[Archived] The 2-1 Villa Preview Thread

[jonv]

can we not get the M.O.T.M polls back?

[CAPT KAYOS]

As I said before the game - the way to go was to attack the achiles heal we all know about, shame we left it until the end of the game.

However, there would appear to be some very over optimistic and naive viewpoints being posted on here.

I didn't see the game so can only comment on what has been posted and previous games , however my opinions.

1. The played well and should have won is becoming a bit consistent in my book and starting to grate - if it wasn't early in the season I would be raging - fancy football without being convincing and ruthless (another of our traits) and is pointless if it doesn't result in wins - and if they don't start to appear the heads will drop, as was mentioned last night, and we all know what that leads to

2. The changing of the team - again - and playing players out of position is the main problem - no wonder we appear all at sea when things start going wrong - there are no units being formed on the pitch - especially up front, when has there been a consistent run of games for a partnership to form an understanding.

3. Switching off - yet again and our naivety of not closing down crosses - I said before this is a big problem of ours and not just since Ince has been here.

4. Yet to be convinced that the defensive coach (who is it again - has he arrived yet? _) is of any advantage.

5. Villa where poor - yet still won and scored three goals - where' our excuse.

As for the pro /anti Ince argument - I am in support of Ince and have been since the start, however he doesn't appear to be learning from mistakes - there are people on here slagging anybody off and bringing up the anti Ince for questioning certain aspects which are blatantly in obvious need of addressing and don't appear to be.

For me we need to get back to basics , and get players back in positions they are more accustomed to and start showing the determination to try and win games instead of labouring ahead of the defence with 'training' football.

Hughesy - If I was you I would give up - you explanations for your arguments are playing you up for a fool and following the line of Ince's comments - just because Agbonlahor is quick - just doesn't mean we have to accept it - same as Ince's jibbering about UTD being a top team blah bla blah.

We are supposed to be competing - think its about time we begin to start showing it, as we only appear to turn up for prts of games.

[only2garners]

If the Chilean isnt doing much away from home and can only maintain 45 minutes performance during any game is it really worth splashing nearly £5m on the lad who obviously doesnt posses great pace to begin with.

He was man of the match in the Independent.

[BRFC95]

just because Agbonlahor is quick - just doesn't mean we have to accept it

Not sure I understand that

[den]

I'm not convinced myself Mr.Creosote you might well be right but then Ince is probably stubborn enough to force the deal through as its his baby.

Don Mackay said that Carlos was the poorest performer and thought he was struggling with prem football.

[T4E]

Not sure I understand that

He's absolutely right. I'll say it again - Samba is marking Agbonlahor, but he's standing IN THEIR HALF. Defensive mistakes do no get any more basic than that. He allowed Agbonlahor to have a head start on him, but still be in his own half so not threatened by the offside flag. It's worse than schoolboy defending, it's ridiculously embarassing. What the hell was he playing at?!

[joey_big_nose]

Don Mackay said that Carlos was the poorest performer and thought he was struggling with prem football.

Its an intereting dilemma with him. He clearly is the most imaginative player we have, and the one who can pull something out of nothing. But on the other hand he clearly lacks the raw atleticism that 95% of the players in the Prem posess. Theres not many of his type around - Deco maybe? (although obviously he has a lot more pedigree) Zola? (but then he was a genius and had a bit of pace)

Anybody think of any good comparisons? Being slow and small is a pretty weak combination. But if we took him out and put in Roberts for example we would suddenly look more athletic but lose a lot of creativity in the final third.

As for the Benni/Cruz combo debate- I was dead against it, but I have seen more adaptability this season in the way Cruz plays and Benni does seems to actually want to be in the team. The crucial thing for them is that Benni some fitness so that he can cover some ground, and they work out a relationship where one looks to run the opposition back line and the other drops off.

When they played together last season they both dropped off all the time leaaving no one up top and bennis level would stand nearly still for most of the game.

If Ince can find a way to get Cruz and McCarthy to actually perform together up front we could see some very very attractive football.

[Bobby G]

Where was he quoted in saying that Den? Or did he say it to you?

I think he has the creative spark but he desperately lacks pace, although he tracks back quite alot and isnt afraid to defend. He dwells on the ball too much, but his passing and through balls are very good. He has good vision and he is trying and determined thats for sure.

It will take more time, but at the moment the jury is out on whether he will be successful in this league.

[jim mk2]

If Ince can find a way to get Cruz and McCarthy to actually perform together up front we could see some very very attractive football.

They would still need good quality crosses delivered into the box and how many crosses (of any quality ?) were delivered last night ?

The best one I remember was in the 2nd half from the right by either Andrews (or Emerton) but McCarthy made no attempt to get in front in the defender and get a touch on the ball.

Emerton played well but is still more effective coming from deep at right back; the team desperately needs a natural winger/crosser of the ball, from left or right, if Cruz or McCarthy are to score goals.

[Parsonblue]

I thought we played exceptionally well for seventy minutes last night but once again, we look weak were it matters most - in the opposition penalty area and defending our own goal! Some of our football last night was wonderful to watch but at the end of the day it's results that matter. I think that there is no doubt that like seven or eight other clubs around us we are on the brink of a relegation battle and we need to get some points sooner rather than later.

Those who think we are too good to go down clearly weren't around in 1965-66 when we managed to sleepwalk our way out of the top flight for a quarter of a century.

Having read the posts on this thread this morning - after another difficult journey home on the M6 - I can't help feeling that the debate with regard to pro-Hughes/anti-Ince is all a bit pointless. The fact is that the Mark Hughes era is now history. It was great while it lasted, we achieved more success than we had a right to expect and I am sure that many us of thoroughly enjoyed our European trips. However, it is now in the past and the focus must be on the club as it is today.

I don't believe it to be negative to be concerned about our present League position. Two points from the last 12 is a reason for concern particularly as we are playing some good football but seem unable to convert that into points. In truth, I thought that there were times last night, particularly in the second half, when we overplayed and, as a result, lost possession too easily.

At the moment we aren't defending well as a team. A good example was the second goal last night when Ooijer had to come across from left-back to try and stop an attack on the right hand side. Defensively, we are being pulled out of position far too easily - again the third goal found Simpson way out of position with Samba - who I thought was very indifferent last night - having to cope with the pace of Agbonlahor. As well as Warnock has played in midfield - and I thought he had his best game in that position last night - I do feel we miss him at left-back. I would like to see Ooijer given an extended run in the centre of defence rather than being moved around on an almost weekly basis. I suspect that while the manager wants to keep Samba and Nelsen in the centre of his defence he is astute enough to know that Ooijer is probably our most experienced and, for me, our best natural defender. However, I don't think moving him around is doing him any favours and he didn't look comfortable at left-back last night.

The midfield is the real cause for concern. I still believe that Tugay is our best central midfield player but obviously he can't play every game. Grella is still an unknown quantity and Andrews - who looked impressive last night - is still finding his feet at this level. I wasn't impressed with Pedersen last night. I know he had a decent effort that was well saved by Brad, but I lost count of the times he lost possession of the ball in midfield and he simply hasn't got the pace to try to get past a full-back. I could understand why Ince tried Olsson on the left and, having watched Olsson play wide-left for the Reserves for the past twelve months, I think he might be due a run in the first team in this position. For the Reserves he has looked dangerous in that his pace has enabled him to get past defenders and his crossing has been good.

I think the jury is out on Carlos at the moment. Like so many other South Americans he has real flair but the question remains as to whether he can harness that flair with the physique necessary for the English game. At the moment £5 million looks a tad expensive but hopefully by the end of the season he will have proven his worth.

Without Roque our attack looks rather ineffective. I thought Benni played well in the first half with regard to his link up play but he rarely threatened in terms of scoring goals. Roberts, Derbyshire and Fowler have all been tried up front with varying degrees of success but, again, I think we may need to strengthen when the window opens.

One thing that stood out for me last night was just how pedestrian some or our play is compared with teams who have genuine pace. Villa always had an out ball to Agbonlahor who could run at the opposition in the same way that Bellamy used to do for us. I think this is something that must be addressed in January.

While I returned home last night very encouraged by the performance I remain concerned about our League position. We are in a battle for Premiership survival - like most of the other club's in the bottom half of the table and if we ignore that fact we risk losing our Premiership status. West Brom is now a crucial six-pointer and I hope I can return home from the Hawthorns celebrating not just a good performance but three welcome points!

[den]

Where was he quoted in saying that Den? Or did he say it to you?

He was the commentator on Radio Lancs and he said it in his after match summary. I've said it before, but rovers are going to have a difficult decision, can they use £4/5m better? I think they can.

[Hughesy]

I didn't see the game so can only comment on what has been posted and previous games , however my opinions.

2. The changing of the team - again - and playing players out of position is the main problem - no wonder we appear all at sea when things start going wrong - there are no units being formed on the pitch - especially up front, when has there been a consistent run of games for a partnership to form an understanding.

just because Agbonlahor is quick - just doesn't mean we have to accept it - same as Ince's jibbering about UTD being a top team blah bla blah.

We bossed the game, we simply made some stupid defensive errors. Blame the defence and the defence coach.

Changing of the team? Grella & Roque were both injured - what do you suggest, we play them regardless?

And because Agbonloawhore is quick so we dont have to accept it?? What do we do then? Try and hurt him and get a man sent off? Put a rocket on Nelsen? What do you suggest?

[1864roverite]

Having watched the footie first edition I have to say that I was impressed with some aspects of our game.

At last we saw pass and move, the basics of football.

As not a fan of Andrews, he did have a good game.

Rovers simple passing game leaves only one issue to discuss, the lack of support for the striker. Its great to see fancy passing but it brings the lone forward much deeper and leaves a lack of support in the penalty area where we only appear to see our midfielders and not the forward (s).

Three very expensive defensive mistakes by experienced international players cost us, especially after we took a bigger % of the game, had more chances. Very impressed with BERT once again. What he has done to improve his game should be an example to MGP who once again appeared cud apart from his stinging volley.

Carlos appeared the weak link from the game I saw and it should have been him taken off to lighten the load of the midfield after 70 minutes.

All in all vey disappointing.

[Hughesy]

He was the commentator on Radio Lancs and he said it in his after match summary. I've said it before, but rovers are going to have a difficult decision, can they use £4/5m better? I think they can.

On who?

[den]

On who?

Yawn.

Someone better than Carlos. Doesn't matter who does it?

[AndyC]

He was the commentator on Radio Lancs and he said it in his after match summary. I've said it before, but rovers are going to have a difficult decision, can they use £4/5m better? I think they can.

i'd agree with you on the evidence so far.

lets be honest - there will not be many teams that come to villa park and play them off the park for 3/4 of the game. I think they have a real chance of grabbing 4th this year - especially if they buy in jan to add to their excellent squad.

I don't think we will struggle this season - i'm expecting a mid table finish. Fingers crossed he makes some good additions to the squad.

Hughes never sorted out central midfield and its costing us now. Lets see if ince can do a better job....

[T4E]

On who?

Thats a really flawed argument mate - it's as if you're saying that we might as well spend the £5m on Carlos because we can't think of anyone else to buy. Isn't that exactly what people were saying they were glad we didn't do in the transfer window?

We're not scouts on here, it's not up to us to find better targets. That's down to the club.

[den]

There is another way with Carlos.

JW, if he can, will try to knock the price down to one that's acceptable to all parties. If he can't do that because of the prior agreement he made with Carlos's club, and it's £5m or nothing, at the moment I would let him go.

Hopefully Carlos will prove me wrong.

[LeChuck]

And because Agbonloawhore is quick so we dont have to accept it?? What do we do then? Try and hurt him and get a man sent off? Put a rocket on Nelsen? What do you suggest?

What nonsense Hughesy, I don't know why you keep going with this.

Agbonlahor is faster than every single Premiership defender, so by your theory he should be getting through on goal in every game. There are ways of defending against pace like that, other teams manage it. Going past the half way line and giving him a head start is not one of the ways.

[CAPT KAYOS]

What nonsense Hughesy, I don't know why you keep going with this.

Agbonlahor is faster than every single Premiership defender, so by your theory he should be getting through on goal in every game. There are ways of defending against pace like that, other teams manage it. Going past the half way line and giving him a head start is not one of the ways.

Hughesy - this is exactly what I was getting at.

As for the rest - we have rushed players back from injury and tried to accommodate then in a mixed up formation when there are players available in the correct positions.

I hate to say it , but amongst the bit of candy play we do not apear to be addressing the weaknesses with alot of it down to our own ineptivity and lack of determination.

[gazsimm]

He's absolutely right. I'll say it again - Samba is marking Agbonlahor, but he's standing IN THEIR HALF. Defensive mistakes do no get any more basic than that. He allowed Agbonlahor to have a head start on him, but still be in his own half so not threatened by the offside flag. It's worse than schoolboy defending, it's ridiculously embarassing. What the hell was he playing at?!

Maybe Samba got caught out a bit because we were chasing for an equaliser then!!!.

I thought Andrews was very good last night for us as long with EMO. The one player who has let me down this season up to now is Ryan Nelson, i think he is having an awful season and has lost even more pace which is not helping his cause. I much Prefer Samba and Oojier at Center half rather then Nelson and Samba

[T4E]

Maybe Samba got caught out a bit because we were chasing for an equaliser then!!!.

How was standing a yard inside the Villa half helping that then? If he'd been caught up field at a set piece thats one thing, but he was within 5 yards of Agbonlahor but crucially just inside Villa's half. Absolutely suicidal, I cannot emphasise enough how incredibly poor that is.

[modes98]

If our forward play was so great WHY could we not come back against Villa, you say there was twenty minutes left yet the game was lost thats a huge amount of time left in a game to do something i'd have thought.

(Regarding MGP coming in from wide is that in order to support the lone striker)

I think the main reason we couldn't come back was the void left by Santa Cruz. Benni just couldn't get on the end of moves and create chances for himself. We had good opportunities and build up plays, even after they got their second.

Re MGP: I think that's what he was trying to do but it didn't work as Carlos was already doing that very well. Carlos would get the ball and look to the left but MGP wasn't there and Ooijer wasn't a good option as he had to check onto his right foot, thus taking the flow and speed out of the attack. It was only a minor point as I thought everyone had a good game and we deserved the points. With Santa Cruz fully fit i think we would have beaten Boro and Villa.

[JAL]

I think the main reason we couldn't come back was the void left by Santa Cruz. Benni just couldn't get on the end of moves and create chances for himself. We had good opportunities and build up plays, even after they got their second.

Re MGP: I think that's what he was trying to do but it didn't work as Carlos was already doing that very well. Carlos would get the ball and look to the left but MGP wasn't there and Ooijer wasn't a good option as he had to check onto his right foot, thus taking the flow and speed out of the attack. It was only a minor point as I thought everyone had a good game and we deserved the points. With Santa Cruz fully fit i think we would have beaten Boro and Villa.

Can we afford to weight all our expectations on one player.

[CrazyIvan]

Can we afford to weight all our expectations on one player.

Never. It shouldn't be that way. Not Ince's fault mind you.