[Archived] Middlesbrough Preview

[ABBEY]

save your energy tugs ,imy is the greatest fountain of knowledge on our beloved team.

[BuckyRover]

There was no argument to lose.

I was pointing out that signing Fowler was comparable to Ferguson signing Larsson. I said he never received vitriol for it, when it was obvious that Larsson did not improve Man Utd's first 11 he was just a squad player, like Fowler is.

[T4E]

Ferguson signed a player in Larsson who had just won the Champions League with Barcelona. You only need to go as far as Wiki to find out about the sort of player Henrik Larsson was when he signed for Man United -

With Henrik leaving us at the end of the season this club is losing a great scorer, no question. But I am also losing a great friend. Henrik was my idol and now that I am playing next to him it is fantastic."

"People always talk about Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Giuly and everything, but I didn't see them today—I saw Henrik Larsson. He came on—he changed the game, that is what killed the game. Sometimes you talk about Ronaldinho and Eto'o and people like that; you need to talk about the proper footballer who made the difference, and that was Henrik Larsson tonight."

Ince signed a player in Robbie Fowler that had been left out of Cardiff's FA Cup final squad, and had been offered a "pay as you play" deal by a club that finished 12th in the second tier of English football last season.

The two are in no way comparable.

[BuckyRover]

Apart from the fact we are nowhere near as good or as big as Man Utd?

[T4E]

So you're comparing it to Man United signing Larsson, then when I point out that it's not a good comparison, you say we're not as big as United? Then why did you make the original comparison?

[BuckyRover]

BECAUSE WE SIGNED A SQUAD PLAYER, SOMEBODY NOT GOING TO GO STRAIGHT INTO THE STARTING LINE UP.

PEOPLE WERE SAYING WHY DID WE SIGN HIM IF HE ISN'T GOING TO IMPROVE THE STARTING ELEVEN.

BECAUSE TEAMS NEED SQUAD PLAYERS, THEY NEED TO COVER INJURIES ETC. ETC. WE DIDNT NEED TO SPEND MONEY WE JUST NEEDED A BIT PART PLAYER WITH LOTS OF EXPERIENCE TO FILL IN AS AND WHEN REQUIRED (NOT VERY OFTEN, LIKE LARSSON WHO MADE 7 APPEARANCES)

THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU

[T4E]

So your comparison was that Larsson and Fowler were both signed as squad players? Not that they were both 30 something strikers who had apparently seen better days? You know as well as the rest of us do that your point was that Larsson and Fowler were similar standard players when each signing took place, which is why you think they are comparable. As I've just shown you above, thats complete nonsense.

[ABBEY]

BECAUSE WE SIGNED A SQUAD PLAYER, SOMEBODY NOT GOING TO GO STRAIGHT INTO THE STARTING LINE UP.

PEOPLE WERE SAYING WHY DID WE SIGN HIM IF HE ISN'T GOING TO IMPROVE THE STARTING ELEVEN.

BECAUSE TEAMS NEED SQUAD PLAYERS, THEY NEED TO COVER INJURIES ETC. ETC. WE DIDNT NEED TO SPEND MONEY WE JUST NEEDED A BIT PART PLAYER WITH LOTS OF EXPERIENCE TO FILL IN AS AND WHEN REQUIRED (NOT VERY OFTEN, LIKE LARSSON WHO MADE 7 APPEARANCES)

THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU

and i get warnings for caps.

[JAL]

BECAUSE WE SIGNED A SQUAD PLAYER, SOMEBODY NOT GOING TO GO STRAIGHT INTO THE STARTING LINE UP.

PEOPLE WERE SAYING WHY DID WE SIGN HIM IF HE ISN'T GOING TO IMPROVE THE STARTING ELEVEN.

BECAUSE TEAMS NEED SQUAD PLAYERS, THEY NEED TO COVER INJURIES ETC. ETC. WE DIDNT NEED TO SPEND MONEY WE JUST NEEDED A BIT PART PLAYER WITH LOTS OF EXPERIENCE TO FILL IN AS AND WHEN REQUIRED (NOT VERY OFTEN, LIKE LARSSON WHO MADE 7 APPEARANCES)

THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU

Dont talk crap!

We need good players who are EFFECTIVE when needed on the field of play.

[BuckyRover]

So your comparison was that Larsson and Fowler were both signed as squad players? Not that they were both 30 something strikers who had apparently seen better days? You know as well as the rest of us do that your point was that Larsson and Fowler were similar standard players when each signing took place, which is why you think they are comparable. As I've just shown you above, thats complete nonsense.

It was exactly the same when Ferguson signed Larsson from Helsingborgs. Except that Fowler is younger and was playing in a higher quality league.

He wasn't better than all of their strikers. He was there to make up the numbers. Like Fowler is.

Cheers mate

Dont talk crap!

We need good players who are EFFECTIVE when needed on the field of play.

Yes we did, and we still do, only problem is that the majority of them are not FREE.

How can you blame that on Ince? Do you think he didn't want to spend money? He can't waste it.

Give him a chance. Try supporting him. It makes you feel better.

This is like arguing with my grandad (He is in the anti-Ince brigade)

[T4E]

It was exactly the same when Ferguson signed Larsson from Helsingborgs. Except that Fowler is younger and was playing in a higher quality league.

He wasn't better than all of their strikers. He was there to make up the numbers. Like Fowler is.

Larsson made 11 appearances for United in 2 months and 5 days. He was not making up the numbers, he featured A LOT.

But don't let facts get in the way of your nonsense. Fowler signing for us on a permanent contract is EXACTLY THE SAME as when Ferguson took Larsson on loan for 2 months.

[BuckyRover]

Pay as you play until Christmas is a permanent contract? Are you sure?

You already insisted I said something I didn't, stop digging.

It is similar in the sense he needed a cheap stop gap, which is exactly what both of them are. How can you not see that? Both experienced heads on the training ground.

[T4E]

Yes I'm sure. It's not a loan, it's not a trial, it's a contract between Fowler and the club, therefore it's permanent.

So.......was it "similar" or "exactly the same"? Who's digging?

[BuckyRover]

Not exactly the same. We are Blackburn they are Man Utd, they signed Larsson we signed Fowler.

A short term, cheap measure of signing a old, experienced player intended to strengthen the squad but not the starting line up.

Happy?

[T4E]

Yet Larsson played in 11 games in 2 months.

Not so good with the reading, are we?

[BuckyRover]

A short term, cheap measure of signing a old, experienced player intended to strengthen the squad but not the starting line up.

Why did Utd have to resort to a signing somebody for 2 months? Is that because they just needed someone to tide them over until they signed somebody else? Why didn't they spend 20m on a player in that January transfer window instead of Larsson? Because they wanted a TEMPORARY fix. Which is EXACTLY what Fowler is?

He didn't strengthen their line up. He was only signed due to injuries. Fowler was signed to top up the squad, like Larsson was.

[neekoy]

Bucky I am not sure that's actually what happened, my understanding of what happened was Larsson had amade a comittment to go back to Sweden, Helsingborgs was short on cash, Utd wanted him badly, Larsson was the one who agreed a short term move as his family stayed in Sweden.

The fact that Utd tried to extend the deal many times says ample, whilst he was there he was an extremely important figure to the team, almost Ole Gunnaresk.

Thanks for correcting my maths Phillip, my sliding scale was a little off last night.

I had an argument with my Liverpool mate this morning when I was discussing this very point

I said it doesn't matter what league they play in, Pele never played in Europe, when a player is class a player is class and you can see what they give on the pitch.

Morientes failed in the PL, same with Sheva, but to call them somehow lower then Andy Cole because of the fact is ridiculous.

If Larsson had decided to play his entire career in the PL he would have been up there with Shearer. Not just as a goalscorer but also as an influence.

[Exiled_Rover]

Wasted his career in the SPL for mine, but there's no doubting his class.

[BuckyRover]

Bucky I am not sure that's actually what happened, my understanding of what happened was Larsson had amade a comittment to go back to Sweden, Helsingborgs was short on cash, Utd wanted him badly, Larsson was the one who agreed a short term move as his family stayed in Sweden.

The fact that Utd tried to extend the deal many times says ample, whilst he was there he was an extremely important figure to the team, almost Ole Gunnaresk.

Thanks for correcting my maths Phillip, my sliding scale was a little off last night.

I had an argument with my Liverpool mate this morning when I was discussing this very point

I said it doesn't matter what league they play in, Pele never played in Europe, when a player is class a player is class and you can see what they give on the pitch.

Morientes failed in the PL, same with Sheva, but to call them somehow lower then Andy Cole because of the fact is ridiculous.

If Larsson had decided to play his entire career in the PL he would have been up there with Shearer. Not just as a goalscorer but also as an influence.

If Fowler does well for us I am sure Ince will try to extend the deal.

It doesn't change the fact that when both deals were agreed they were both agreed on a temporary basis. They were both experienced and intended to add to the squad.

Are you seriously trying to say they thought a 35 year old could be a long term regular in their side?

[T4E]

A short term, cheap measure of signing a old, experienced player intended to strengthen the squad but not the starting line up.

Why did Utd have to resort to a signing somebody for 2 months? Is that because they just needed someone to tide them over until they signed somebody else? Why didn't they spend 20m on a player in that January transfer window instead of Larsson? Because they wanted a TEMPORARY fix. Which is EXACTLY what Fowler is?

He didn't strengthen their line up. He was only signed due to injuries. Fowler was signed to top up the squad, like Larsson was.

I've looked in to it further, and Larsson actually played 13 games for United in his two months, in which they won 10, drew 2 and lost 1 (away to Arsenal, thanks to a last minute goal from Henry). Sounds like he had a pretty big impact there to me, and he certainly wasn't making up the numbers. In fact, in the time he was at United, there was only 1 game (out of 14) that Larsson didn't feature in.

For some reason you're desperate to defend the Fowler signing, and you seem to think comparing it to Ferguson signing Larsson will help that. Once again, it is clearly being shown that the two were nothing like each other.

[den]

I've looked in to it further, and Larsson actually played 13 games for United in his two months, in which they won 10, drew 2 and lost 1 (away to Arsenal, thanks to a last minute goal from Henry). Sounds like he had a pretty big impact there to me, and he certainly wasn't making up the numbers. In fact, in the time he was at United, there was only 1 game (out of 14) that Larsson didn't feature in.

For some reason you're desperate to defend the Fowler signing, and you seem to think comparing it to Ferguson signing Larsson will help that. Once again, it is clearly being shown that the two were nothing like each other.

Leave it alone Toogs. Not worth the hassle.

Larsson at United was class, Fowler at Rovers isn't. End of story really.

Fergy knew Larsson was still good enough. Ince thought Fowler was still good enough. One was right, one was wrong.

[BuckyRover]

Ok.

If that is the case, why did they sign 35 year old and not spend ££££ on a younger striker. Maybe because he saw him as a short term solution?

Can you not see that? You are so stubborn. You cannot accept when you are wrong. Ince needed a signing to tide the squad over for a few months to a season, Ferguson needed the same (he even wanted to sign him for another season but he wanted to go back to Sweden).

THEY ARE BOTH OLD, BOTH SIGNED AS SHORT TERM SOLUTIONS.

Do you really think if he had signed him for another season he would have played him every game? A 35/36 year old striker playing for Man Utd over 60 games??

Larsson is obviously a bit better than Fowler, which is why he played more games. I am sure if we could have signed a 35 year old Larsson who wanted to join us, Ince would have done that instead of signing Ince. It happens that Fowler was an experienced Premiership striker who was available on the cheap.

Which 33/35 year old striker would you have signed for us?

[T4E]

Which 33/35 year old striker would you have signed for us?

None you absolute plank, thats the whole bloody point!!!!!!!!! Why are we wasting time on an aging has been who has done nothing for years, when we already had 5 strikers AND money to spend if we decided we needed to improve on that. In Fowler we've got a player in who is worse than everyone we already had, and is a complete waste of time.

That question just shows how very little you have understood about this situation and the feeling surrounding it.

[CrazyIvan]

Larsson at United was class, Fowler at Rovers isn't. End of story really.

Fergy knew Larsson was still good enough. Ince thought Fowler was still good enough. One was right, one was wrong.

I agree with this too... Fowler is genuinely the worst player I've seen in a blue and white shirt for a very long time. Fortunately he's only on a pay as you play and for a couple of months more. I sincerely hope Ince and the club dispense with his services after that. Fowler has, up to now, proved nothing. If he suddenly pops up with a number of good performances and produces goals then who knows, I'll be the first to say 'I was wrong to say he is cr@p'...

[LeChuck]

If that is the case, why did they sign 35 year old and not spend ££££ on a younger striker. Maybe because he saw him as a short term solution?

You seem to be completely missing the biggest issue.

Larsson was obviously still good enough to be plying his trade at the top end of the Premiership, he'd been at Barcelona only a few months before he arrived at Old Trafford.

Fowler, on the other hand, had drastically deteriorated over the best part of a decade to the point where he'd become a squad player in the Championship. Why do you think no other club in the Premiership wanted him then or the summer before? Age/experience/short term/long term/squad player/first teamer....it's all really, really irrelevant if the player in question is sodding useless!