[Archived] West Brom Preview

[T4E]

Just got back....

As a big Ince fan that was abysmal. 4-1 would have been a fair result. For 60 minutes we chased shadows. WBA knocked it around with ease and pumped quality ball after quality ball into our box.

The ref was abysmal. I never mention refs but this bloke had both sets of fans singing "You're not fit to referee" in tandem. The McCarthy decisions seemed awful. Slightly caught the defender both stood up running for the ball. First yellow. Then Benni was pushed so he deliberately left his arm out to knock the ball down as a gesture of the foul. Like most players do when fouled. A second yellow.

The ref lost it completely and must have awarded abut 10 consecutive free kicks to WBA because he felt guilty over the penalty and the WBA fans were on his back. Roberts, who was rank, was pushed over with an arm when running into the box. Clear cut penalty dismissed away. Awful. I think the ref knew he was making the wrong decisions but was trying to level up the previous bad decisions he knew he had made.

Andrews was abysmal. The game to fast and too competitive he might as well have been sat next to me in the stand. He hadn't a clue what to do and the game passed him by. Grella looked a championship player. Savage ran around more and gave it away less. Roberts should NEVER wear the shirt again. He obviously believes his biggest asset is to fall over for free kicks. All our good attacks floundered at his feet ever time. I believe he would be better moving to Fulham.

We missed Warnock in Central Midfield badly.

The pluses. Olson had a great game. Time after time he tackled the wide players and with Warnock (LM) covered the overlapping full back. Emerton was class. Ran and ran and unlike previous years, see's the goal.. shoots (on target as well!). Nelsen marshalled the defence up the pitch whenever possible. Benni scored. Set pieces; The shambles that was Hughes has gone and we look organised. Delivery is 400% better, defensively we are 200% more organised. That's about it.

1. Robinson - 6 - not sure he couldn't have got closer to their second. Other wise good.

2. Simpson - 5 - solidish - made some mistakes.

3. Olson - 7 - Kept tight, won his tackles

4. Grella - 3 - Gave the ball away time and again. Bring back Savage.

5. Samba - 7 - battled hard, gave 110%. Lack of communication at times

6. Nelsen - 7 - won most of the headers - marshalled the defence

7. Emerton - 8 - Top class for effort and delivery

8. Andrews - 3 - Game passed him by without a kick. Only in the last 10 minutes when the team put in the effort did he find time and space to shoot

9. Roberts - 1 - Negative contribution due to endless free kicks WBA won from his clumsy physical clueless approach.

10. Benni - 6 - looked sharper fitter. Bagged the pen. Won some nice balls and put Roberts in with a great pass (Roberts fell over!)

11. Warnock - 6 - Helped 'seal' up the left side. Looked lost and wasted there and contribution much reduced.

12 MGP - 4 - Rubbish. Tackeld easily, looked weak, failed to deliver a single cross. Nearly scored a fee kick.

13 Tugay - 5 - Ineffective. Grella and Andrews had already long lost the midfield battle.

14 Zurab - 3 - Brought on as right back. Probably said "Boss I have never played there before".

Wow, I'm shocked at that, most of it is in direct contrast with what we'd previously been led to believe.

On the plus side, top marks seem to have gone to the defenders, infact the top 4 players there were our back 4 in the second half I believe. Should we be hopeful for the upcoming games after this defensive performance?

[RevidgeBlue]

The people on Radio Lancs thought the sending off was a shocking decision, they said Benni was fouled from behind and his upper arm/shoulder made contact with the ball.

Was that how those who went saw it?

[LeChuck]

The people on Radio Lancs thought the sending off was a shocking decision, they said Benni was fouled from behind and his upper arm/shoulder made contact with the ball.

Was that how those who went saw it?

Even Mowbray said it was never a sending off so it must have been a bad decision. We did get an undeserved penalty though.

Edit: I was expecting it to be an awful decision, but instead I just feel like McCarthy is utterly stupid. The first yellow was absolutely deserved, he just kicked out at their player, and the second was a deliberate hand ball, which is a bookable offence under the rules. What on earth was he thinking?

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Just watched it on MOTD, Benni was stupid, but the second was harsh. Either way, a smashing goal by Miller, and also by Andrews.

EDIT: Also, Robinson saved us at the end. Made some decent saves.

[Tom]

Even Mowbray said it was never a sending off so it must have been a bad decision. We did get an undeserved penalty though.

Edit: I was expecting it to be an awful decision, but instead I just feel like McCarthy is utterly stupid. The first yellow was absolutely deserved, he just kicked out at their player, and the second was a deliberate hand ball, which is a bookable offence under the rules. What on earth was he thinking?

How is it an undeserved pen sorry? It was a clear foul it was in the box i don't see the confusion?

Maybe other refs wouldn't give it but that doesn't make it undeserved. No doubt about it for me.

[troybo1]

Same here ,just seen it on MOTD, WOW, that has to be one of the softest penalties ever given.Though correct ,wow, even Benni when the whistle blows, you can see he's thinking WTF.

The sending off, again the ref unforunatly has played to the letter of the law.Benni gets a shove in the back and sticks his arm out as in ' I was fouled there ref ' not even remotely trying to gain advantage.

Getting mixed reactions from the post on here, MOTD proved nothing.Sounded like Rovers played excellent second half on 'soccer sat' but i think Motd only showed about 10 sec.Point gained for me.

I get the feeling Chelsea game is going to be a bit like Man u n Hull today, we get hammered but put up a spirited fightback.Its going to be a rollercoaster this season but i dont think we will ever be in danger of going down.(p.s. if i can get at least 8-1 on Rovers beating Chelsea i'm having a go).

Whilst i'm here, i want to give a big thanks to all that post match reports and player ratings on here. Its why i come on. Oh and all you guys that do the previews.I love you all

See you at Pompey

[Parsonblue]

Firstly the referee was truely awful. We have had some poor ones in recent times but this was the worst by a country mile. How the FA can expect 'Respect' for clowns like this is beyond me. Twenty-four thousand people paid good money to watch this match and it was ruined by a guy who appeared completely out of his depth. The sending off seemed harsh as Benni was pushed as he went for the ball. Yet minutes later a Rovers player was hacked down from behind the WBA player wasn't even spoken to by the ref.

I thought we handled the situation well up to half time and defended with confidence. Whatever the reason for withdrawing Simpson at half-time I thought it was the right one. He didn't enjoy the best of games on Wednesday and I thought he was poor again today. While Nelsen got turned very easily by Miller for the second goal, I thought he was the better of the two centre-backs. Surely, the time has come for Ooijer to be given an extended run in the middle of the defence as Samba's positional play is suspect.

Our midfield wasn't the best today. Warnock was wasted playing wide out on the left. Grella, was very disappointing, his distribution was poor and he seemed off the pace again - I can only assume he wasn't really fit. Andrews scored a super goal but otherwise his contribution wasn't that great. Brett was excellent and Tugay was able to get the ball and pass it around with more accuracey than Grella and Andrews combined. However, I get the feeling that the manager is not really sure what his best midfield combination is at the moment.

The real problem in the second half was that we began by sitting back and allowing Albion to completely overwhelm us. If they had been better around the penalty area they would have won with ease as we were very poor during the second half for all but the final few minutes. Roberts, although he got some tough treatment from the West Brom defence, struggled up front on his own. He seems to find it difficult to retain the ball and is far too easily knocked over for such a big guy. In truth, we never looked like scoring apart from a gift penalty and a last ditch goal from Andrews.

I came away relieved that we had a point but I must admit that I becoming increasingly concerned about the immediate future. We aren't creating too many chances and yet the opposition seem to threaten every time they get near our area. I think that the manager and his coaches have got a lot of work to do.

While I applaud the manager's attempts to adopt a more attractive style of play we are, at the moment, becoming a soft touch. Three points out the last fifteen is worrying, particularly with Chelsea next up. At the moment was ARE involved in a relegation battle and points are more important than the style of football at this stage.

Hopefully, Ince was come through these difficult times all the stronger. It's certainly proving a steep learning curve for him.

[AggyBlue]

That must have been the worst ref I've ever seen. How can we be expected to compete in a football match when the ref doesn't let you play. After giving us a soft penalty he gave them free kicks for every challenge we made, foul or not. Is it any wonder we spent most of the match under pressure. I'm just surprised they never got a pen, he gave them just about everything else.

Great attitude shown by the lads though, yet again they showed 'never say die' and kept going right until the end. Good finish by Andrews.

Special mention too for Roberts, the lad must be covered in bruises, he got kicked from pillar to post all afternoon, more so after Benni went for his early bath and he was left isolated up front thirty odd yards in front of the rest of the team.

I see all the kn0bs have been online again during the match, slagging the players and staff. Can some explain how they manage to come up with all that tripe sat in front of their pc watching the BBC's teleprinter? Maybe it's time the messageboard started going 'offline' during match time.

[tcj_jones]

5 late points shows that to be a pretty daft statement.

January is very important for this club. Ince needs to get in at least 4-5 new players who will play his style and move us forward. Not worried about this season, but if he doesn't get the players to build on what has been started, we are in trouble next season.

Unfortunately, I doubt very much that we will see any more than one, maybe two new signings this January and neither will be of any real quality.

How long is Ince going to persevere with a defence that can't stop conceding?

We now have the worst defensive record in the entire league - 20 goals conceded in total. Considering our defence has been one of our strong points over the last few years, I find it staggering that Ince has managed to turn it in to the worst in the Premiership.

This is a criticism that should be levelled at Hughes rather than Ince IMO, for he has inherited a shaky defence and hasn't had the time nor the means to improve it. I have to say that I disagree with your view that our defence was a strong point under the last regime, because we didn't look capable of defending a set piece for the four seasons Hughes was in charge, we never had any pace at the back and I continue to witness the same individuals making mistakes over and over.

Funnily enough, Robinson, despite everybody's reservations, has actually been one of our best performers this season. He's cut out his mistakes in the air and is looking a quality replacement for Friedel.

[andrew92]

ive jus got in from work and read grahams assessment! which i think would probably be a fair reflection, i just heard to much on the radio before that rovers have given the ball away too much stupidly, without actually seeing the goals yet i believe thats hw w conceded the second i think, giving the ball away! ahh well could be worse!! could be an arsenal fan lol drew to your local rivals after winning most of the match then lost to stoke!

[AggyBlue]

ive jus got in from work and read grahams assessment! which i think would probably be a fair reflection,

How would you know, you weren't there.

[sambo]

I don't see why there should be so much doom and gloom. Albion will have been buoyed by their home support and this was evidently a big game for them. They'll be hurting after the Hull game (which they didn't deserve to lose) and we could have got a backlash. Obviously going down to 10 men didn't help, along with a completely inept referee who post-penalty gave us nothing! We may have capitulated slightly second half, but a passing team like Albion who try and play football are always going to exploit the extra man - didn't help that they went gung ho either. I'm pleased with the resiliance to get a draw, and pleased for Andrews - who played well and scored a very good goal - the cynics will find some excuse to boo him next week!

Robinson 8 Good game, made a fantastic save at the end

Simpson 6 Wasn't great

Nelsen 7 Was strong bar a 15 minute period

Samba 7 ^

Olsson 7 Played quite well, although does scare me!

Emerton 8 I thought he was great - worked his socks off

Andrews 7.5 A decent, polished performance capped by a good goal

Grella 7 Was wasteful at times but battled hard and did okay.

Warnock 7 Did ok!

Benni 6 Did okay and was a great pen, but obviously got the red.

Roberts 8 Battled hard on his own for large periods - not a fan but he got battered today by their defence and came through

Pedersen 6 Wasteful

Tugay 6 Didn't influence much

[jim mk2]

Questions to those who went:

1) It looks from the statistics that the ref went completely overboard with the whistle- was he that bad and was it a nailed on penalty for us?

2) Did Simpson have such a bad first half to warrant pulling him off at half time?

3) Does Mr Jones resemble Mr Clattenburg?- thenodrog is anxious to find out.

I had the misfortune to be sitting with Albion fans (for various reasons) but to answer your questions:

1. The referee showed his inexperience (to put it mildly) and it was technically a penalty because Roberts' shirt was being pulled.

2. No

3. Cannot say - wouldn't know either if I crossed them in the street.

Some observations from the match:

1. Rovers looked disjointed compared to the fine passing game on show at Villa but battled and worked tremendously hard.

2. My first sighting of Grella and I was not impressed.

3. Congratulations to Ince on his late substitutions - Pedersen playing up front particularly.

4. Avoiding relegation is going to be one hell of a struggle.

5. Left the ground on the whistle and noticed McCarthy already sitting on the Rovers team coach - shouldn't he have been in the dressing room congratulating his team-mates on salvaging a draw ?

[brfcs5359]

Unfortunately, I doubt very much that we will see any more than one, maybe two new signings this January and neither will be of any real quality.

This is a criticism that should be levelled at Hughes rather than Ince IMO, for he has inherited a shaky defence and hasn't had the time nor the means to improve it. I have to say that I disagree with your view that our defence was a strong point under the last regime, because we didn't look capable of defending a set piece for the four seasons Hughes was in charge, we never had any pace at the back and I continue to witness the same individuals making mistakes over and over.

Funnily enough, Robinson, despite everybody's reservations, has actually been one of our best performers this season. He's cut out his mistakes in the air and is looking a quality replacement for Friedel.

You can look at the match from different perspectives. Rovers started sluggishly yesterday and then found themselves in a battle. And they did battle to a point. Though they were second to the ball most times and second best to an Albion obviously hurting from the previous week. And in the last 10 minutes when it was obvious Rovers were heading toward a defeat we went at them and played our best stuff.

Hughes left Ince a lot of problems. Ince lost 5 weeks in the summer (plus the opportunity to plan as the end of last season drew to a close) in the transfer market with his delayed appointment. January is judgement time in that respect.

Have to agree. Samba is a better footballer than Nelsen but Nelsen reads the game much better. Having Ooijar with the Admiral might take out of our defence what pace we do have but it's worth a try.

Hughes midfield last season was totally reliant on Bentley and Dunn. Other than that it was abysmal. In fact Dunn, Tugay, Pedersen, Reid & Emerton were all Souness players (and Flitty as well in the begginning). If in 4 years you can't find a better replacement then your ability Mr Hughes must be severely questioned. You've left Ince with an average squad going backwards.

I think under Hughes we would have been in real trouble. Under Ince we have the chance to get back to midtable. Andrews I like depsite yeterday's AWOL performance. Grella a reserve judgement. Lightweight, unathletic and avergae in possession he looks poor. Let's give him time though he would not get selected against Chelsea for me. Got to remember Garner was crap for two seasons between 77-79.

[alexanders]

Hughes midfield last season was totally reliant on Bentley and Dunn. Other than that it was abysmal. In fact Dunn, Tugay, Pedersen, Reid & Emerton were all Souness players (and Flitty as well in the begginning). If in 4 years you can't find a better replacement then your ability Mr Hughes must be severely questioned. You've left Ince with an average squad going backwards.

Everybody is talking about how Ince did not adress our midfield problems during the summer, neither did Hughes when he was the manager.

[Bobby G]

I watched the whole game live on TV and having slept on it, the feeling the next morning isnt all that better.

I thought we were not that good even before the red card, and it was an even game even then. Although, when we went down to ten men, I didnt think we coped with playing one man less as we had Roberts isolated up front with no one even close to him, and long punts going upwards being our only attacking strategy.

Defensively we give away too many soft goals and just before conceding the first, Nelsen almost scored a beautiful goal. At that point, it was obvious we were going to concede sooner or later, and we did duly. It took Ince until we went down 2-1 before he made a move to change things by bringing on MGP, who played much higher up than usually.

Personally, I thought we were lucky to escape with a point, as West Brom took their foot off the pedal after going up 2-1, although they werent all that great to warrant a victory at the same time. We have escaped with some points this season, which have given some people the false illussion that things seem to be moving in the right direction.

For me personally, I dont see things any differently than our first game. In fact, I thought against Everton in the first half we may have played some of the best football we played all season. Its all good making quick short passes, but defensively we are abysmal, and offensively we havent been missing sitters either, as if to say our luck will change and the chances will be put away soon.

We got 2 extra points against Everton in the last minute and 2 points against Boro and West Brom now in the same fashion. Now if we deducted these four points from our total, would everyone be as content as now?

Most worryingly, I sense a huge sense of apathy about the club. There are no prospects on the horizon, nothing to look much forward to, no excitement and I mean that for the fans, supporters, etc...We are being at best positioned as a mid-table side, something which I dont consider us to be nor have we been in the past few seasons.

[RevidgeBlue]

We got 2 extra points against Everton in the last minute and 2 points against Boro and West Brom now in the same fashion. Now if we deducted these four points from our total, would everyone be as content as now?

The game lasts until the final whistle. A goal scored in injury time is no less commendable than one scored earlier, indeed it tends to be indicative of a good attitude, not giving up.

If Villa hadn't scored in the minute added on at half time on Wednesday it might have been a very different result. I'm sure we'll concede one or two more before the end of the season as well. Unfortunately we won't be able to chalk them off, they all count!

[Bobby G]

The game lasts until the final whistle. A goal scored in injury time is no less commendable than one scored earlier, indeed it tends to be indicative of a good attitude, not giving up.

If Villa hadn't scored in the minute added on at half time on Wednesday it might have been a very different result. I'm sure we'll concede one or two more before the end of the season as well. Unfortunately we won't be able to chalk them off, they all count!

My point is those goals in the last minute "cloud" the overall picture of the games in question. And we cant keep coming back in the same fashion...

[tonyoz]

I watched the whole game live on TV and having slept on it, the feeling the next morning isnt all that better.

Most worryingly, I sense a huge sense of apathy about the club. There are no prospects on the horizon, nothing to look much forward to, no excitement and I mean that for the fans, supporters, etc...We are being at best positioned as a mid-table side, something which I dont consider us to be nor have we been in the past few seasons.

Sorry Bobby, I for one disagree with you. It seems that our performance yesterday was disappointing but we did fight back for a draw when down to 10 men.

I am looking forward to every game at the moment - which is more than I can say for last season. Unfortunately, I didn't get to see the game this time but like the saddo I am, I stayed up until 3am following the game on various live text sites.

It's a terrible way to follow the game I must admit - but there is worse:

If you want a thoroughly depressing experience, join the board's live chatroom during the match! I've never read so much negative and acidic comment. Everyone was disappointed, of course, but I would recommend that some of the posters find alternative entertainment on Saturday afternoon - it's not good for your health.

Why am I optimistic? Because I think we have a chance to move forward from where we were last season. Ince is trying to make a difference. It's not all rosy I know but there are encouraging signs in my opinion. I keep thinking "who could we have got as manager instead?" - or even "who would we get if Ince was sacked today?"

Some fans want BFS apparently but in the immortal words of Sam Goldwyn: "Include me out!"

What would you have expected, I wonder, if Laudrup had been our new manager? Champions League spot by now? - Man U and Arsenal thrashed?

It seems even Laudrup cannot bring immediate success at Spartak Moscow. Here is a quote from the Guardian:

Results are yet to meet expectations. On Thursday they beat Banik Ostrava 2-1 on aggregate to reach the group stage of the Uefa Cup, but only after a nervous final hour in which they feared conceding a second away goal that would have put them out. Any hopes of Champions League qualification for next season surely disappeared amid Sunday's shambolic 1-0 defeat to Krylia Sovetov in which Vladimir Bystrov and Mozart were sent off. "Laudrup wants us to play fast football, with just one or two touches," explained the midfielder Alexander Pavlenko. "He wants us to move the ball from one flank to the another."

That, evidently, will take time. Fans may be prepared reluctantly to write off this season, but next season they will expect concrete signs of progress. The ticking of failure's clock resounds ever louder.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2008/...uropeanfootball

Does that sound at all familiar? Even the style of football is reminiscent.

I still think that we have one of the brightest managerial prospects on our hands. If I am wrong - well I will be devastated...........but in the meantime I am going along for the ride.

[thenodrog]

You can look at the match from different perspectives. Rovers started sluggishly yesterday and then found themselves in a battle. And they did battle to a point. Though they were second to the ball most times and second best to an Albion obviously hurting from the previous week. And in the last 10 minutes when it was obvious Rovers were heading toward a defeat we went at them and played our best stuff.

Hughes left Ince a lot of problems. Ince lost 5 weeks in the summer (plus the opportunity to plan as the end of last season drew to a close) in the transfer market with his delayed appointment. January is judgement time in that respect.

Have to agree. Samba is a better footballer than Nelsen but Nelsen reads the game much better. Having Ooijar with the Admiral might take out of our defence what pace we do have but it's worth a try.

Hughes midfield last season was totally reliant on Bentley and Dunn. Other than that it was abysmal. In fact Dunn, Tugay, Pedersen, Reid & Emerton were all Souness players (and Flitty as well in the begginning). If in 4 years you can't find a better replacement then your ability Mr Hughes must be severely questioned. You've left Ince with an average squad going backwards.

I think under Hughes we would have been in real trouble. Under Ince we have the chance to get back to midtable. Andrews I like depsite yeterday's AWOL performance. Grella a reserve judgement. Lightweight, unathletic and avergae in possession he looks poor. Let's give him time though he would not get selected against Chelsea for me. Got to remember Garner was crap for two seasons between 77-79.

Is your second name Ince? What a load of pap!

1. How can the taking of 5 weeks to find a new manager be down to Hughes?

2. I think one of the reasons that Hughes left was because the board would not back his judgement in purchasing a good midfielder last January. Taking your alternative view he might well have been a bad manager cos he obviously overlooked the fact that the 4th Div is the place to find top 10 Premiership quality midfielders.

[den]

Watching football first [admittedly it's only 50 mins of highlights], I thought we looked so poor it was untrue. Like Trevor Francis said, Rovers had absolutely no idea how to play with 10 men. We left Roberts isolated up front and the rest of the team camped on the edge of their own area. I didn't see any contribution from the midfield. Where were Grella and Andrews?

I was surprised by how it came across on the TV. Radio Lancs were basically saying that we had played quite well, but it didn't show when I was watching.

Finding a team we can beat is becoming increasingly difficult.

[thenodrog]

The two big issues yesterday.

1. Despite Robert's wonderful expression he was fouled and it was a penalty. The fact that as Mowbray said "if they were given all the time games would finish 7-7" is irrelevent. They should all be given.

2. BM's sending off was valid and ino it is a waste of time him appealing. Sure he was pushed, sure such stupidity by the games rulers is counterproductive as it hurts the paying fans most, but how many times do we hear the phrase 'play to the whistle'? He didn't and imo has no defence.

[AggyBlue]

2. BM's sending off was valid and ino it is a waste of time him appealing. Sure he was pushed,

So how can it be valid if he was pushed before the handball?

He should have got the free kick, those that went saw the ref give us absolutely nothing after we got the pen.

I thought after he was pushed, he tried to twist his body and take the ball on his chest, it didn't come off and the ball hit his upper arm.

[ABBEY]

Fantastic - so after 5 games without a win against the likes of Boro, Bolton and WBA, and with Chelsea to come next week is not the time to panic - when exactly is? When we're 3 points from safety with a game to go?

we should be winning these games.Im sat looking at the table with squeaky buttocks.All those saying we got a good result and we lost last time ,i ask you this.would you be happy with a point at burnley if they come up like wba came up...i wouldnt.

[AggyBlue]

we should be winning these games.

Why?