[Archived] Credit Crunch To Hit Football?

[Billy Castell]

West ham must be well and truely bollocksed. Apparently the Icelandic economy has gotten even worse, and the currency lost 23% of its value against the Euro on Monday. Even without the Tevez money being paid, they will probably have to sell players. Any that may interest us?

[AndyC]

West ham must be well and truely bollocksed. Apparently the Icelandic economy has gotten even worse, and the currency lost 23% of its value against the Euro on Monday. Even without the Tevez money being paid, they will probably have to sell players. Any that may interest us?

must admit to feeling a little jealous when west ham was bought and tevez was signed....what a difference a couple of seasons makes!

[philipl]

This summer the likes of Valencia and Zaragoza were teetering on the edge of bankruptcy and did not sell that much.

Presumably they got re-financed but if it was short-term money, there could be some good pickings of players in the Spanish League this January.

[philipl]

West Ham's situation is increasingly wobbly

[dave birch]

The question is, Can the FA allow a team to go under? And if not, what can they do to stop it.

[Billy Castell]

They allow Luton, Bournemouth and other teams to flirt with extinction, so Whammers should not get special treatment. But Sir Trevor of Brooking will make sure they do.

Could this be a problem for Arsenal and their Highbury flats?

[philipl]

The Arsenal Board have said that most of the flats are already sold.

The demand for property in that part of London is enormous and with the old stadium development having a real cache, I think it unlikely this project would fail.

Even if the Highbury flats fall by 20%, the loss would only represent revenue from 8 home games at the Emirates.

As much concern to Arsenal must be their ability to keep selling out 1,700 corporate boxes and the rest of the 60,000 seats at the Emirates in current circumstances.

West Ham are rumoured as likely to be sold before the week-end.

[Billy Castell]

We should club together and buy the Whammers.........................and then turn them into a de facto feeder club for Rovers. It can't be more than £3000. Any news on who would buy the club?

[philipl]

This suggests that West Ham's ownership is structured in a way that it won't be taken if indeed the Government moves to seize ownership of all Icelandic assets in the UK.

[thenodrog]

WHU's plight is not going to receive much sympathy out of Wapping is it? Obvious to a blind man on a galloping donkey that their spending of 2 years ago was unsustainable without liquidising the assets of the club. The safest clubs I guess at the moment are Citeh and Chelsea with the supporters of lots of other clubs subsidised by candy floss and promises peering nervously from under the bedclothes. Portsmouth next in line imo.

Matthew 5.5...The meek shall inherit the earth

[CrazyIvan]

WHU's plight is not going to receive much sympathy out of Wapping is it? Obvious to a blind man on a galloping donkey that their spending of 2 years ago was unsustainable without liquidising the assets of the club. The safest clubs I guess at the moment are Citeh and Chelsea with the supporters of lots of other clubs subsidised by candy floss and promises peering nervously from under the bedclothes. Portsmouth next in line imo.

Matthew 5.5...The meek shall inherit the earth

I think you might well be right about Portsmouth. The less than prudent business model that Leeds United and Ridsdale started with Rio is coming back to bite some backsides. Everton on that list by any chance?

[67splitscreen]

Matthew 5.5...The meek shall inherit the earth

But not the premier league title.

[leftfooter]

This suggests that West Ham's ownership is structured in a way that it won't be taken if indeed the Government moves to seize ownership of all Icelandic assets in the UK.

The Icelandic code of honour appears to have gone pop along with the North Sea bubble.

First, by its failure to guarantee British savers' deposits the Icelandic captains' of commerce have leapt on the lifeboats, saving themselves whilst abandoning a sinking ship full of innocent men, women and children.

Secondly, by threatening to accept a €4 billion loan from Russia in exchange for a 99-year lease on the airport at Keflavik - a former American air base - as leverage to obtain financial support from the West, they deserve the same condemnation afforded to any other rogue state such as Belarus and Venezuela.

Gudmundsson, the Shinawatras' and the Gaydamaks' (I see Arkadi’s trial – the de facto owner at Portsmouth - has just started in France for illegal arms smuggling, with him in absentia), should not be allowed to prosper from unjustly enriching themselves until they either make restitution or are at least shown to be innocent of all allegations against them.

[Hughesy]

According to todays papers - West ham could be sold for a rock bottom price of £100m!!!

WTF - £100m??? They have big debts, massive wages and a big court date ahead. Yet Rovers only cost £40m ish!

[[email protected]]

Secondly, by threatening to accept a €4 billion loan from Russia in exchange for a 99-year lease on the airport at Keflavik - a former American air base - as leverage to obtain financial support from the West, they deserve the same condemnation afforded to any other rogue state such as Belarus and Venezuela.

Whilst I understand you are using it as an example of hypocrisy, I'd just like to point out that the condemnation of Venezuela has not surrounded any military dealings it has had with other states, rogue or otherwise. Rather it has been for the adoption of broadcasting laws based on the US model coupled with part-nationalisation of banking and energy sectors which the 'free world' has taken issue with...

[dave birch]

Whilst I understand you are using it as an example of hypocrisy, I'd just like to point out that the condemnation of Venezuela has not surrounded any military dealings it has had with other states, rogue or otherwise. Rather it has been for the adoption of broadcasting laws based on the US model coupled with part-nationalisation of banking and energy sectors which the 'free world' has taken issue with...

are you listening, Leftfooter?

[leftfooter]

QUOTE ([email protected] @ Oct 10 2008, 22:50 )

Whilst I understand you are using it as an example of hypocrisy, I'd just like to point out that the condemnation of Venezuela has not surrounded any military dealings it has had with other states, rogue or otherwise. Rather it has been for the adoption of broadcasting laws based on the US model coupled with part-nationalisation of banking and energy sectors which the 'free world' has taken issue with...

are you listening, Leftfooter?

Apologies to Cocker if this is going off subject, but as a matter of courtesy however, I'll answer DB's invitation and say no more on the subject:

El Gringo is talking rubbish Dave, and he knows it!

Hugo Chávez leads the 'leftist' (read reactionary) “Bolivarian” revolution in Venezuela in the global struggle against 'American imperialism'. Just to put El Gringo's 6th Form idealism into some perspective consider the following:

1. Chavez recently forced the Spanish owned Bank of Santander to accede to the forced nationalization of its subsidiary, the Bank of Venezuela. Clearly a move designed to further centralise the Venezuelan financial system and aid the inevitable siphoning of funds to swell the coffers of the United Socialist Party.

2. Last month he announced (to consternation in Washington) that the Russian navy is to be invited to conduct joint exercises with Venezuela in the Caribbean. Led by the flagship of the Russian Balticfleet, the nuclear-powered cruiser Peter the Great, this will be supported by Russian long-range bombers trained in anti-submarine warfare . These are to be stationed at a Venezuelan air base

3. When Colombian government security forces recently raided a FARC terrorist traing camp, they discovered computer files that detailed Venezuelan efforts to arm and finance the left-wing, drug running guerrillas. The FARC were responsible for the kidnapping of Ingrid Betancourt, a French citizen and a former Colombian presidential candidate. Due to these activities Chavez sent his army to the Colombian border, a move designed to threaten and sabre rattle.

4. As proxy in Iran's global chess-game, Chavez recently drew himself further into the Iranian orbit. Chávez was one of a select band of comrades to lend his full support to Russia’s invasion of democratic and independent Georgia.

5. Rarely mentioned, but monitored by intelligence agencies are Venezuela's links with the Hizbullah terrorist organisation: In its latest survey of global terrorism, the U.S. State Department reported that in March 2007, “…Iran and Venezuela began weekly Iran Airlines flights connecting Tehran and Damascus with Caracas. Passengers on these flights were not subject to immigration and customs controls at Simón Bolívar International Airport…”

6. Of course Venezuela supports Iran’s right to its less than covert quest to develop nuclear weapons, which even the limp wristed Egyptian nuclear inspector/apologist, Mohamed El Baradei of the IAEA acknowlwdges are just a matter of months away from being succesfully built.

So much for El Gringo's comic assertion that 'the condemnation of Venezuela has not surrounded any military dealings it has had with other states, rogue or otherwise'.

Finally, Chavez's broadcasting laws were actually introduced to strengthen the penalties for causing offense to the ruling party and curtail freedom of speech. These include the introduction of laws that contravene international norms on freedom of expression, including insult laws, laws that effectively criminalise the public criticism of public officials and institutions, and the overly broad incitement provisions of its broadcasting law. This populist agenda led him to nationalise the telecommunications and electricity industry in order to increase the concentration of power for his self declared 'lifelong presidency'.

The next man in the White House, even Barak Hussein Obama will need to deal firmly with with the Venezuelan elephant in his backyard. With any luck, Ms Palin might get the opportunity to shoot it.

[Hughesy]

Charlton in advanced talks with that Nabeel fella that was apparently interested in Newcastle. Worth mega cash and deal almost complete

[philipl]

West Ham have just a month to find a buyer or face the possibility of going into administration. (Various)

From the BBC

Oh, and Sheff U have confirmed they are going after £50m, the lawyers of Neil Warnock and Sheff U players have been in touch and the risk remains that Wigan and Charlton will want cash back whilst Bolton's unspecified damages are hanging in the air.

In these circumstances, a potential buyer simply does not know what they are taking on.

And if you are an investor and not a Hammers fan, there are going to be Premier League clubs elsewhere going for a song which you can get an accurate handle on how much they are going to cost including all liabilities.

[[email protected]]

QUOTE ([email protected] @ Oct 10 2008, 22:50 )

Whilst I understand you are using it as an example of hypocrisy, I'd just like to point out that the condemnation of Venezuela has not surrounded any military dealings it has had with other states, rogue or otherwise. Rather it has been for the adoption of broadcasting laws based on the US model coupled with part-nationalisation of banking and energy sectors which the 'free world' has taken issue with...

Apologies to Cocker if this is going off subject, but as a matter of courtesy however, I'll answer DB's invitation and say no more on the subject:

El Gringo is talking rubbish Dave, and he knows it!

Hugo Chávez leads the 'leftist' (read reactionary) “Bolivarian” revolution in Venezuela in the global struggle against 'American imperialism'. Just to put El Gringo's 6th Form idealism into some perspective consider the following:

1. Chavez recently forced the Spanish owned Bank of Santander to accede to the forced nationalization of its subsidiary, the Bank of Venezuela. Clearly a move designed to further centralise the Venezuelan financial system and aid the inevitable siphoning of funds to swell the coffers of the United Socialist Party.

2. Last month he announced (to consternation in Washington) that the Russian navy is to be invited to conduct joint exercises with Venezuela in the Caribbean. Led by the flagship of the Russian Balticfleet, the nuclear-powered cruiser Peter the Great, this will be supported by Russian long-range bombers trained in anti-submarine warfare . These are to be stationed at a Venezuelan air base

3. When Colombian government security forces recently raided a FARC terrorist traing camp, they discovered computer files that detailed Venezuelan efforts to arm and finance the left-wing, drug running guerrillas. The FARC were responsible for the kidnapping of Ingrid Betancourt, a French citizen and a former Colombian presidential candidate. Due to these activities Chavez sent his army to the Colombian border, a move designed to threaten and sabre rattle.

4. As proxy in Iran's global chess-game, Chavez recently drew himself further into the Iranian orbit. Chávez was one of a select band of comrades to lend his full support to Russia’s invasion of democratic and independent Georgia.

5. Rarely mentioned, but monitored by intelligence agencies are Venezuela's links with the Hizbullah terrorist organisation: In its latest survey of global terrorism, the U.S. State Department reported that in March 2007, “…Iran and Venezuela began weekly Iran Airlines flights connecting Tehran and Damascus with Caracas. Passengers on these flights were not subject to immigration and customs controls at Simón Bolívar International Airport…”

6. Of course Venezuela supports Iran’s right to its less than covert quest to develop nuclear weapons, which even the limp wristed Egyptian nuclear inspector/apologist, Mohamed El Baradei of the IAEA acknowlwdges are just a matter of months away from being succesfully built.

So much for El Gringo's comic assertion that 'the condemnation of Venezuela has not surrounded any military dealings it has had with other states, rogue or otherwise'.

Finally, Chavez's broadcasting laws were actually introduced to strengthen the penalties for causing offense to the ruling party and curtail freedom of speech. These include the introduction of laws that contravene international norms on freedom of expression, including insult laws, laws that effectively criminalise the public criticism of public officials and institutions, and the overly broad incitement provisions of its broadcasting law. This populist agenda led him to nationalise the telecommunications and electricity industry in order to increase the concentration of power for his self declared 'lifelong presidency'.

The next man in the White House, even Barak Hussein Obama will need to deal firmly with with the Venezuelan elephant in his backyard. With any luck, Ms Palin might get the opportunity to shoot it.

6th form idealism eh? You might want to check out the situation in the country with your own eyes ( I went to the area in 2004, expecting to find a country falling apart, as news reports and GDP suggested, rather than going as an Iranian Jihadist looking to pick up a couple of training tips, you may be surprised to learn). I am also far more qualified in IPE than i would advise any potential student to bother with.

I'm fully aware of the 'points' you have made, one only needs to pick up the Economist or watch CNN to hear such one-sided views. Personally I can't think of an assertion much more comical than that the laptop contained detailed information of a co-operative link betwen FARC (who, funnily enough, are not a state) and the Venezuelan govt, but linking Hizbollah (again, not a state actor, depending on your origin) and the USP is laughable, whens the CIA paycheck due? With regards to RCTV, i'm sure you would expect ANY TV station which has lied to the people (as even CNN has admitted RCTV did) in order to start a riot aimed at bringing down the government to recieve some punishment (Note that the perpetraitors were not even arrested for their part in the 02 coup). If you read the work of Gollinger (who has far more insight into the law than a suit in Washington), she delves into the influences and thinking behind the new law, concluding that it is not vastly different to the law in many Western countries.

You'll also be aware, I am sure, that the Russian excercise is, afaik, mostly talk, so much so that even HRW have failed to report it, and that Chavez was instrumental in peace talks between the Colombian government and FARC specifically regarding Ingrid Betancourt. Of course I can't think how that would have sunk in for one so keen on making assumptions of links between 'bad guys'. Next you'll come up with a link between hoodies on the streets of manchester and Kim Il Sung. Or possibly the UK/US goverment and a tyranical dictator....such as a Pinochet or Hussein...

I'll happily accept that the Bolivarian alternative isn't the right way to do things, especially for the many other nations who don't hapen to be sat on large reserves of heavy oil. However, it does offer some extremely sensible ways of going about matters which the 'Developed' nations should be damn right ashamed that they did not introduce (e.g banco del sur as an alternative to the IMF, the 'misions' which have seen the country rise above Britain in literacy rates etc). It also often mirrors actions other countries have made, whilst recieving undue criticism. Such as the connections with terrorists you point to, which are about as clear as connections between the US and IRA.

And of course, I can't let this conclude without pointing out that, yes, Chavez has taken the ###### somewhat when it has come to the length of his term. But at least he was voted in in the first place, unlike our glorious leader, and has been backed by the people when challenged legally or illegally.

So, In a very long winded manner, lets return to my original statement about controversy surrounding Venezuelas actual confirmed military dealings with STATES, rogue or otherwise. As you've pointed out, the only recent example is that of a very recent announcement that the Russians will be conducting a joint excersise, as they have done in the past couple of years with the French and Chinese, at some point. The only controversy is from Washington and bigoted fools who are more concerned about fingering 'terrorists' (who ten years ago were regarded as drug dealers) than the development of the quality of life for the worlds poorest individuals.

[philipl]

Chavez for the most part is not good news for Venezuela or anywhere else. However, the knee jerk reactions from Washington make the whole issue clouded by a whole lot of unneccessary confusion and emnity and until Bush is out of office there is zero chance of any rationality so far as most of America's neighbours to the south are concerned.

Back on topic, signs of the MUFC facade crumbling:

- the Mancs may chose not to acquire Tevez after all prefering to spend on a 19 year old Brasilian

- Real Madrid are going back in for Ronaldo with the comment that Man U's chances of holding onto him are "complicated"

[Billy Castell]

I can't stand how Real Madrid conduct everything in public. It's no better than secret meetings in restaraunts behind the other clubs back.

However, if MUFC is truely crumbling I hope they can play a part here. An early exit from Europe could be very damaging.

[thenodrog]

If companies or football clubs want to see punters through the doors then, who knows, maybe they're prepared to take a minor hit for us, if only to stop us going 'next-door'.

'Next door'? What or where is 'next door' and why would we be inclined to go there?

[Shaddy]

I really, really hope that if the credit crunch hits football, the big clubs who have raided ours and other clubs for our best players on the back of excessive borrowings get their comeuppances.

However the pessimist in me worries that Rovers relatively strong position will be thwarted. The club relies on Premier League money for the greater part of its income. I imagine that even with smallish debt, a hit on income would put great stress on the club. And I suspect that if the big clubs started crying poor to the PL, they'd convince it that without those big clubs, their product would be diminished. I can imagine a situation where the PL caved and gave the big clubs a larger share of income than the rest of the league.

Can someone assure me that this would be illegal? I'm not convinced that even if the law would suggest that it is illegal, like many other situations, we'll be shocked at the loopholes that suddenly appear to deny Rovers an equal share of PL income.

[ABBEY]

the club next door is bumley ...doh