[Archived] Middlesbrough Preview

[thenodrog]

Also interesting that the three best perfomances last night came from Ince signings (Grella, Carlos and Simpson) I think it shows that the Hughes regime programming of the players ran very deep and they are the ones who have the hardest task to adapt to any new manager. Maybe that's why players who left us didn't fare too well at their new clubs.

imo RSC, Warnock and Emo were also in close contention for MoM.

These two must be related-

Indeed.................. To Gus Poyet.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

In the cold light of day we're in for a tough season unless we can sign some attacking midfielders in January. We've got nobody who has the combination of pace and skill that takes you around the back of the oppositions defence. We spent most of last night playing in front of their back four without ever really getting in up the byeline. I like Emo and he's been our best player this season but he's not the sort of player that can consistently get at teams around the outside, he's too easily turned inside into heavy traffic. I also agree that centre midfield is probably his best position.

Pedersen's lack of pace is well known and he lacks the savvy and aggression to force his way half past opponents before firing in a quick cross. I remember Rick Holden at City not being fast but he had the knack of shuffling halfway past his marker before getting in a quick cross ball. Derbyshire proved once and for all last night he can't cross a ball especially when he's coming in from the left. Before anybody says " Well he's a striker", so was Shearer and he was also the best crosser of the ball at the club when we won the Championship!

Villaneava is a busy little player but he's not at the moment got the ability to make a go of it out wide, he's clever with a great left foot but he's not fast and seems easily isolated when out wide. He looks to be the sort of player that thrives on being in the thick of the action. He is also our main threat from dead balls. Maybe Olsen would fit the bill in an emergency, he's got plenty of pace and seems to be a direct player with a decent left foot.

On a more cheerful note I liked the look of Grella, he was mobile and combative with the ability to keep the game simple and find a blue and white shirt most of the time.

Our other problem is finding the formation to play with, playing Boro at home we had Grella and Warnock playing deep and we still looked vulnerable to breakaways. We should be playing 4-4-2 in home games against teams around us in the league. Away and against the top teams at home maybe we should be more cautious.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

I thought I would wait until the morning to see the reaction on here - unfortunately people seem to have missed the fact (maybe because of the score line) that we actually played quite well. Some of the angles of passing and movement were imaginative, and at times incisive - this is a much changed team to under MH were the play was more regimented and less imaginative.

Interesting that people was the formation as 4-5-1 - as at times I thought it was 4-3-3. Also interesting - though obviously missed by people on here - the number of times that Emerton (who was awesome) and Warnock manage to get in the box. A midfield three of Warnock, Grella and Emerton is both balanced and energetic - but hey what do I know.

Carlos (IMO) is starting to get used to the speed of the EPL - some of his passing angles were unbelievable - as were the number of times he was involved in moves that led to chances. Unusually for him - the one thing missing was accuracy of shooting.

I thought most players had reasonable matches with the exception of Olsson and (though it pains me to say it) Derbs. Though you could say that Derbs was often asked to drift left (never did Henry any harm) - his passing was poor, as was his shooting.

This match (IMO) confirmed that we may have a decent manager in PI - how many times under previous managers would this have ended up as a 1-0 smash and grab ? The fact we kept on going to the end (and still managed to try to play football rather than just lumping forward), that PI made the right sub - all bodes well for the future.

As i said previously some of the football especially in the first half was very good. Warnock did break into the box regularly but it just did not happen in the second half. But I thought he signed Andrews to do that. Olssen at times was worrying getting caught out and I feel Rovers would be better served by Warnock at left back. He also gives the team width which as posters have stressed we were sadly lacking down the left side.

Having read my last posting it was rather negative, positives for me were nice football[but nowhere near enough], Robinson commanding his defence [telling them to get forward as we were one down], Grella's performance, Carlos' first half performance and the finishing of Benni.

No Rovers side should be playing 4-5-1 at home! It's asking for trouble. Rovers have always been a footballing side. Rovers should be starting 4-4-2 or even 4-3-3.

Rovers to me tried to paly 4-3-3. It was just that Derbs was too far left and Carlos was dropping off the front man. For this formation to work, Derbs needed to be more central with both full backs attacking to provide width, Warnock and Emerton are probably best suited for this.

I also think that Ooijer is the ideal repalcement for nelson not Samba. Personally I think Zurab would be better as a replacement for Samba as he is mobile than both Nelson and Andre.

[alexanders]

Good performance by the Rovers. 150 passes vs 60 in the 1st half is impressive.

Actually the only change I would like to see for next game against Villa is;

Warnock on LB and Andrews taking his place next to Grella. That way Grella( who had a great game) would do the defensive part and Andrews who have been very good at getting in to the box, will contribute offensively.

Up the Rovers - Bring on Villa and hopefully Roque and Benni will make Friedel regret he left Ewood.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Good performance by the Rovers. 150 passes vs 60 in the 1st half is impressive.

Actually the only change I would like to see for next game against Villa is;

Warnock on LB and Andrews taking his place next to Grella. That way Grella( who had a great game) would do the defensive part and Andrews who have been very good at getting in to the box, will contribute offensively.

Up the Rovers - Bring on Villa and hopefully Roque and Benni will make Friedel regret he left Ewood.

The problem is about 100 of those passes were in and out of the back four and defensive midfielders and rarely led anywhere apart from the ones that eventually went to a red shirt.

[tony gale's mic]

I can't help but feel that Ince is taking the wrong approach. During the days of Hughes people would whinge on about how we weren't playing attractive football, to which I'd always reply we simply didn't have the quality running through our team to be playing it successfully. To buy players of that calibre throughout the team costs the sort of money that we don't have.

Currently we're playing some nice football, but as highlighted yesterday it doesn't get nearly the same results as Hughes did. There's always one pass that goes astray, one bit of poor control etc. We're just not suited to that type of play, as much as I appreciate Ince trying. Under Hughes we played to our strengths and got results. We got goals going forward and were reasonably solid at the back on the whole. Under Ince we look vulnerable every time our defence is challenged and aren't direct enough in our approach going forward. Attractive football is all well and good if you can use it properly, but we're just lacking in the neccessary quality to make it successful.

And the defensive side of things does worry me. Their goal may have been unjustified but they could easily have scored twice before that too thanks to defensive errors on our part, with Aliadiere hitting the bar and the wrongly disallowed goal.

[thenodrog]

The problem is about 100 of those passes were in and out of the back four and defensive midfielders and rarely led anywhere apart from the ones that eventually went to a red shirt.

And a lot of em were too close resulting in lost possession. A long standing fault imo ever since Tim Sherwood left in fact.

[MCMC1875]

Phil Brown on MOTD was telling of his experience with Mr Allardyce who often said that when you don't have big money, maximise your resources. Clearly Mark Hughes was good at this.

[thenodrog]

Phil Brown on MOTD was telling of his experience with Mr Allardyce who often said that when you don't have big money, maximise your resources. Clearly Mark Hughes was good at this.

Clearly all three were / are good at it.

[thenodrog]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/oc...eague-blackburn

"Simon Leigh, Observer reader It was a huge relief to get the equaliser so late on."

I bet you nearly spilled your pint when that goal went in eh Rev?

[MCMC1875]

Clearly all three were / are good at it.

Then perhaps the board were a tad hasty in overlooking Mr Allardyce? (Tin hat on).

[speeeeeeedie]

Another game, another load of bile from some supposed Rovers supporters.

We played OK. The 2nd half got a bit pedestrian and we got a very late equaliser but I'll take a point when 0 looked on the cards. We had over 60% possession yet a lot of it was ineffectual going forward, but they'll not score if they don't have the ball.

I agree with the posters who say we should play 4-4-2 with Warnock back at left back. Olsson is a good player but Warnock is better there. Warnock's initial shine for midfield is wearing off and you can now see that he is a defender plugging a gap. Enthusiasm will only go so far, Warnock needs to be back in is favoured position, especially now that Grella is fit who I thought was very impressive yesterday.

Santa Cruz was too isolated against a team that was happy to play 10 men behind the ball as to not concede (no surprises afer getting tonked last week). Derbyshire is no left winger. His reaction when he went off showed his frustration (a few f's came out).

We're certainly not relegation candidates, but I think we need a bit more spark. Our home record is not great, that needs improving, but if the ground sounds anything like on here It's no surprise.

[alexanders]

I also thought that Ince was being more enthusiastic and was giving more directives to the players from the sideline yesterday.

I think he is getting warm and getting more and more self confidence himself.

[1864roverite]

Arsenal used to play 4-5-1 with Henry quite a bit. Just because your playing it doesn't mean your not a footballing side. To do it without a long ball though you need pace both up front and in support which I'm not sure we have.

Hold on a mo, Arsenal had CLASS through their team whereas ROVERS simply dont have the skill and speed factor.

THATS A MARKED DIFFERENCE

[vyeo]

I also thought that Ince was being more enthusiastic and was giving more directives to the players from the sideline yesterday.

I think he is getting warm and getting more and more self confidence himself.

For me, the problem is not Ince not being confident of himself - given the footballing world's knowledge of him and his persona, self-confidence is clearly a trait of his. But the problem is it appears that Ince has no confidence in the club. This is the biggest difference between Ince and Hughes - Hughes believed that Rovers was top six material, Ince does not. This is reflected in the rhetoric - we all knew Hughes had nothing to spend, but when was it before he started complaining publicly? a few seasons on would be the answer. When Hughes took over and we were in the doldrums, did Hughes ever mention relegation or tried to make any excuses? Again, no. Compare this with Ince, who has whined publicly on at least two occasions that he has no money to spend, and who is desperately getting his excuses in already.

On to yesterday, I thought we did okie. We played some good, one-touch football which (if a little far-fetched), resembled something like Arsenal's. What we lack is their frightening pace and width - issues which MUST be addressed in January. I was very impressed with Grella. He reminded me of an upgraded version of robbie savage - he seems to combine savage's workrate and the constant harassing of opponents with more passing guile and technical ability. So good job there Ince, if Grella keeps it up. (Separately, I do not agree with the Vogel situation because I thought he made a very good contribution last season, and I would certainly put him ahead of Steven Reid and Andrews. But I can accept that certain players just dont feature in some manager's plans, so tough luck for him and us...) I have absolutely no idea what Ince is doing by putting Derbyshire on the wing, BUT (and this is a huge but), Ince is not the first manager to do so. Remember that Sparky played Derbyshire there too on more than several occasions last season. I personally think that Derb's is a great prospect and a very good finisher, but if two managers think the same way and play him on the wing, surely there must be something we're not seeing?

The fact of the matter is, Ince is a divisive appointment. So as far as this messageboard goes, the for-Ince and against-Ince debate will likely rage on. But as fans, our bottomline is the same - we want success for blackburn. So until he is gone (and I really hope he is gone soon for I have no confidence in him), this argument will go on, but we will still, as a collective, watch the games and we will still root for Rovers. Ince's detractors (me included) will still complain about what we perceive to be Ince's failings. But that is only because we care. (And being stuck on 3 wins in late-October is worrying me, but maybe we were spoilt by the success of the previous few seasons.)

[gumboots]

Thats quite some statement gumboots! But anyway what do the Blackburn End know about offsides? The last people I would ask about close offside decisions are people who watch from behind the goals.

Didn't say it wasn't offside though but just that it wasn't as clear as those watching on tv seemed to think.

[Mozzer]

won 3 , drawn 3 , lost 3..

2 of the three defeats against top 4 sides-man utd and arsenal, another defeat against west ham-where we never win there..

i personally am liking what paul ince is doing-dont forget hes still learning about the team-he still doesnt know his best team-atleast mark hughes had a good 6-8months to learn about the team before starting his first season in charge..

theres been alot of changes at the club-losing bentley and friedal who where both brilliant for us last season was a blow-but ince has got on with his job-and despite losing two of our best players for a number of seasons i think we have done alright..

too many rovers fans are expecting blackburn to pick up where we left off from last season-but things have changed-new players have come in, players have left-most of all we have changed manager-give the manager a chance-were in the top half of the table for crying out load-where do some of you expect us to be???

[MarkBRFC71]

Why does Derbyshire keep on getting chances when all he does time and time again is prove he is just not good enough? He's OK - and just OK - to bring on for 10 minutes, but other than that he's a waste of a shirt. Even when he plays in his 'best' position - up front - he looks like a little boy lost. The only times he looks OK are when we play lower league opposition in the Carling Cup, which for me says he's found his level. I would love as much as anyone else for him to make it being a local lad, but for me we should be looking to offload him in January and try to get someone half-decent in. I would also get shut of Roberts who is a worse finisher than Nathan Blake.

Grella and Emerton were both excellent yesterday, although I thought overall we looked pretty poor. Olsson is still some way short of the finishd article. You've got to question some of Ince's selections very seriously though - our fourth choice striker on the left-wing, a left-back in midfield when we've got Tugay, Andrews, Vogel and even Mokoena available, 4-5-1 at home? All extremely odd ....

I stand by what I said earlier in the season - I fear that Ince will either be sacked by the end of the season or we'll be in the Championship. I just hope the first doesn't happen too late to avoid the second.

[Paul Mellelieu]

I think Tonymic has hot the nail on the head. Ince is trying to play more attractive open football, and has to be applauded for the aspiration. However I'm not sure that we have the quality of player to pull it off. Their goal yesterday was a case in point. Under hughes 'Boro wouldn't have been able to play three passes in midfield without pressure on the ball.

In the plus column I thought Grella showed that's his been in Italian football for a decade; and Robinson seems to be getting his feet under the table, so to speak.

Having said that, I can't see us doing better than the bottom quarter of the division.

[joey_big_nose]

No Rovers side should be playing 4-5-1 at home! It's asking for trouble. Rovers have always been a footballing side. Rovers should be starting 4-4-2 or even 4-3-3.

We were playing 4231:

----------------Cruz

-Derbs--------Carlos------Emerton

--------Warnock-----Grella

Olsson---Nelsen----Ooijer--Simpson

---------------Robinson

Part of the reason we were so ineffective was because Boro were playing so deep. The point of the formation is to exploit the space behind the opposition fullbacks and find space for the playmaker (Carlos) in front of their defence. Unfortunately Boro were so deep that there was no space behind the full backs really, or none that Derbs or Emerton could exploit, and their midfield was so close to their defence that Carlos was squeezed out.

I would have gone 442 in the second half when it became clear Boro were not going to come out of their half.

Still can't believe Tugay did not make an appearance... we needed some quality creativity.

[benlloninho]

The game came on FSC yesterday so I got to watch it. I feel the following observations are marginally valid:

1) Matt Derbyshire was really, really bad. He is not a left winger; he didn't want the ball. Every time the camera showed a close up of his face, it looked like he was going to cry and he wanted the earth to swallow him up. The few times he did manage to put a decent ball in the box, nobody was there.

2) Grella doesn't pass the ball to anybody but Emerton and Paul Robinson.

3) Several of Villanueva's deliveries from dead balls were very, very good. I hope he will develop into a good Premier League player, but he lost possession very often yesterday.

4) Is Treacy's last name really pronounced "Tree-Key"? If so, I had no idea.

5) In general, I thought we were poor in the final third and otherwise we weren't so bad - just not very good. Couldn't really complain if we had lost, but luckily we were saved by boom boom. Announcers were rightly critical of our inability to really attack Boro who looked comfortable all afternoon.

[Hasta]

Hold on a mo, Arsenal had CLASS through their team whereas ROVERS simply dont have the skill and speed factor.

THATS A MARKED DIFFERENCE

Err, thats more or less what I'm saying isn't it?

It's not about the formation, it's the players.

[Laurence]

Warnock and Derbyshire both being played out of position and consequently failing to do what they do best, Rocky isolated up front against 3 defenders for most of the game, very little width except occasionally from Bert but at times the midfield were in a state with Warnock charging all over the place so Bert often had to cover. Clearly we need to make the most of Carlos as he's going to be a star and a 4-4-2 may not be the best way to do this, so perhaps a change in formation is needed but at times yesterday we were a mess. Ince may be trying to get the team to play attractive attacking football, but to do that they need to be better organised with players being played in positions that suit them and we need to stop booting the ball up in the air.

[LeChuck]

Part of the reason we were so ineffective was because Boro were playing so deep.

Sorry Joey but that's simply not true. Boro were playing quite high up the pitch because they knew we have absolutely no pace. How many headers/knock downs did Santa Cruz make near the half way line?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Still can't believe Tugay did not make an appearance... we needed some quality creativity.

In some ways I wasn't surprised - I think Grella and Tugay would get in each others way. Like him or loathe him - Andrews is probably a better pairing with Grella.

Having said all that - Carlos is a far better player - with Tugay in the team.