[Archived] Paul Ince

[gillibrand]

Anyone see the incredibly biased article in the Mirror Sport? Not Oliver Holt, I'm afraid, but someone saying the pressure on Ince is uncalled for considering:

* His recent unbalanced fixture list consisting of Arsenal, Man. Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, and Villa.

* Injuries to key players.

* And only having £2m to spend when he took the job.

What a load of ######. I think unless you're a fan of the club, you don't really understand what's going on here and what the consequences will be if we play the waiting game. After all, what skin off the journo's nose is it if you're proven wrong and Rovers are relegated under Ince?

I think there are a few so called fans who don't really understand what's going on !

[BuckyRover]

When you do that to accomodate a player as good as Carlos Cuellar, it makes sense. If you do it to accomodate Martin Olsson, it doesnt.

I thought it was common knowledge (i.e. on here) that Ooijer cannot play at right back, and that we have no right midfielder. Taking these things into account, who would you have played at right back against Man Utd?

(Was Warnock at fault for any of the goals??)

he is obviously not "over performing"

its up to the manager to get the best out of his staff

If Ronaldo doesn't win Ballon d'Or every year, does that mean he is "under performing"?

Or can you interpret that as a player might have one great season which he fails to better after that, but is not necessarily "under performing"??

[modes98]

Ince deserves to have the next 5 games.

If we dont get enough wins from the next 5 then i agree he has to go.

We've lost our last 5 games. If we lose the 5 he wants us to give him we will be down and you may as well leave him in charge. The next 5 games are ones we have to win to stay up.

Our last point was November 1st.

Our last 3 points was 27th September.

Not really good enough from the players or the management, but the manager gets paid to get us points.

[robborover]

We've lost our last 5 games. If we lose the 5 he wants us to give him we will be down and you may as well leave him in charge. The next 5 games are ones we have to win to stay up.

Our last point was November 1st.

Our last 3 points was 27th September.

Not really good enough from the players or the management, but the manager gets paid to get us points.

Alternatively, a different manager may lose the 5 games as well! It's stick or twist for the board. They appointed Ince and his team and have the decision. They could also back Ince and extend his budget and we might stay up?

[T4E]

I thought it was common knowledge (i.e. on here) that Ooijer cannot play at right back, and that we have no right midfielder. Taking these things into account, who would you have played at right back against Man Utd?

Ooijer. However, thats because I don't work on the theory of "why play one player out of position when you can play two" like Mr Ince does.

[yoda]

I thought it was common knowledge (i.e. on here) that Ooijer cannot play at right back, and that we have no right midfielder. Taking these things into account, who would you have played at right back against Man Utd?

(Was Warnock at fault for any of the goals??)

If Ronaldo doesn't win Ballon d'Or every year, does that mean he is "under performing"?

Or can you interpret that as a player might have one great season which he fails to better after that, but is not necessarily "under performing"??

I never mentioned under performing, just that a professional footballer can't over perform, once you have raised the bar, you have raised the pressure, you either live with it or you go down, sometimes a little sometimes a lot.

[den]

What I think doesn't matter (and I've already said I will always back the manager who's sitting in the seat - if Ince is sat there v Wigan or if Souness or Allardyce is sat there doesn't matter - any and each of the three needs supporting).

All I'm saying is that it appears, from his LET comment, that JW was braced for a clear steer from the crowd on Saturday. It appears (according to Nicko) that work had already been done to prepare for a change.

The clear steer from the crowd didn't come (LeC and T4E - not even after the final whistle) even though reading this MB would have led anyone to believe that it would be crystal clear. Even you yourself Den said that Rovers fans know how to get rid of a manager, and have done so before. Well - we've obviously forgotten.

Even if just half of the home crowd had wanted to get the manager sacked - enough noise could have been made to bring that about. The two supposed candidates aren't doing anything else - the bullet could have been fired any time in the last 48 hours and the new man in Brockhall this morning preparing for Wigan.

No, there was no demonstration. So what?

What you're doing Tris, is saying that posts/polls on m/b's, posts in the LT or anywhere else are completely meaningless, but the lack of a demonstration at a game [after you have urged everyone to show support] is evidence that there is NO discontent. Hmmmmm.....

[islander200]

No, there was no demonstration. So what?

it shows that there is fans out there that are backing the manager.Can i ask you one question if we get a new manager and he loses his first 4 games in a row will you be calling for his head?

[modes98]

Alternatively, a different manager may lose the 5 games as well! It's stick or twist for the board. They appointed Ince and his team and have the decision. They could also back Ince and extend his budget and we might stay up?

Indeed they could and that's why the board get paid alot of money to make decisions.

However given Ince's summer transfer window I would much rather see whatever pennies we can get together go to a manager with more Premiership experience and greater pull in the market.

I have said before that I think Ince will be a good manager in the future, but I feel it is a step to far to soon and we are not lucky enough to be in a position where we can give him anymore time to sort it out.

[Dan Furness]

Our season is realistically reduced to 34 games, in the 2nd half of the season we play the 'big 4' away and I am happy now to say we will not pick up a single point from these.

Actions sooner rather than later are required, as said if we do not win Wigan etc then we are in big shhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiii

[den]

it shows that there is fans out there that are backing the manager.

Can i ask you one question if we get a new manager and he loses his first 4 games in a row will you be calling for his head?

No, it shows there wasn't a demonstration. You're taking the very stance that Tris is.

Can i ask you one question if we get a new manager and he loses his first 4 games in a row will you be calling for his head?

If Ince had done that, then won four on the trot I wouldn't want him replaced.

[Exiled in Toronto]

No, there was no demonstration. So what?

If the poll on here was representative and 80% of the 19,000 Rovers fans there wanted Ince out as vehemently as the serial posters on this thread, would you not have expected a demo after the game? Kicking the windows of the boardroom in like the good old days? Or at least a token shout? One banner maybe?

The poll isn't representative because it is self-selecting rather than being a random sample, in the same way that Militant Tendency wasn't representative of the Labour rank and file - they just turned up and voted at meetings while the rest stayed at home.

Equally, all these 'no smoke without fire' rumours we've been hearing from Nicko, Philip etc could equally well be a reflection that in the internet age the same story appears simultaneously from umpteen different directions, e.g. Barack Obama being a muslim. Indeed Nicko publicly thanked some anonymous members for feeding him gossip!

[islander200]

No, it shows there wasn't a demonstration. You're taking the very stance that Tris is.

can you not accept that there are people out ther that support ince,you never answered my question if we get a new manager and he loses a few games will u call for his head?

[Amo]

they are all valid points,sunderland spent 30 million this summer are two points ahea of blackburn andif keane did not walk away he would not have been sacked yet

Keane bought himself time having already guided Sunderland to success.

Ince spent much more than Hughes has in recent years. £3.5m for Robinson, £4m for Grella, £1m for Villanueva loan, £1.3m for Keith Andrews. That's not a lot by today's standards, but he's had more than £2m to spend, that's for sure. He just doesn't know how to invest properly, like Hughes did, meaning he's gambled away what little transfer funds we had.

[chris]

I have to admit when Harford and Hodgson was incharge i wanted to lose the last games so they would go

I still want Ince to do well, I just don't think he up to it

[my_name_is_Earl]

It's irrelevant whether the fans were backing ince or the team.

The fact is many on here were gleefully predicting scenes of carnage, chants and demonstrations against Ince and the Board.

Which simply didn't happen.

In fact in adversity the atmosphere at Ewood was better than for a very long time. I hope it's the same story against Wigan whoever is in charge. Surely another defeat would spell the end for Ince regardless of the fans' reaction.

Sorry Rev but can you give me one good reason why Ince shouldn't go apart from he needs time? What is the best excuse for any bad situation that one may find themselves in? I DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME. It's such a ridiculous excuse. In fairness, If Ince looked as though he had the ability to get us out of this position than I would have been more fair-minded. But regardless of what you or all the other Pro-Ince campaigners think, the fact is we are nineteenth (twentieth at some point yesterday) and we have not looked good at all throughout the season for so many reasons. You tell me what more I have to do to convince you that Ince is not cut out for this job?

Also, I initially backed Ince's appointment, in fact all the way through until the Sunderland game even though we were very poor before that so I do try and keep a middle of the road view.

[philipl]

I think it is highly dangerous and irresponsible if the message from the board is that they want to see a massive physical demonstration by the fans before taking action on the Manager.

I have heard that the weight of e-mails and letters to the Chairman are in favour of a change in Manager and that the numbers received were over 1,000 after the Man U game- don't know if that is accurate or not.

With regards to the polls on here, unless you have good reason to believe that the people of brfcs are so statistically skewed that they are in no way a representative sample of the Rovers home gate then two polls of over 450 out of a population of roughly 25,000 are statistically significant particularly when the margins have been so big (60-40 and now 75-20).

At some point, surely, there needs to be a football judgement and a business judgement exercised by the board.

I cannot see any rational or sane basis for not making the change in the management team.

[islander200]

Keane bought himself time having already guided Sunderland to success.

Ince spent much more than Hughes has in recent years. £3.5m for Robinson, £4m for Grella, £1m for Villanueva loan, £1.3m for Keith Andrews. That's not a lot by today's standards, but he's had more than £2m to spend, that's for sure. He just doesn't know how to invest properly, like Hughes did, meaning he's gambled away what little transfer funds we had.

Robinson is a decent keeper,cant judge grella because he has been injured(i suppose ince is to blame)i remember the excitement on here when villanueva signed,and andrews is not bad at least he can string a pass together unlike some of our other players

[den]

If the poll on here was representative and 80% of the 19,000 Rovers fans there wanted Ince out as vehemently as the serial posters on this thread, would you not have expected a demo after the game? Kicking the windows of the boardroom in like the good old days? Or at least a token shout? One banner maybe?

Did I expect a demo? No. What makes you think I did, I can't read into the future.

But hey, just use that lack of a demo as a reason to verify that the majority of fans are happy with Ince and want to see him here until the end of the season.

[my_name_is_Earl]

Not necessarily.

Fans can be "too close" and make irrational decisions.

For example, Martin O'Neill played Luke Young (a right back) at left back yesterday, when Ince did the same (Warnock) he was derided. There is nothing crazy about playing a left back at right back, except on here that was another nail in Ince's coffin.

Also we fail to consider that people who are angry and want a change of manager, are more likely to vote in polls and more likely to log on to the Internet to voice their opinion. People who are ambivalent are not likely to go around voting in polls.

That is why this or any messageboard is not a valid measure of support.

Rubbish Bucky. How much more generalising can you get? MON could afford to play Luke Young there because he is not under the same pressure. He is not nineteenth in the table. Where did you get your stats from anyway? They really do fail to corroborate a decent angle on this matter because they are simply way too GENERAL!

[JAL]

What I think doesn't matter (and I've already said I will always back the manager who's sitting in the seat - if Ince is sat there v Wigan or if Souness or Allardyce is sat there doesn't matter - any and each of the three needs supporting).

All I'm saying is that it appears, from his LET comment, that JW was braced for a clear steer from the crowd on Saturday. It appears (according to Nicko) that work had already been done to prepare for a change.

The clear steer from the crowd didn't come (LeC and T4E - not even after the final whistle) even though reading this MB would have led anyone to believe that it would be crystal clear. Even you yourself Den said that Rovers fans know how to get rid of a manager, and have done so before. Well - we've obviously forgotten.

Even if just half of the home crowd had wanted to get the manager sacked - enough noise could have been made to bring that about. The two supposed candidates aren't doing anything else - the bullet could have been fired any time in the last 48 hours and the new man in Brockhall this morning preparing for Wigan.

For the board to have to wait for the crowd to turn before they take full responsibility themselves is simply embarrassing especially after FIVE months of continual mistakes added to a recruitment record suitable for the lower leagues. We've no chance if this inept performance is what we get from the boardroom of Blackburn Rovers football club.

To suggest Souness or Allardyce as possible successors shows weaknesses in the men in power at Ewood Park.

[BuckyRover]

I work as an Analyst, I have a little experience in statistical significance.

The poll is biased, anybody could work that out.....

The fact there was not a murmur at the match backs this up.

What is your theory?

[den]

can you not accept that there are people out ther that support ince,you never answered my question if we get a new manager and he loses a few games will u call for his head?

First part, of course there are people who still support him. Don't ask silly questions.

Will I call for a new managers head if he loses a few games? - No. If we go on a run where we take three points out of thirty - maybe.

[LeChuck]

How long did you train as an analyst to be able to analyse with such depth Bucky?

[yoda]

can you not accept that there are people out ther that support ince,you never answered my question if we get a new manager and he loses a few games will u call for his head?

getting a new manager would be to stop the current run and not lose another 4 on the trot!