? Especially when it's not just the 'gutter press' that's at fault. The legal argument was that the articles were so cleverly worded there wouldn't be any mileage in taking action; but that's misdirection and lack of fight in the beast. Go tell the McCanns that? Go tell Carter Ruck that?

Not having a press officer, or a spokesman isn't the answer either - it's a question of stance, of competence. My underlying gripe with the whole affair is that the club's always had poor PR, but PA's influence has got much stronger, more croneyism - and the problem hasn't been solved. So, he/they are either getting money for old rope, or the club's delighted with his output, either through not knowing any better or burying their head in the sand. Which is it?

If they're open to a debate on the issue - and looking to make positive changes, rather than just spin it out, count me in. IF they really want to improve the perception, I'd be willing to pay a 'proper' PR maven's fees to sit in with PA as a consultant and advise him, it's such a debacle. We're talking here of a proper national/international company not some backwater outfit. No vested interest, other than to improve the performance of something we're poor on - certainly not after their job. However, I think my money's safe given the (perceived) croneyism involved in the Marketing & PR spots at Ewood.

As for that line about it being a 12 month contract, open to tender - that's the most amusing thing I've ever read on here (and there's lots of competition there). We're talking here of a PR agency that doesn't even have a public website, so they can't be actively looking for clients can they?

[92er]

If they're open to a debate on the issue - and looking to make positive changes, rather than just spin it out, count me in. IF they really want to improve the perception, I'd be willing to pay a 'proper' PR maven's fees to sit in with PA as a consultant and advise him, it's such a debacle. We're talking here of a proper national/international company not some backwater outfit. No vested interest, other than to improve the performance of something we're poor on - certainly not after their job. However, I think my money's safe given the (perceived) croneyism involved in the Marketing & PR spots at Ewood.

Excuse if I do not remember exactly, but I am sure you have posted that you are involved in marketing or PR but not both?

Why don't you do what the attendees at the forum have requested: ask specific questions that they can take back to the club, including your offer of a consultant to sit in with PA?

[only2garners]

If they're open to a debate on the issue - and looking to make positive changes, rather than just spin it out, count me in. IF they really want to improve the perception, I'd be willing to pay a 'proper' PR maven's fees to sit in with PA as a consultant and advise him, it's such a debacle. We're talking here of a proper national/international company not some backwater outfit. No vested interest, other than to improve the performance of something we're poor on - certainly not after their job. However, I think my money's safe given the (perceived) croneyism involved in the Marketing & PR spots at Ewood.

Backing up 92er, all I can say is that I believe that JW and Paul Agnew are genuinely willing to have a dialogue with any fan who is interested and has issues with the current PR set up. If you want to and particularly if you have expertise in the area I suggest you contact them direct.

[philipl]

Poor PR:

1) There is a balance between the local rag being the local club propoganda sheet and objective journalism. But whenever I look at the regional newspapers of other Premier League clubs and compaqre them with the LT, the LT is so cold towards the Rovers it is ridiculous.

2) I don't get the impression that PAPR do the sort of background behind the scenes work that a top London agency would do for its corporate or political clients- building relationships, mapping influencers and getting to know all the shapers of opinion so that they can more often than not anticipate and block or at least be ready with a parallel counter for any negative stories. PAPR seems to be a press release writer not a modern PR agency- I might be wrong and it could be PAPR doing stirling work keeping things out of the press at the moment.

3) Do PAPR produce backgrounders and briefs for journalists to re-position the image of the club away from Blackeye Rovers etc.? Do they do word counts and parse and co-relationship analyses to check on the effectiveness of their efforts?

[DingleBaiter]

Poor PR:

1) There is a balance between the local rag being the local club propoganda sheet and objective journalism. But whenever I look at the regional newspapers of other Premier League clubs and compaqre them with the LT, the LT is so cold towards the Rovers it is ridiculous.

2) I don't get the impression that PAPR do the sort of background behind the scenes work that a top London agency would do for its corporate or political clients- building relationships, mapping influencers and getting to know all the shapers of opinion so that they can more often than not anticipate and block or at least be ready with a parallel counter for any negative stories. PAPR seems to be a press release writer not a modern PR agency- I might be wrong and it could be PAPR doing stirling work keeping things out of the press at the moment.

3) Do PAPR produce backgrounders and briefs for journalists to re-position the image of the club away from Blackeye Rovers etc.? Do they do word counts and parse and co-relationship analyses to check on the effectiveness of their efforts?

Well said Philip.

What needs to be recognised here is twofold.

Firstly, what can actually be improved on? It's simply not enough to blithely say 'the press in this country is negative' and accept it. It can be used as a tool for positive purposes, dependent on focus, motivation and will. The sphere of influence a modern PR company can bring is vast - provided it's targeted right.

Secondly, exactly how much will is there between Rovers to address the previous point? Rovers do try - but it's not enough IMO. Whether that is down to not being up to the job in hand, or because they know no better needs to be identified IF they want to improve it. They have made some good efforts particularly this season, although there's still plenty work to be done and I'm concerned it's beyond the scope of the present incumbents. There is also the chance they may be content to stay within their 'comfort zone'.

On the subject of press officers, it's not exactly the answer, as they ultimately are only spokespeople. Witness the Newcastle press officer melting down and proving useless at the infamous Kinnear 'meet the press' day. The Sunday before Hughes asked for permission to speak to City I was told (directly from the City PO) that the following day 1) Sven would be getting the boot, and 2) Hughes was a 'done deal' - they'd approach Rovers officially for permission, Hughes would request it, and he'd be joining them, hopefully in the next 48 hours. Morale of this story is that, although the City guy has had his work cut out this season, he's not doing his job if he can't button it, is he?

[DingleBaiter]

Excuse if I do not remember exactly, but I am sure you have posted that you are involved in marketing or PR but not both?

Why don't you do what the attendees at the forum have requested: ask specific questions that they can take back to the club, including your offer of a consultant to sit in with PA?

I'd posted previously what needed to be acknowledged before the forum to assess whether it would be worthwhile. I remain unconvinced.

It's a sensitive offer (not least because my wallet could be lighter ) and it's for 100% the best of intentions, purely altruistic.

I'm not a marketing or PR guru, far from it - that's why I pay good people to do an excellent job at it for me. I do retain an interest the topic though, especially as I can see this is arguably Rover's 'Achilles Heel'.

I welcome Rovers taking the time to bring the matter to the Forum, I would expect no less under JW's excellent stewardship.

I intend to take the matter up directly with the club - separate to this - but I'm wary it would prove welcome, but fruitless. IF Rovers are just content to keep their focus on a local level through the LT, so be it - not much scope for improvement there.

However, I'm concerned the matter ultimately may proved to be a 'closed shop' aimed at justifying what they already do (defensive) rather than addressing what could be done be better (proactively).

[Ben-2000]

Not too sure where to put this...but I think it was an issue raised at a previous FF discussion. Regarding flags at Ewood, I took the photo below on Saturday at the Reebok and they appear not to have an issue of draping flags from the upper tier, which I think was said to be a no-no due to obscuring the boxes.

Looks quite good though eh? Makes it look a little less sanitised.

It was the club itself that encouraged their supporters to do this - we have to ask and be politely refused... having Rovers flags hanging from the BBE upper would make it look like a football ground with a bit of passion!

[philipl]

Thanks DingleBaiter.

Another good example of bad PR was the mis-translation of the Villanueva interview. My reaction was that following the profile interviews done with people like Nelsen and Samba, the press would know the club handles the introduction of overseas players very professionally and sensitively. So if Villanueva was complaining about his induction, it must mean the Highes Rovers way of doing things had been replaced by something worse.

If we had an effective PR, whoever wrote that piece should have automatically thought "this doesn't tally with what I know of Blackburn Rovers, I had better ring up and check". Had the same story emerged about Modric, say, giving a similar mis-translated interview in Zagreb, there would be close to no chance such a story would reach the print edition without either the reporter or the editor ringing up the Spurs press office to check the accuracy and asking for comment which they would be pretty sure to get and know it would both printable and likely to lend itself to drawing readers to it.

Then having had one mis-translation, what happens when RSC goes to South America? An almost identical replication of the mis-translation farce. You'd have thought PAPR would have learnt its lesson with the first episode.

[Ewood Spark]

Thanks DingleBaiter.

Another good example of bad PR was the mis-translation of the Villanueva interview. My reaction was that following the profile interviews done with people like Nelsen and Samba, the press would know the club handles the introduction of overseas players very professionally and sensitively. So if Villanueva was complaining about his induction, it must mean the Highes Rovers way of doing things had been replaced by something worse.

If we had an effective PR, whoever wrote that piece should have automatically thought "this doesn't tally with what I know of Blackburn Rovers, I had better ring up and check". Had the same story emerged about Modric, say, giving a similar mis-translated interview in Zagreb, there would be close to no chance such a story would reach the print edition without either the reporter or the editor ringing up the Spurs press office to check the accuracy and asking for comment which they would be pretty sure to get and know it would both printable and likely to lend itself to drawing readers to it.

Then having had one mis-translation, what happens when RSC goes to South America? An almost identical replication of the mis-translation farce. You'd have thought PAPR would have learnt its lesson with the first episode.

Sorry Phil, but you are naive if you think the press would sit on a story until they had OKed it with the club. The specific Villanueva example was brought up at the forum and, as was explained in a previous post, this story was circulated by a chap who scoures the internet for foreign football interest stories which he translates and hawks round the press. Rovers can only ever be reactive in such situations.

[tonyoz]

Thanks DingleBaiter.

Another good example of bad PR was the mis-translation of the Villanueva interview. My reaction was that following the profile interviews done with people like Nelsen and Samba, the press would know the club handles the introduction of overseas players very professionally and sensitively. So if Villanueva was complaining about his induction, it must mean the Highes Rovers way of doing things had been replaced by something worse.

If we had an effective PR, whoever wrote that piece should have automatically thought "this doesn't tally with what I know of Blackburn Rovers, I had better ring up and check". Had the same story emerged about Modric, say, giving a similar mis-translated interview in Zagreb, there would be close to no chance such a story would reach the print edition without either the reporter or the editor ringing up the Spurs press office to check the accuracy and asking for comment which they would be pretty sure to get and know it would both printable and likely to lend itself to drawing readers to it.

Then having had one mis-translation, what happens when RSC goes to South America? An almost identical replication of the mis-translation farce. You'd have thought PAPR would have learnt its lesson with the first episode.

If the Mail or Sun rang every club to check the truth of what they were about to write.............they'd have nowt left to publish!

There is no way that anyone linked to the club can influence stories like the ones you refer to. The journalists know they are writing garbage............all they are concerned about is making the garbage sound as sensational as possible.

[RevidgeBlue]

If the Mail or Sun rang every club to check the truth of what they were about to write.............they'd have nowt left to publish!

There is no way that anyone linked to the club can influence stories like the ones you refer to. The journalists know they are writing garbage............all they are concerned about is making the garbage sound as sensational as possible.

Paul Agnew made the same point, he said that freelance journalists hardly ever contact him, he said that if they did the majority of the time he would kill the story stone dead!

He said as things stand a freelancer can print a story and get paid a handsome fee for it, then, if it turns out to be wrong, more often than not get paid again for printing the "actually my story wasn't correct" version!

Re: PR I think you have to realise that no matter how much spin we try to put on it, PR wise as far as the media are concerned we're never going to be a Manchester United. Nevertheless I think dinglebaiter and Philip make some decent points re PR and I would urge them to contact Paul Agnew direct to discuss their concerns further either in correspondence or face to face.

[RevidgeBlue]

Not too sure where to put this...but I think it was an issue raised at a previous FF discussion. Regarding flags at Ewood, I took the photo below on Saturday at the Reebok and they appear not to have an issue of draping flags from the upper tier, which I think was said to be a no-no due to obscuring the boxes.

Looks quite good though eh? Makes it look a little less sanitised.

On the issue of flags the club are, or were, prepared to purchase a large lightweight flag to be unfurled across the Blackburn End.

Unfortunately however it would need some fairly dedicated fans to roll out/roll up the flag before and after games and according to the club, no-one has particularly come forward in this respect.

(The Club would store the flag between games)

There's no point paying for it to be sat there doing nothing, so the idea has been put on the back burner until there are fans willing and able to help on a regular basis.

[roversmum]

I may have missed this if it has but has it been publicised and a contact number given? I know there were a couple of BBEnders willing to do the job but was that followed up? As long as such a flag is brought out initially folks will soon get the idea and pitch in to help surely?

[Hughesy]

Loads of people in the BBE would be willing to help if they maybe asked on the big screen for volunteers - dont forget not all fans come onto these messageboards!