[Archived] Cricket (tests, Odi's And 20/20)

[jim mk2]

ecb and strong leadership are not words that usually go together. selvey has a good blog on the guardian website about this.

I enjoy reading Selvey ; much better than Atherton's stuff in the Times.

Atherton was paid £600,000 (allegedly) to move from the S. Telegraph to the Times and one his first acts was to ignore a tip-off about the Sandford / Windies story and have his breakfast in his Antigua hotel instead giving the Daily Telegraph a front page exclusive all to themselves.

But that's what happens when you employ former cricketers as writers instead of proper journalists.

ECB need to sack Moores this week : he's a poor coach.

[Flopsy]

that last sentence needs 'international' before coach

[American Rover12]

Question: as this day draws to a close and S.A. is 1/50, what happens if they bat all day tomorrow, run out of time but don't reach their target even though all 10 batsmen aren't out?

[Redrose49er]

Question: as this day draws to a close and S.A. is 1/50, what happens if they bat all day tomorrow, run out of time but don't reach their target even though all 10 batsmen aren't out?

The match would end as a draw as neither side has won, think of a baseball game with a time limit instead if innings, until the 3rd out is achieved in the bottom of the 9th the game is not won or lost. To win in cricket, a team either has to exceed the other sides aggregate score or bowl them out in second innings. A draw is different from a tie, whereby the scores are level when the final wicket falls, a very, very rare occurance.

[American Rover12]

Ah, when draw is defined that way I get it. Wow I'd hate that, all that playing and it amounts to nothing. Thanks for the help and clarification!

[jim mk2]

. Wow I'd hate that, all that playing and it amounts to nothing. !

In a 5-day Test match you can sometimes tell after the first day that the match is going to end in a draw yet crowds still turn up to watch in huge numbers and the games are still entertaining. You also get one-sided matches that finish in 2-3 days that are deadly boring..... but that's cricket.

Off topic but I see you're from New Jersey : went to see the Jersey Boys at the theatre last week; great show.

[Flopsy]

jim is correct cricket can be incredibly dull at times but also incredibly exciting. In the 5 day game its all about mental strength, followed by skill. I've watched few boring tests as so much is happening at any one time. The 50 over shorter form of the game is less interesting because it is usually not a contest. Although england do seem to be involved in a large number of exciting games. Usually with up losing gloriously. 2020 is not hit and giggle, and rewards good brave cricket.

[American Rover12]

Yeah, I've seen it as well Jim, enjoyed it very much myself. The guys they got to play all the leads were dead on.

Back onto the topic, I can see how it can be boring but in addition to just starting to get into it I love watching the tactical and smaller battles that take place between the larger competition of the game. That and at any moment a great play can occur.

[American Rover12]

wow, incredible stuff at the finish of the match tonight.

[AussieinUk]

Bloody Hayden! Dropped a dolly of a catch - thank goodness it didn't matter in the end...

Btw - Did anyone see the new double-sided bat, David Warner used in the domestic 20/20 yesterday?

[dave birch]

What a great series. Had a session gone the other way on any day of any test and the results could have been turned around, or made even more convincing wins.

Credit to Smith, he's turned into a captain to be reckoned with, a good tactian, and has the troops to back it up. The only doubt in the side (for me and only based on this series) is Mckenzie. He didn't look the goods at all.

As for the Aussies, it might, just might tell the selectors that some of the "names" that their time is up. I'm thinking of Lee, Symonds, Hayden must now be considered unlikely to go to SA, Clark (S) will be under the microscope as to whether he is fit enough. Siddle, I reckon is going to turn into a gem, not sure about Doug, though he was unlucky in the first innings. We don't have a good spinner yet, Hauritz for me doesn't rate.

Great series, congrats to SA on the series win and bring on the reverse series in SA in Feb.

[accyrover]

Pietersen's just resigned as Englan Captain. Who's next for the hotseat I wonder ?

Accyrover

[dave birch]

I can't beleive he lost the "battle" with Moores? Big mistake.

[modes98]

I can't beleive he lost the "battle" with Moores?

They are saying on BBC that Moores has gone as well.

Bad decision to not back KP, I just hope he keeps playing for England. Seemed to have a brilliant captains head and was a player the whole team respected. Looking at the current England team there is no one that stands out to replace him.

[roverthemoon]

Pietersen's just resigned as Englan Captain. Who's next for the hotseat I wonder ?

Accyrover

Link

Strauss favorite to take over.

[jim mk2]

They are saying on BBC that Moores has gone as well.

Bad decision to not back KP, .

Their positions were untenable so they both had to go. Rare show of strength by the ECB.

England in turmoil again but nothing new about that.

[Ozz]

Moores was out of his depth at the top table of international cricket, and Pietersen is a walking time bomb, so no surprises here at all. As jim says, chaos reigns once more.

[tony gale's mic]

ECB did the right thing.

Pietersen had absolutely no right to issue an ultimatum like he did, especially after being captain for three whole tests. The players consistently refused to back him when interviewed about the situation and many reports suggest he didn't have the support of the dressing room on this issue. Moores wasn't a particularly good coach but he was right not to take Vaughan to the Windies and it's absolutely baffling why KP would want to make such a big deal of him not being picked. Also talking about this matter privately would've been much better for Pietersen than screaming to the red tops about it.

Great player but has shown himself up many times to be a petulant and arrogant man. Didn't display particularly great captaincy in his matches in charge and doubt he possessed the characteristics to be a successful captain.

And he'll still play for England, he's said that much, so no great loss really even if the affair has been an absolute shambles.

[dave birch]

And there was I, thinking that Cricket Australia were complete nongs appointing Neilsen as coach. I think that he has given 1 1/2 interviews since being appointed, but at least he can get along (or at least give the public appearance of getting along) with Ponting. If the ECB can get rid of their coach and captain in one day, can we appoint them to take charge of the Australian side for 24 hours, to clear out a couple of the obvious ones?

[AussieinUk]

The players consistently refused to back him when interviewed about the situation and many reports suggest he didn't have the support of the dressing room on this issue. ...it's absolutely baffling why KP would want to make such a big deal of him not being picked.

Great player but has shown himself up many times to be a petulant and arrogant man. Didn't display particularly great captaincy in his matches in charge and doubt he possessed the characteristics to be a successful captain.

Further to the above, I think you can add greedy to that list of 'qualities'..

"Pietersen was forced to relinquish his post when an ECB report conducted by the director of cricket, Hugh Morris, made it clear that several senior members of the England dressing-room - among them Andrew Flintoff and the new captain, Andrew Strauss - did not support his actions.

Aside from the unease about his attack on the coach, the players are believed to have found Pietersen tactically naïve in the field, particularly in the first Test at Chennai where India chased 387 for victory. Also, there are suggestions that he made too much personal capital out of England's return to India following the Mumbai attacks, probably with a view to earning a lucrative contract in the IPL."

Pieterson arrives back in the UK

What an absolute farce...

Moving on - the new world ranking are out after the SI v Bangladesh and Aus v SA series. The gap at the top has been reduced to just five rating points b/w SA and Aus . India, currently at No. 3, are now just eight points from the top spot. Sri Lanka also strengthened its hold on the fourth place with a 2-0 series win in Bangladesh. Sri Lanka are now within 10 of India and six ahead of England.

1. Aus

2. SA

3. Ind

4. SI

5. Eng

[Flopsy]

Flintoff doesnt support KP? What a surprise, Fred's getting the Highlander disease and not thinking whats best for the team.

However Moores has gone and thats the only silver lining from this godawful mess.

KP tried to keep this in house, it got leaked, not by KP, the ECB had dithered with Morris (Peter Moores' good friend and mentor) chief protagonist.

KP wanted it kept in house, someone leaked and low and behold we get this mess.

It's more to do with keeping the mouthy saffer in his place and not thinking about whats best for the team. If they believed he was actually wrong they wouldnt have had sacked Moores

[tony gale's mic]

Flintoff doesnt support KP? What a surprise, Fred's getting the Highlander disease and not thinking whats best for the team.

However Moores has gone and thats the only silver lining from this godawful mess.

KP tried to keep this in house, it got leaked, not by KP, the ECB had dithered with Morris (Peter Moores' good friend and mentor) chief protagonist.

KP wanted it kept in house, someone leaked and low and behold we get this mess.

It's more to do with keeping the mouthy saffer in his place and not thinking about whats best for the team. If they believed he was actually wrong they wouldnt have had sacked Moores

The ECB found that the team as a whole weren't behind KP on this issue, not just Flintoff.

No player has the right to issue an ultimatum like that to the board, especially when he's only been in charge for three Tests. What evidence do you have that KP tried to keep it in house? He is, as you describe, a "mouthy saffer" and it seems to me there's every chance he was involved in the press finding out about this.

Whether Moores was a good coach or not, he was right in not wanting to take Vaughan to the Caribbean and the fact that KP was so adamant that he wanted Vaughan to go was very odd.

All in all, KP didn't display particularly great captaincy during his three tests anyway, Strauss has captained both England and Middlesex to good effect before and it's probably for the best. I disagree with your final assertion - whatever they believed it's quite clear Moore's position became untenable, if only for the fact that KP still plans on being a key part of the England set up even after this.

[Eddie]

Quite right.

Moor

Quite right.

Moores was doing a bad job, Pietersen was doing a bad job. As it turns out he was obviously unpopular and was a bit too big for his boots (which everyone already knew). I think we had all hoped that being made captain would have sped up his maturing process and quietened him down a bit, but it simply hasn't happened. It's no a clean slate for English cricket which is a good thing, even if it comes from a mishandled set of events.

Strauss should have been made captain in the first place as he was the most qualified man for the job and most suited to it.

[Flopsy]

well your both wrong

Mike Selvey

KP's been shafted for doing the right thing. And Eddie, you're wrong about KP's personality, he's driven towards excellence and he and England werent going to get that with the current management setup. KP was doing a good job, he won 1 lost 1 and drew 1. Shall we have a look at Flintoff's record as captain? Or as a player since the ashes? It's really not pretty and sort of suggests that England are a better team without him. Something that I dont want to see, because I love the bloke on the field. Off it, I have some qualms. But you wont hear about his political manouvering because he's not confident, brash and has a south african accent.

Oh and your dislike of Pieterson has a history (not a good batsman I think you said during the last ashes) therefore you'll forgive me for not giving your opinion on this matter any more time

[tony gale's mic]

Well we can all post the viewpoints of others.

David Lloyd

Selvey's article is absolute claptrap and he shoots his own argument in the foot here:

If he is not universally liked then so what? Were that a criterion Geoffrey Boycott would never have got a game. Arrogant and egotistical? Matthew Hayden hasn't suffered too much. Dressing rooms consist of people often with little in common other than the game itself.

And yet they were never made permanent captains of their international sides. Don't know what that's meant to point out, after all KP is still a key, key player for England.

He makes precisely no mention of one of the key events in the saga in KP's insistence to take Vaughan to the West Indies. Neither does he mention the ultimatum that KP gave the ECB which was the ultimate cause for his removal and tried to defend that on any level.

Finally he fails to deal with the assertion that if you've lost so much of the dressing room so early on, which it was widely suggested he had, then it makes your position almost untenable. It's been reported widely that numerous members of the side were unhappy with his captaincy, particularly when defending at Chennai. Selvey talks about these "turncoats" but it's most likely not the backstabbing that Selvey claims it to be. It's possible to be unhappy with the coach, but also unhappy with the captain and additionally the way the captain has dealt with this matter.

Strauss has bags of captaincy experience, more than KP, did well when he captained vs Pakistan and for me will probably be a better bet.