[Archived] Middlesbrough Preview

[neekoy]

Fair enough but the stats certainly support Fowler

Well if you look at their performance as whole, the stats actually support Larrson.

If you even look at it objectively, Larsson still comes out in front. Titles, importance to teams, qulaity of player, world cup appearances, european appreances, ect ect ect.

The fact that no club has ever looked to offload Larsson says enough.

[CrazyIvan]

I can't believe that this thread has turned into a debate about the relative merits of Larsson and Fowler.

I'd still choose Larsson over Fowler...

[philipl]

We'll just have to agree to agree (on that point).

[Jan]

Well if you look at their performance as whole, the stats actually support Larrson.

If you even look at it objectively, Larsson still comes out in front. Titles, importance to teams, qulaity of player, world cup appearances, european appreances, ect ect ect.

The fact that no club has ever looked to offload Larsson says enough.

That's because he was a model pro, not a big time Charlie ( and the reference CAN be taken many ways).

And Larsson won the golden boot, a feat which Fowler didn't manage. ( the two other winners who played for British clubs being Thierry Henry and Cristiano Ronaldo- august company indeed)

[imy9]

That's because he was a model pro, not a big time Charlie ( and the reference CAN be taken many ways).

And Larsson won the golden boot, a feat which Fowler didn't manage. ( the two other winners who played for British clubs being Thierry Henry and Cristiano Ronaldo- august company indeed)

I am sure Fowler is gutted about missing the Golden Boot and not plying his trade in the Scottish top flight

Big time Charlie? Fair enough but that does not take away his ability or the fact that people are rewriting history on here, Liverpool fans refer to him as 'god', at a club where you had Ian Rush, Dalglish, Keegan, thats high praise indeed.

Other notable winners of the Golden Boot?

Mario Jardel, Nikos Machlas, Roy Mackaay and you missed one Golden boot winner playing for a British club, that great striker known as...um Kevin Phillips

[Majiball]

If I remember correctly that was his choice - he promised to end his career with them. Plenty of top clubs still wanted him when he agreed to join them.

Wasn't he still being chased by English clubs this summer?? I'm sure I read one was in for him.

Re making an £8m profit if I was the owner why not seems like an excellent return then put the lack of spending on the new managers head until he settles in - good strategy.

As a typical Blackburn fan and probably shared by the Walkers we want something for next to nothing which is nothing new, but there was strong rumours coming from people close to the top of the Ewood park tree that the money the trustees were putting was a publicity stunt to keep the fans off their backs you Philipl have maintained that thought and have consistently deflected criticism onto Paul Ince for lack of spending.

Many posters on here will know that i've knocked Paul Ince in the past but on the viewpoint of Ince not splashing the cash sorry that just doesnt wash with me though come January the real truth will come out if Rovers spend withpout having to sell Roque then i'll be proved wrong but until then I stand by what I say.

They have got some cash but the football world should be readjusting itself regarding fees and wages so going in a complete circle I hope Rovers dont waste money for the sake of it.

I believe the dollar is there. We where looking at several right wingers Valdo, Joaquin even Pennant all would have cost top dollar for us. I think the lack of spending is part of JW's thinking, he's probably just covering the clubs back.

By this I mean worst case scenario Ince doesn't cut it we end up struggling and the worst happens, at least we will still have some cash to spend without dipping into the club coffers. However if Ince proves himself then he will be handed the cash to spend. Kind of a prove yourself and we will back you attitude. It could work out quite nicely, lets say we don't buy big in January (prices always go up) and we save the kitty for the summer sales. Would we not then theoretically have double our normal 10M? without RSC sale! The trustee's have said they will put more money in in January, hopefully its enough to cover the falling attendance's at Ewood.

At the end of the day the club will spend what they can without walking the tight-rope.

[neekoy]

I am sure Fowler is gutted about missing the Golden Boot and not plying his trade in the Scottish top flight

Big time Charlie? Fair enough but that does not take away his ability or the fact that people are rewriting history on here, Liverpool fans refer to him as 'god', at a club where you had Ian Rush, Dalglish, Keegan, thats high praise indeed.

Other notable winners of the Golden Boot?

Mario Jardel, Nikos Machlas, Roy Mackaay and you missed one Golden boot winner playing for a British club, that great striker known as...um Kevin Phillips

Liverpool, phht. They refer to any local kid as GOD or LORD or BUDDHA

Yeh Jardel was @#/?, 130 goals in 125 appearances for Porto, 22 from 24 for Gala and 53 from 49 at Sporting and Makaay scored nearly a goal every two in over 430 league appearances, even when he was supposedly useless he still manged to score 78 goals for Bayern.

Machlas and Phillips had a great year the times they won

Larsson has won everything there is to win in club competition and even came close to a World Cup, he is Sweden's greatest ever player.

Fowler isn't even the best English striker of his generation.

And before you keep slagging the Golden boot, the results are actually weighted by competition strength, for every 5 goals Folwer scored, Larsson had to score 9

Apologies for railroading

Borough are just as crap as we are this year, however I think Tuncay would like very smart in blue and white

[ABBEY]

Fowler:

fourth highest goal scorer in PL history.

30 goals three seasons on the bounce in a top league.

Whatever reservations people have about Fowler as a person ,as a striker he was exceptional, second only to Shearer as a finisher.

did you know before the prem league football had been around for 100 years + and that there used to be a thing called the first division.

jimmy greaves ? dixie dean ? never saw them but to say hes second only to shearer is frightening.

[imy9]

did you know before the prem league football had been around for 100 years + and that there used to be a thing called the first division.

jimmy greaves ? dixie dean ? never saw them but to say hes second only to shearer is frightening.

Really, would never have guessed it

Seriously, the discussion was about PL football, which is why I said Fowler was the fourth highest PREMIER league scorer and that he is behind Shearer as the best natural striker of his generation.

[ABBEY]

so let me get this correct ,we just bury our head in the sand and cant use pre prem goalscorers as a yardstick then?

[tcj_jones]

I really don't know why people are getting so hept up over which of Fowler / Larsson is the better player, there's really no need.

For what it's worth, Fowler in his prime was an exceptional player, one of the very best. However, his career trailed off and declined quite spectacularly once he left Liverpool. Larsson, IMO, has never been as valuable to a team as Fowler was when he was banging in 30 goals a season, but has maintained an exceptionally high standard of fitness and determination throughout his career that has seen him produce consistent quality year upon year upon year. He was one of Europe's top strikers for a long, long time.

Fowler has been past it for a long time. He hasn't managed to produce for about eight years now. Signing him was an absolute waste of time and resurces and will only see our youngsters pushed further away from the first team. Right now, I would have Larsson over Fowler.

[imy9]

Liverpool, phht. They refer to any local kid as GOD or LORD or BUDDHA

Yeh Jardel was @#/?, 130 goals in 125 appearances for Porto, 22 from 24 for Gala and 53 from 49 at Sporting and Makaay scored nearly a goal every two in over 430 league appearances, even when he was supposedly useless he still manged to score 78 goals for Bayern.

Machlas and Phillips had a great year the times they won

Larsson has won everything there is to win in club competition and even came close to a World Cup, he is Sweden's greatest ever player.

Fowler isn't even the best English striker of his generation.

And before you keep slagging the Golden boot, the results are actually weighted by competition strength, for every 5 goals Folwer scored, Larsson had to score 9

Apologies for railroading

Borough are just as crap as we are this year, however I think Tuncay would like very smart in blue and white

OK, lets go by your logic,

Jardel, played how many times for Brazil... answer SEVEN, great player...

Mackaay is not a great striker, in the league of Van the man? Bergkamp?

Larsson has won everything in inferior leagues, Barca he was a sub for most of his time and was seen as a super sub. He is a striker yet his record is very poor when you look at what he did in the better leagues.

Finally Golden boot is a nonsense, if I scored 10 goals in the PL, then the Scottish league for being inferior, I would have to score ONE and a HALF more goals to be on the same level as the PL!! that is a fact, check the official site.

So if Fowler scored 30 goals in PL

Larsson would have to score about 35 goals in Scotland, the same thing? I dont think so...

so let me get this correct ,we just bury our head in the sand and cant use pre prem goalscorers as a yardstick then?

No... just that I made a point about Fowler and Shearer as they have played in the same era, so judging them is probably fairer, otherwise the argument could be made that teams were weaker/stronger, ball was different, etc, variables change so results will too.

You can mention pre pre goal scorers all you like....

[neekoy]

OK, lets go by your logic,

Jardel, played how many times for Brazil... answer SEVEN, great player...

Mackaay is not a great striker, in the league of Van the man? Bergkamp?

Larsson has won everything in inferior leagues, Barca he was a sub for most of his time and was seen as a super sub. He is a striker yet his record is very poor when you look at what he did in the better leagues.

Finally Golden boot is a nonsense, if I scored 10 goals in the PL, then the Scottish league for being inferior, I would have to score ONE and a HALF more goals to be on the same level as the PL!! that is a fact, check the official site.

So if Fowler scored 30 goals in PL

Larsson would have to score about 35 goals in Scotland, the same thing? I dont think so...

No... just that I made a point about Fowler and Shearer as they have played in the same era, so judging them is probably fairer, otherwise the argument could be made that teams were weaker/stronger, ball was different, etc, variables change so results will too.

You can mention pre pre goal scorers all you like....

HAHAHAHA! If Fowler score 30 goals Larsson would need to score 45 you git. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Champions League, Premier League, Golden Boot, 3rd in a WC, 2 Premiera Liga titles, Everything in Scotland, CUPS CUPS and more CUPS, Swedens greatest ever player, give me break, he is and always has been light years ahead of Fowler.

EDIT: Fowler had Owen and Shearer to compete with, Jardel had Romario, Rivaldo, Ronaldo ect ect ect.

[ABBEY]

OK, lets go by your logic,

Jardel, played how many times for Brazil... answer SEVEN, great player...

Mackaay is not a great striker, in the league of Van the man? Bergkamp?

Larsson has won everything in inferior leagues, Barca he was a sub for most of his time and was seen as a super sub. He is a striker yet his record is very poor when you look at what he did in the better leagues.

Finally Golden boot is a nonsense, if I scored 10 goals in the PL, then the Scottish league for being inferior, I would have to score ONE and a HALF more goals to be on the same level as the PL!! that is a fact, check the official site.

So if Fowler scored 30 goals in PL

Larsson would have to score about 35 goals in Scotland, the same thing? I dont think so...

No... just that I made a point about Fowler and Shearer as they have played in the same era, so judging them is probably fairer, otherwise the argument could be made that teams were weaker/stronger, ball was different, etc, variables change so results will too.

You can mention pre pre goal scorers all you like....

blooomin heck.

You say we are discussing prem footy and not pre prem goal scorers yet you mention other european leagues ,lets have it one way or another.

[neekoy]

blooomin heck.

You say we are discussing prem footy and not pre prem goal scorers yet you mention other european leagues ,lets have it one way or another.

Sorry ABS, that is my fault, he was responing to my post not yours

[imy9]

HAHAHAHA! If Fowler score 30 goals Larsson would need to score 45 you git. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Champions League, Premier League, Golden Boot, 3rd in a WC, 2 Premiera Liga titles, Everything in Scotland, CUPS CUPS and more CUPS, Swedens greatest ever player, give me break, he is and always has been light years ahead of Fowler.

EDIT: Fowler had Owen and Shearer to compete with, Jardel had Romario, Rivaldo, Ronaldo ect ect ect.

Did you get a GCSE in Maths?

For every 10 goals Fowler scores, Larsson would have to score about 12

30 goals would total about 36 goals, where did you get 45 goals from?

Champions league super sub (how many appearances did he make in his career?)

Premier league...ummm 7 games 1 goal

Golden boot playing in Scotland

3rd in a World Cup... that was his country... So did Hakan Unsal (remember him)

super sub in La Liga- how many goals did he score?

Swedens greatest player is not saying a lot is it? Who is number 2, Martin Dahlin!!

Light years ahead of Fowler? When Larsson has scored Premiership goalS (he only has ONE) or has scored more than 10 in a season in a top Euro league maybe he can be Fowlers league, but as it happens he is a good player in the mould of a Ole Gunnar (diff being Ole actually scored goals for a top team for a long time!)

[philipl]

imy, you are making a fool of yourself now.

On the maths point, neekoy said a ratio of 5 to 9. Your arithmetic is wrong- it is 10 to 18 and 30 to 54.

Larsson scored 13 in 40 La Liga games for Barca over two injury hit seasons. He scored 37 Champions League goals in 65 appearances and 46 goals in Europe in 76 appearances in total. His career total is 373 goals in 688 games.

Fowler's European record is 15 in 47 games and career total so far is 230 in 507 games.

As for knocking Sweden, don't look up the England v Sweden head-to-head record, you'll be suicidal.

[imy9]

imy, you are making a fool of yourself now.

On the maths point, neekoy said a ratio of 5 to 9. Your arithmetic is wrong- it is 10 to 18 and 30 to 54.

Larsson scored 13 in 40 La Liga games for Barca over two injury hit seasons. He scored 37 Champions League goals in 65 appearances and 46 goals in Europe in 76 appearances in total. His career total is 373 goals in 688 games.

Fowler's European record is 15 in 47 games and career total so far is 230 in 507 games.

As for knocking Sweden, don't look up the England v Sweden head-to-head record, you'll be suicidal.

I think you will find, if you READ my post that the actual difference between a scottish goal and PL goal works out at for every 10 PL goals= 12 Scottish goals. Dont trust me check out the Euro site.

Check out Larssons Euro goals, most of them were scored playing in the dodgy UEFA cup against guess what weak opponents (interesting that he has scored 9 goals in 9 appearances for his Swedish club)

As stated Fowler has scored goals at the highest level, whereas Larsson has not.

[LeChuck]

I think you will find, if you READ my post that the actual difference between a scottish goal and PL goal works out at for every 10 PL goals= 12 Scottish goals. Dont trust me check out the Euro site.

Stop talking out of your arse, you're making yourself look absolutely ridiculous (again). You even had the nerve to snide about Maths GCSEs, even though you're blatantly wrong.

When Larsson won it, he scored 35 goals and amassed a total of 52.5 points. The nearest winner to that has been Totti, who scored 26 goals to get 52 points. You get two points for every goal in a top league, and 1.5 for every goal in Scotland.

That means someone in Scotland has to score 40 goals to amass the same points total as someone who scores 30 in the Premier League. NOT 35 as you wrote before.

I was going to finish this off with a by giving you a bit of grief, but it's just too bloody easy, so I won't.

[imy9]

Stop talking out of your arse, you're making yourself look absolutely ridiculous (again). You even had the nerve to snide about Maths GCSEs, even though you're blatantly wrong.

When Larsson won it, he scored 35 goals and amassed a total of 52.5 points. The nearest winner to that has been Totti, who scored 26 goals to get 52 points. You get two points for every goal in a top league, and 1.5 for every goal in Scotland.

That means someone in Scotland has to score 40 goals to amass the same points total as someone who scores 30 in the Premier League. NOT 35 as you wrote before.

I was going to finish this off with a by giving you a bit of grief, but it's just too bloody easy, so I won't.

The irony is subsequently lost on Le Chuck when you are stating that someone else looks ridiculous.

The reason I made the snide comment was because I was referred to as a "git"- lovely that in the midst of an adult conversation.

The site I read the information from was incorrect and Wikki of all places has supported this. I am big enough to accept that I made a mistake. 40 goals in Scotland is still easy compared to 30 in PL.

[LeChuck]

Finally Golden boot is a nonsense, if I scored 10 goals in the PL, then the Scottish league for being inferior, I would have to score ONE and a HALF more goals to be on the same level as the PL!! that is a fact, check the official site.

Dont trust me check out the Euro site.

The site I read the information from was incorrect

You're full of it. You obviously had that 1.5 figure in front of you somewhere, as I've shown in bold. You then tell us to check the official site (twice) - I have done, the information isn't incorrect as you have just tried to claim in your last post.

Do you want to keep digging or are you just going to admit you cocked up?

[imy9]

You're full of it. You obviously had that 1.5 figure in front of you somewhere, as I've shown in bold. You then tell us to check the official site (twice) - I have done, the information isn't incorrect as you have just tried to claim in your last post.

Do you want to keep digging or are you just going to admit you cocked up?

You have a problem with reading so I will help:

"I am big enough to accept that I made a mistake"

I thought that was clear enough, obviously not

[T4E]

I think you will find, if you READ my post that the actual difference between a scottish goal and PL goal works out at for every 10 PL goals= 12 Scottish goals. Dont trust me check out the Euro site.

Check out Larssons Euro goals, most of them were scored playing in the dodgy UEFA cup against guess what weak opponents (interesting that he has scored 9 goals in 9 appearances for his Swedish club)

As stated Fowler has scored goals at the highest level, whereas Larsson has not.

This is a prime example of what I was talking about in the Premier League Happenings thread.

You're on here having a very heated debate in which you are quite aggresively arguing in favour of Robbie Fowler. WHY?! How did you even get here? What do you think you are achieving?

As I said before, you are so desperate to counter balance what you see as Anti-Ince posts that you'll look to positively spin just about everything you can, even when it makes you look utterly ridiculous.

Take a step back and have a think about why you are even bothering. Surely it's not because you genuinely believe Robbie Fowler is a valuable addition to our team who is going to make a big impact. Asking us to tolerate him because he's a low cost back up is what you should be sticking to, atleast that made some sense.

[imy9]

This is a prime example of what I was talking about in the Premier League Happenings thread.

You're on here having a very heated debate in which you are quite aggresively arguing in favour of Robbie Fowler. WHY?! How did you even get here? What do you think you are achieving?

As I said before, you are so desperate to counter balance what you see as Anti-Ince posts that you'll look to positively spin just about everything you can, even when it makes you look utterly ridiculous.

Take a step back and have a think about why you are even bothering. Surely it's not because you genuinely believe Robbie Fowler is a valuable addition to our team who is going to make a big impact. Asking us to tolerate him because he's a low cost back up is what you should be sticking to, atleast that made some sense.

If you look back at that thread I asked the question- twice, what had I said was the "opposite of what I had said earlier", you declined to offer an opinion, waiting as it now seems apparent for me to "slip" up so you could make a point (tad sad)

Again I sigh "aggressively in favour of Fowler", because I think that he WAS a better player than Larsson? Maybe if you go back in the thread you will see that I did NOT bring this up (but that does not suit your agenda so please dont), I am merely offering an opinion about a player, which dozens have done.

"Desperate"- again please clarify with a point in reference to Ince, I have stated previously THREE points made against Ince which I supported him on, all three were false, and you chose to see them as fact, that is obviously something you need to think about, not me.

Please find me a comment on any thread where I have said that Fowler is anything more than a stop gap, a cheap one at that? Facts rather than cheap rhetoric would be nice to hear.

[T4E]

Yet here you still are, arguing with yet another person about the merits of Fowler vs Larsson and who WAS a better player. I'll ask you again - WHY?! What are you trying to achieve? You've lost yourself in the argument and you can't even see it.