[Archived] Fa Disciplinary Table- Bs Or The Hard Truth?

[RibbleValleyRover]

After the recent discussions in the premier league/other games thread I wanted to see where we were on the FA disciplinary table so far this season. I generally tend to ignore this table, but with a new manager and some new personnel I was wondering how we were doing.

Current Disciplinary Table 2008/2009 Season

1 Fulham 10 9 1 12

2 Hull City 11 15 0 15

3 Chelsea 11 13 1 16

4 Sunderland 11 17 0 17

5 Aston Villa 11 17 0 17

6 Middlesbrough 11 17 0 17

7 Liverpool 11 17 0 17

8 Manchester City 11 15 1 18

9 Newcastle 11 14 2 20

10 Everton 11 19 1 22

11 Arsenal 11 19 1 22

12 Portsmouth 11 16 2 22

13 Bolton 11 20 1 23

14 WBA 11 24 0 24

15 Wigan Athletic 11 18 2 24

16 Stoke City 11 22 1 25

17 Man Utd 10 22 1 25

18 Tottenham 11 20 2 26

19 West Ham Utd 11 21 2 27

20 Blackburn 11 25 1 28

(*Couldn't get the table aligned right. Basically it reads from left to right: Position, Team, Number of Games played, Yellow Cards, Red Cards, Points on the disciplinary table)

(Data taken from the Official Premier league website http://www.premierleague.com/page/Statisti...,12306,00.html)

Yep that’s right, bottom again!

Maybe i am so biased that i cannot see what the opposition or ref's see, but i honestly don't think we are a dirty team. When Hughes came in and we had to fight to stay up i admit we were a bit overphysical, but that was needed in order to survive.

Does anyone else feel we are still being tarred with the same brush after that season?

Is Wenger to blame for the treatment we have recieved from ref's for the past few seasons? iirc he was pretty vocal about us in the negative sense during that season. If a highly respected and regarded manager comes out with comments like that he is bound to hold some influence or make people think. If this is the case i can see why Tony Pulis is worried after Wenger came out with similar comments towards his team.

Another point that has to be taken into account is that we have ended up bottom of this in my view BS table for the past 4 seasons, receiving fines and suspended fines for the following season if we fail to climb up this so called table. With the FA ploughing money into this respect campaign do any of my fellow Rovers fans fear that if we end up bottom of this table again, five seasons in a row that the FA may feel its time to make an example of us? Perhaps look to point deductions, manager suspensions or other punishments?

[gumboots]

Yes I and many others think we are unfairly treated. One foul = one booking seems to be the rule for many of our players, whereas 6 fouls = one talking to and warning for most of our opponents. It happens so often that we are not the side committing most bad looking fouls and yet we come away with most bookings, even at home where you usually look to the ref to be a bit more sensible in his approach to you. I do blame Wenger and also Mourinho for their comments in the past that made refs look at us as ill-disciplined. As has been said elsewhere the refs come with a certain mindset to most games, not just ours and they tend to give what they expect to have to give and not what they actually see for a large part of the time. It's very annoying that teams with more red cards than us at this stage and reds given for serious foul play do not have more points than us as they don't have as many yellows. It's the stupid yellows, given for next to nothing that are costing us as they also mount up to bans for players during the season.

[modes98]

I think we are unfairly treated when it comes to yellow and red cards. The majority or ours this season have been for fouls/offenses that the other team has received a lesser punishment.

I think our fouls ratio is quite high game to game but that's largely down to the amount of 50/50 offenses that just go against us. Most refs try to even things out, but in the past few games we have won very few of those free kicks that could go either way.

[roversmum]

The West Brom game was a case in point. We got very little from the ref, they got 13 free kicks against us in the first half alone - possibly in retribution for the penalty and he was positively joyful at sending Benni off. Roberts' marker was all over him for most of the match as well.

I can't see us ever living those remarks down. It seems to me as if the refs take pleasure in carding us and awarding fouls against us. There is no way we are worse than most of the teams above us.

Also, look at Manchester City's position, with the same Manager that was portrayed as being the perpetrator of foul play at Rovers, it obviously hasn't followed him to City which begs the question - what isit all about?

[thenodrog]

It's all rubbish now of course.

But I really liked us being the hard bstards of 3 years ago. Psychological and physical intimidation of opponents is all part and parcel of the game and does provide an advantage of sorts. It can be done without being dirty too. Just ask Arsene Wenger and Tony Pulis!

On the plus side maybe time spent wriggling on the ground and trying to get opponents booked should represent a minus column on that chart. It would certainly work in our favour.

[den]

It's all rubbish now of course.

But I really liked us being the hard bstards of 3 years ago. Psychological and physical intimidation of opponents is all part and parcel of the game and does provide an advantage of sorts.

It's also the best way of lifting the crowd, thus lifting the players, thus lifting the performance.

[DeadlyDirk]

Yes I think we are still viewed as a dirty team but unfairly. Yes we are still fairly physical but not dirty I don't think. I think as others have said, instead of a free kick and a warning they seem to go straight for the yellow.

We are definitely not the dirtiest team in the premiership as the league table suggests.

[Majiball]

Found this quite interesting given the topic of debate:

Fouls per yellow card

Its not the original one which I read a couple of days ago which had this years stat's, one team was up on 15 fouls per yellow. But its interesting to note we are right at the top, we also top the concedes fouls league as well.

[den]

Ronaldo intentional handball against Arsenal today - free kick awarded. Yellow card given? - NO.

There's part of your answer.

[Amo]

The FA are only allowed to ###### Fergie off once every four seasons.

[bazza]

I would love to see the Rovers play with the same discipline as Brian Clough's Nottingham Forest.

I agree with gumboots. It's the yellow cards that are causing the problem. Players should accept the referee's decision, which is final, even if he has made a gigantic mistake. Never, ever argue, and play the game in the true spirit.

Refs would come to realise that it is a pleasure to control a game where Blackburn Rovers are involved.

I've said this before. It's up to the manager to instill this discipline. If Cloughie could do it, why not Incie?

I live in hope!

[Tom]

Ronaldo intentional handball against Arsenal today - free kick awarded. Yellow card given? - NO.

There's part of your answer.

True, you'll never see a more obvious yellow but its all too predictable

Expect 5 or 6 yellows tomorrow

[thenodrog]

If Cloughie could do it, why not Incie?

Difference is that Brian Clough was a football manager.

[Neil Weaver]

I would love to see the Rovers play with the same discipline as Brian Clough's Nottingham Forest.

I agree with gumboots. It's the yellow cards that are causing the problem. Players should accept the referee's decision, which is final, even if he has made a gigantic mistake. Never, ever argue, and play the game in the true spirit.

Refs would come to realise that it is a pleasure to control a game where Blackburn Rovers are involved.

I've said this before. It's up to the manager to instill this discipline. If Cloughie could do it, why not Incie?

I live in hope!

Agree entirely with the sentiment bazza but this sort of thing will encourage a bit more hassling of refs....... from Football365's report of today's Histon v Swindon FA Cup game

Rushton (the ref) initially awarded the home side a goal when Wright headed in another Gwillim throw but after a long consultation with his colleagues the goal was chalked off for pushing

The radio thought the reason for chalking it off was that the throw hadn't touched anyone on it's way in but they were just about to kick off again when the 4th official had a lengthy chat with the ref who then changed his mind!

[Hughesy]

True, you'll never see a more obvious yellow but its all too predictable

Expect 5 or 6 yellows tomorrow

With the rain also likely all day, maybe a sending off too. Could be a scrappy game. Bookings - Samba, Warnock, Grella, Roberts & Nelsen.

Personally I think we are unfairly treated thanks to our past reputation. I do however like it when we get in the big teams faces and they dont like it, I do however hate the diving around and faking of injuries that gets our players worse disciplining than necessary. The FA should really add a rule for retrospective punishment based on diving like the FA took action on the handball the other week.

[Hughesy]

3 Red cards for City so far

3 Red cards for Tottenham

Dont think we are the dirtiest side somehow.

Who was the ref at the Chelsea game? He was a 1st class clown.

[Exiled_Rover]

Foy?

Nice of Warnock to talk himself into a booking and therefore a suspension. Idiot.

[gumboots]

3 Red cards for City so far

3 Red cards for Tottenham

Dont think we are the dirtiest side somehow.

Who was the ref at the Chelsea game? He was a 1st class clown.

I couldn't quite understand the antipathy of many of the crowd towards the ref yesterday. He didn't send robinson off and quite clearly could have done. He gave corners when they should have been goal kicks and vice versa but seemed to be fairly even handed in his awfulness. We could have had a penalty too. He was poor yes but I think if we're honest that we benefited as much as we suffered.

[den]

I couldn't quite understand the antipathy of many of the crowd towards the ref yesterday. He didn't send robinson off and quite clearly could have done. He gave corners when they should have been goal kicks and vice versa but seemed to be fairly even handed in his awfulness. We could have had a penalty too. He was poor yes but I think if we're honest that we benefited as much as we suffered.

Anyone remember Chelsea's free kick by the riverside in the first half. The ref told the Chelsea player to take the ball back a few yards, the player didn't do as asked, but the ref just seemed to say to him "oh, OK then, carry on, take it from where you want" and allowed play to continue much to the rovers players surprise. How biased was that?

[Presty On Tour]

Anyone remember Chelsea's free kick by the riverside in the first half. The ref told the Chelsea player to take the ball back a few yards, the player didn't do as asked, but the ref just seemed to say to him "oh, OK then, carry on, take it from where you want" and allowed play to continue much to the rovers players surprise. How biased was that?

It was Boswinga with his gloves and sergical gloves on top of them to stop the wooly gloves getting wet, the big girl!

When Foy asked him to take it further back i think he moved it all of a few inches and the ref was still telling him to take it further back, like 10 yards further but instead Boswinga took it short and the ref thought oh well and waved play on.

Still you could look at it as time wasting, so it did go in our favor slightly.

[gumboots]

Anyone remember Chelsea's free kick by the riverside in the first half. The ref told the Chelsea player to take the ball back a few yards, the player didn't do as asked, but the ref just seemed to say to him "oh, OK then, carry on, take it from where you want" and allowed play to continue much to the rovers players surprise. How biased was that?

Yes that one was poor but as I said both sides could have had pens we didn't get. robinson could have been sent off so why was the feeling that he was only bad for us?

[den]

Yes that one was poor but as I said both sides could have had pens we didn't get. robinson could have been sent off so why was the feeling that he was only bad for us?

I didn't think he was only bad for us GB, - except maybe the booking Warnock picked up was a little harsh considering how Chelsea were up to their usual tactics of surrounding the referee whenever he awarded anything against them. He didn't react to them like he did Warnock, did he? [that's not defending Warnock in the least].

[gumboots]

I didn't think he was only bad for us GB, - except maybe the booking Warnock picked up was a little harsh considering how Chelsea were up to their usual tactics of surrounding the referee whenever he awarded anything against them. He didn't react to them like he did Warnock, did he? [that's not defending Warnock in the least].

I just had the feeling, sitting in the stand that many fans thought he was having a shocker for us and I couldn't understand it, that's all. I didn't think he was that bad - he seemed to make reasonable allowances for the weather and conditions most of the time and that's why I was asking.

[Tris]

I thought Foy was shocking yesterday. I only saw ONE 50-50 shout go our way in the entire game. Some of the mistakes he made on throw ins and corners / goal kicks were ridiculous. I am normally one who sides with referees and cut them some slack because they do their best, but yesterday I totally lost it with Foy because if that was his best it was mickey mouse (to quote Kinnear).

[Hughesy]

I think it was how he reacted different with us. If Chelsea went down and asked for a foul, they got it, we didnt.

If they complained and surrounded the ref they got away with it, Warnock on his own didnt!

Then there is the free-kick the ref just gave up on - if it had been us then we would of got booked.

Then there was the free-kick that they got, that started the move for the goal when the foul should of gone our way on mokoena.

As for Robinson, it wasnt a foul, he didnt touch him, Anelka hardly appealed either, so why a red?

Who can I contact at the FA about the ref's performance?

The problem with 'small' clubs like ours is that enough noise isnt made to make any difference.