[Archived] Paul Ince

[Ray-Von]

Just waiting for someone to suggest El Tel.......-maybe to hold Ince's hand for a while?

I think Paul suggested something along those lines a little earlier which doesn't seem to be a bad shout at all in my opinion. An old head such as George Graham would fit the bill nicely.

However, I think Ince would be too proud to admit he needs help at this level.

[RevidgeBlue]

Don't know Rev. I'm not privy to any applicants or shortlists.

Nicely fielded Sir.

So just to clarify, without knowing the possible alternatives, do you want Ince replaced or not?

[CAPT KAYOS]

Continuity is the key, it's too early to sack Ince now.

Certainly is Torgeir - the worrying factor is this seems to be lost on the manager and his team though.

Didn't see the game Saturday which is probably better I didn't by all accounts, but alot of similar comments are appearing that arose whilst Hughes was still in tenure yet I think the dabbling by Ince is compounding them.

However ( and this is my opinion only and I have not been anti Ince even though I don't like the guy), now is not the time to sack him and I still feel he has to be given the time until at least after the Liverpool game as bad as that may seem to some - justification for this (if that is the right word) is back to the continuity factor but only on the basis of there not being anybody available or we are aware of that we would consider suitable, and that he shows improvement in this next batch of games.

I never understand the aspect of playing players out of position unless it is the only viable option especially when you have players available that can play that position - not only does this upset the balance of the team , but detracts from the actual player moved not being able to perform to same level as they would in their own position and also aggaravates the player not actually playing.

This to me as I have said before has primarily been our downfall and Ince's also - he should have been gauging what his players can do before trying to swap everything around.

What we have at the moment that others have picked up upon also :

1. No clear leadership on the pitch - nor off it

2. Players confused about what their role is on the pitch most of the time

3. No working units basically because of #2 - its supposed to be a team game

4. A defence that is so flat with no awareness of fellow players - see previous points (get rid of

the 'imaginery'defensive coach it obviously does not work from London)

5. Danger signs - - Lack of awareness and ability to read and react to them, no determination to win the

50/50's

6. As mentioned -players played out of position when there is no need - and definitely not when a team is

struggling - we are basically starting evey match with 10 or less men by doing so

7. Heads are dropping and so are perfomances because of all the above.

The way forward IMO is just to get back to basics :-

1. Players back in their positions - forget injuries we have had cover , just PI chose to muddle up the team

2. As above , forget playing any offside traps or fruitless fancy dan ideas at the back - just defend as if their

lives depended on it ( SACK THE DEFENSIVE COACH)

3. Get your units working again - develop the partnerships and the players doing what they should be doing -

keep it simple - as I have said before - defenders defend / midfielders midfield /attackers attack.

4. Forgte Pro zone for the time being - use self judgement.

We have good enough players in the squad to get this ball rolling again, maybe not to the heights we have seen over the last few seasons but enough to show a grounding to develop upon. Get the continuity back and the consistency may see its self reform.

If PI continues the way he is , then he only has himself to blame - there is enough left in the season for us to try and escape if all is lost, however the oche is there and its his last chance saloon lets see if he can throw the arrows and grab the bullseye.

I have said it before - Football is a simple game - why try and confuse it.

Apologies on the rant , as mentioned I have been away from the game most of this season (probably for the better) but feel there is too much bitching and kneejerk right or wrong and that is not helping the club. I know its about performance on the pitch and not naive to the factor of each has its own to play, but maybe a full out vociferous backing in a game may give way to some serious feedback performance from the players.

I think Paul suggested something along those lines a little earlier which doesn't seem to be a bad shout at all in my opinion.

Not in my book - if he needs somebody to do this - then he is not good enough for the job ( which some people already think anyway)

[tcj_jones]

I thought Allardyce "ruled himself out"? Obviously that was in response to being ruled out by the club, but if I remember correctly he came out and made a face saving type statement, which I would guess would be his justification for giving us a "second chance".

I'd e very surprised if he turned us down, he's been quoted as saying he expects to be back in management sooner rather than later once chairman start getting nervous come Christmas time.

I suppose it's a difficult one to call, but the club certainly shouldn't take it for granted that he'll come running back and neitehr should the fans. You're definitely right that he only ruled himself out in response to clearly being overlooked and wanting to save face. Publically, that would mean that he could fill the managerial position and keep his rep in tact, but I'm just not sure he's the kinda guy to swallow his pride and apply for the position a second time around.

Curbishley managed to keep an average side in the Premier League for a long, long time on a shoestring budget. If he can do it there, he can do it here.

Not in my book - if he needs somebody to do this - then he is not good enough for the job ( which some people already think anyway)

Exactly. Why appoint a man at Premier League level, if he doesn't know enough to do the job?

[den]

Nicely fielded Sir.

So just to clarify, without knowing the possible alternatives, do you want Ince replaced or not?

Rev. - JW and the board are in the best position to judge whether Ince can, or will, turn this slump around. They have had enough time to know whether they can trust him to spend any available money in January. If they see no signs that things will improve, and improve quickly, they must sack him, irrespective of whether we, or they, know who will replace him. IMO, they have no longer than 4 weeks to decide. If they already believe he can't improve things - they should do it today.

As for me, well you know I didn't think Ince was the right man for the job before he was appointed. Have I seen anything that suggests that he can improve matters? No, and I challenge anyone to show me evidence that he can. Having said that, things change quickly in football and it only takes a couple of good, well disciplined, deserved wins to alter the atmosphere. He doesn't have much time though IMO.

[Wiggy]

Can't imagine Allardyce being in contention any more GB. After him pulling out because of the realisation that so many fans didn't want him, he will realise that if he didn't get off to a good start he would quickly lose those same fans.

Why would he put himself in that position?

About £ 2,000,000?

[den]

About £ 2,000,000?

possibly. He might think it better to take someone else's two million though! I wouldn't be against big Sam Wiggy.

[Ray-Von]

Not in my book - if he needs somebody to do this - then he is not good enough for the job ( which some people already think anyway)

Fair point, but the general opinion seems that Ince may come good in the fullness of time and it may be an alternative to entering the managerial merry-go-round like Spurs, City and Newcastle. Having Paisley around Dalglish at Liverpool did no harm whatsoever.

The only realistic alternative at this stage seems to be BFS and I don't think that will happen after the last interview process.

[MCMC1875]

A meesage to the board.

Messrs Stanners, Lee, et al, are you listening? Don't hide behind Mr Williams, You were there in the days of the late, great Bill Fox and he used to consult the kingmaker about managerial appointments, Jimmy Armfield. Kendall, Saxton and Mackay all did well. Who was consulted this time?

Mr Ince says Robinson is the best in the business - seriously? Vince O'Keefe was better than Robinson! and better still were Anold, Gennoe, Flowers and Friedal!

Look at the achievements of Messrs Grayson and Parkes.

How we could do with the commitment now of Arnold, Branagan, Rathbone, Kendall, Keeley, Fazackerley, Brotherston, Crawford, Garner, McKenzie and Parkes.

[joey_big_nose]

ALAN CURBISHLY. Gotta be worth considering, at the very least.

I like Curbishley as a person, but I am not sure he is what we need right now. Underwhelming at West Ham when he actually had a decent set of players who should of been perfoming much better. Did extremely well at Charlton but he practically built the squad from scratch which is a completely different situation. I am not sure he would be able to turn thing around at Rovers quickly. He does not seem to have that sort of immediate impact.

If we can't get BFS then I would be hope we will take a little time to find the right person. I am not convinced by any of the candidates. If I had to go for anyone apart from BFS then it would be Coppell but he fills me with reservations too.

[RevidgeBlue]

A meesage to the board.

Messrs Stanners, Lee, et al, are you listening? Don't hide behind Mr Williams, You were there in the days of the late, great Bill Fox and he used to consult the kingmaker about managerial appointments, Jimmy Armfield. Kendall, Saxton and Mackay all did well. Who was consulted this time?

Mr Ince says Robinson is the best in the business - seriously? Vince O'Keefe was better than Robinson! and better still were Anold, Gennoe, Flowers and Friedal!

Look at the achievements of Messrs Grayson and Parkes.

How we could do with the commitment now of Arnold, Branagan, Rathbone, Kendall, Keeley, Fazackerley, Brotherston, Crawford, Garner, McKenzie and Parkes.

Give over 1875, O'Keefe better than Robinson?

Also I stand to be corrected, but I don't think any of the "old guard" are on the Board any more.

The current Board consists of Williams, Finn, Martin Goodman (Finance Director) and David Brown (Link to Trustees) to the best of my knowledge.

[philipl]

plus Rob Coar and Richard Matthewman.

David Brown is the Deputy Chairman and former Chairman of Flybe if my memory serves me correctly.

[RevidgeBlue]

plus Rob Coar and Richard Matthewman.

David Brown is the Deputy Chairman and former Chairman of Flybe if my memory serves me correctly.

Oh ok, I thought I read at the time that a new stream-lined "Executive" four man Board had been set up when JW was made Chairman.

[philipl]

It was streamlined down to six.

Bob Coar continued by dint of his former Chairmanship and his positions on the FA and Premier League although he has lost his FA Executive Board place (or whatever they call the 12 man supreme body) following the slimming down there.

Richard Matthewman is there as family- he is Jack's son-in-law.

[speeeeeeedie]

Can we not merge this thread with the progress thread? There's posts all over the place and it would make sense as we're talking about the same thing.

I've read some decent scribings from Tris, Andy C, Paul, and Capt. Kayos on the situation. I do agree that Ince needs to be put on notice (funny as we are 2 wins off 11th) but certainly not fired, I also think he will get back to basics to stop the rot. Our problems have not changed all season;

Lots of fancy possession close to the centre circle with 1 man isolated up front (who has been Roberts and his brick wall touch lately). This lack of forward impetus then gets compounded by daft mistakes at the back gifting the other team goals making it even harder to get a result.

Injuries. Dunn looked fantastic at the start of the season. I think Grella is decent but he can't get fit. Then we have Emerton a stalwart for years now out, McCarthy has been stop start, and our talisman RSC is just now coming back.

Weird positions. I understood playing Ooijer at left back against Bolton to stop Davies, but that is where it should have ended. Warnock should have been back there 3 weeks ago.

I honestly believe that Rovers have been going downhill for 12 months. We started last season flying then after about 10/15 games we became erratic. I remember plenty complaining that the football was dire to watch, and it was no surprise when Hughes got on the 1st boat out once the season finished. Ince inherited this situation then lost our creative outlet without signing a replacement and has been tinkering to see what works since. Unfortunately too much messing about looks likes it's having an adverse affect on the playing staff. I want Ince to succeed, I do not want us to go down but all we can do is watch and hope that he gets it right. Roll on Sunday.

[CrazyIvan]

I don't want some kind of idiot savant running team affairs at my club.

That kind of comment is bound to get people wound up and rightly so. It is by far the stupidest comment I've read on here today.

[Frisky Jim]

Stanners and Lee were hoofed off the board years ago. If there are no defined jobs for board members, unless they are contributing wads of cash - which presumably they weren't - then quite right too, let them go and serve on the committee at the local WMC or Con Club should they feel the need to swan around somewhere looking important in expensive overcoats

If Ince needs an older adviser like a Venables or whoever, he is a lame duck in the job already and his position untenable.

He clearly hasn't got any of the qualities you need to succeed at top level. A League Two manager told me that of the managers in that Division last year, any one of about 16 would have got Milton Keynes promoted with the money he had to spend. john Coleman, Keith Hill...if Stanley had suddenly had a windfall and bought the title, people would have been horrified if we'd picked up their manager and rightly so!

Because Ince was a hugely successful player, he is therefore credited with being able to "know what it's all about and what it takes at top-flight level."

Well, I'm sorry, but from results and evidence before our very eyes he clearly doesn't. The coaching badge issue and the reasons for his lack thereof are very sad but I'm sorry, I don't want some kind of idiot savant running team affairs at my club.

Very good post.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

The same inexperience line can easily be used for Hughes for when he was hired as well as Ince. Both were gambles. I dont think its particularly relevent to be honest as quite frankly that decision was made 4 months ago.

[leftfooter]

David Brown is the Deputy Chairman and former Chairman of Flybe if my memory serves me correctly.

Apart from Coar; are any of the others real football men?

[mattyboy6000]

Bob Coars a football man?

he's been involved for a long time and has the interests of the club at heart, but I wouldn't consider him a football man

[vintageadidas]

Isnt David Brown - CEO of Graham & Brown Wallcoverings?

[gazsimm]

never mind getting sack of Ince, we need to get rid of that clown Williams.

[Damage]

He clearly hasn't got any of the qualities you need to succeed at top level. A League Two manager told me that of the managers in that Division last year, any one of about 16 would have got Milton Keynes promoted with the money he had to spend. john Coleman, Keith Hill...if Stanley had suddenly had a windfall and bought the title, people would have been horrified if we'd picked up their manager and rightly so!

Because Ince was a hugely successful player, he is therefore credited with being able to "know what it's all about and what it takes at top-flight level."

Well, I'm sorry, but from results and evidence before our very eyes he clearly doesn't.

Exactly! And JW et al should have had the bloody sense to realise that! They got lucky with the Hughes appointment (little management experience) but surely they have heard the old adage "lightning doesn't strike twice!". The last appointment should have been about stability, not another experiment! We may have no choice with the next manager but to experiment again. Clowns! Egos grown beyond achievement and ability are in need of a few sharp implements.

[Claytons Left Boot]

Apart from Coar; are any of the others real football men?

Even Coar (Burnley Bob) is a Claret!

[Ricky]

I like Curbishley as a person, but I am not sure he is what we need right now..........I am not sure he would be able to turn thing around at Rovers quickly. He does not seem to have that sort of immediate impact.

Would this be the same Curbishley who rescued West Ham after they looked dead and buried and were clear odds on favourites to go down????