[Archived] Paul Ince

[my_name_is_Earl]

it shows that there is fans out there that are backing the manager.Can i ask you one question if we get a new manager and he loses his first 4 games in a row will you be calling for his head?

Very naive comment islander. The fact is that most of the anti-Ince fans on here are aware that the problems do not necessarily come just from the results. Team selection etc. (there are so many things to list here) is made by the manager and the manager alone and he has to take reponsibility if they don't pay off. Don't allow yourself to be seduced into Ince's 'everyone hates me' mentality.

[den]

I work as an Analyst, I have a little experience in statistical significance.

The poll is biased, anybody could work that out.....

The fact there was not a murmur at the match backs this up.

What is your theory?

I dunno Bucky, you're the analyst. You tell us why the poll is biased and why lack of demos backs up the point.

[yoda]

I work as an Analyst, I have a little experience in statistical significance.

The poll is biased, anybody could work that out.....

The fact there was not a murmur at the match backs this up.

What is your theory?

Is the PL table biased?

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

I think it's because for all the ranting, raving "Ince OOT!" "I've made a banner as big as the BBE!" comments and talks of protesting outside the Jack Walker, there wasn't a peep, even during the game. For such an overwhelming percentage of people screaming "HE GUTTA GO NOW HES GORRA GO IM GONNA BASH HIS 'ED IN", the fact that there wasn't even a significant chant or boo directed at him kinda destroys the argument. It's not representative of the fans as a whole in any way. And if you think it is, who gave you the right to speak for the 18,000 others?

[my_name_is_Earl]

I work as an Analyst, I have a little experience in statistical significance.

The poll is biased, anybody could work that out.....

The fact there was not a murmur at the match backs this up.

What is your theory?

Who says the poll is biased? and even if it is, it still tells you that people want Ince out. They're not voting in intense conditions with the threat of limbs being removed if they don't vote sack Ince. The fact is you have been unable to provide one good reason why Ince should keep his job. I am genuinely open-minded and can be convinced even if my colours are already stuck to the mast.

[den]

I think it is highly dangerous and irresponsible if the message from the board is that they want to see a massive physical demonstration by the fans before taking action on the Manager.

With regards to the polls on here, unless you have good reason to believe that the people of brfcs are so statistically skewed that they are in no way a representative sample of the Rovers home gate then two polls of over 450 out of a population of roughly 25,000 are statistically significant particularly when the margins have been so big (60-40 and now 75-20).

At some point, surely, there needs to be a football judgement and a business judgement exercised by the board.

Quite right Philip. Suggestions that JW is going to be making decisions only when the fans demonstrate, are ludicrous.

[AndyC]

No, there was no demonstration. So what?

What you're doing Tris, is saying that posts/polls on m/b's, posts in the LT or anywhere else are completely meaningless, but the lack of a demonstration at a game [after you have urged everyone to show support] is evidence that there is NO discontent. Hmmmmm.....

doesn't take a genius to work out that if the fans were all united in the common belief that ince should go, then they would have voiced it during or after the match v liverpool.

As it didn't happen, especially when we were losing by 2 goals, suggests to me that the majority think that Ince can turn it around.

how many of the 330 voters were there on saturday?

We still keep coming back to the same issue though! those that have wanted ince out before a ball was kicked and those that wanted to give him a chance.

The yardstick for me personally has always been the start of the Jan transfer window.

If we are still in the relegation zone, then he has to go. If not - someone else has to come in. (I personally would jump at Big sam, who is almost identical to Mark hughes - boring but effective football.)

[Blackpool_Rover]

The truth is that the board don't want to sack Ince, im sure the majority of Rovers fans, including me, dont want to sack Ince. (Not the majority of posters on this board, many of which seem to be idiotic). The SAD FACT is that in the current football climate, If the next couple of games go the wrong way, the board have no choice but to sack him. I would say sack him, not because i want to but because there is no choice. Im still sure he is going to be a succesful top flight manager. The players are as much to blame in all of this also. But because of the risk of relegation we have to sack him. 20 years ago, in this same situation, even with the risk of relegation we wouldnt be forced to sack him. We could give him the time HE DESERVES and hope that he turns it around, which is very possible. Then if relegation happened, sack him. Unfortunately, now, in 2008, due to the money involved in football and the tv rights and players wages, agents etc etc Relegation would kill Blackburn Rovers. We would not bounce back. Not for a long long time anyway. So thats why, unless the next few games produce maximum points, sadly, he has to go.

[my_name_is_Earl]

I think it's because for all the ranting, raving "Ince OOT!" "I've made a banner as big as the BBE!" comments and talks of protesting outside the Jack Walker, there wasn't a peep, even during the game. For such an overwhelming percentage of people screaming "HE GUTTA GO NOW HES GORRA GO IM GONNA BASH HIS 'ED IN", the fact that there wasn't even a significant chant or boo directed at him kinda destroys the argument. It's not representative of the fans as a whole in any way. And if you think it is, who gave you the right to speak for the 18,000 others?

There was lots of 'peeps' making noise. Where do you sit? The truth of the matter is that I, personally, was relieved to see some effort and wanted a result primarily before the sacking of Ince. Anyway, why does the lack of demonstration suggest that the fans aren't fed up with the current regime. The truth is the board should be able to make decisions without having to wait for a violent protest.

[islander200]

Very naive comment islander. The fact is that most of the anti-Ince fans on here are aware that the problems do not necessarily come just from the results. Team selection etc. (there are so many things to list here) is made by the manager and the manager alone and he has to take reponsibility if they don't pay off. Don't allow yourself to be seduced into Ince's 'everyone hates me' mentality.

Dont accuse me of being naive,i read with my own two eyes posts on this message board calling for inces head when he lost a game in pre season(it was not just one post).I also cannoot believe the amount of people on her who now want big sam as manager after the outcry in the summer(i was not one of those people i think he did a fantastic job at bolton)Yes ince has made mistakes but when he joined he spoke of a3 or 4 year plan emphasising the importance of the youth set up.YOU cant judge a manager after 15 games yes the table looks bad but put a couple of wins together and your talking mid-table.Look at gareth southgate didnt win in his first 14 games but boro stuck by him and they now hav a decent side littered with home grown talent

[Amo]

Robinson is a decent keeper,cant judge grella because he has been injured(i suppose ince is to blame)i remember the excitement on here when villanueva signed,and andrews is not bad at least he can string a pass together unlike some of our other players

* Jury's still out about Robinson.

* Grella is injury prone, and we shouldn't have paid such a substantial fee for a holding midfielder when we already had a competent one - Vogel.

* Villanueva's potential means nothing if he never plays, and when he does it's out of position.

* Andrews is not PL standard.

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

There was lots of 'peeps' making noise. Where do you sit? The truth of the matter is that I, personally, was relieved to see some effort and wanted a result primarily before the sacking of Ince. Anyway, why does the lack of demonstration suggest that the fans aren't fed up with the current regime. The truth is the board should be able to make decisions without having to wait for a violent protest.

Centre of the Lower BBE. You?

I heard a few moans but nothing sustained. Same old suspects too.

[Tris]

No, there was no demonstration. So what?

What you're doing Tris, is saying that posts/polls on m/b's, posts in the LT or anywhere else are completely meaningless, but the lack of a demonstration at a game [after you have urged everyone to show support] is evidence that there is NO discontent. Hmmmmm.....

I haven't said any of that so don't put words in my mouth.

Anyone who's been going to Ewood long enough knows that the crowd is capable of getting a message across. You said so yourself. The crowd is even capable of getting a message across AND supporting the team - especially when a poor 3rd goal is conceded in the 90th minute, so any subsequent crowd discontent has no effect on the result.

"Completely meaningless" - again your words and I've said nothing of the sort. I've said that the behaviour / abusive posting of many posters on this MB is not representative of the Ewood crowd on Saturday - and nobody - even you - can claim the opposite without lying through their teeth.

"No discontent" - I haven't said that EITHER! Of course there's a lot of anti-Ince feeling, but not at the level evident on here. 320 votes is 1.5% of the paying public on Saturday - so statistically that is not representative either.

If you're going to pick up on what I post, then at least have the good grace to respond to what I actually write, rather than spinning your own form of words and passing that off as my opinion.

[yoda]

The truth is that the board don't want to sack Ince, im sure the majority of Rovers fans, including me, dont want to sack Ince. (Not the majority of posters on this board, many of which seem to be idiotic). The SAD FACT is that in the current football climate, If the next couple of games go the wrong way, the board have no choice but to sack him. I would say sack him, not because i want to but because there is no choice. Im still sure he is going to be a succesful top flight manager. The players are as much to blame in all of this also. But because of the risk of relegation we have to sack him. 20 years ago, in this same situation, even with the risk of relegation we wouldnt be forced to sack him. We could give him the time HE DESERVES and hope that he turns it around, which is very possible. Then if relegation happened, sack him. Unfortunately, now, in 2008, due to the money involved in football and the tv rights and players wages, agents etc etc Relegation would kill Blackburn Rovers. We would not bounce back. Not for a long long time anyway. So thats why, unless the next few games produce maximum points, sadly, he has to go.

why does he deserve more time? what has he done to earn more time?

that sounds like when people talk about having this and that right, since when?

[den]

doesn't take a genius to work out that if the fans were all united in the common belief that ince should go, then they would have voiced it during or after the match v liverpool.

Argument falls down at the first hurdle there.

I was on my feet cheering and shouting, nor did I boo or demonstrate in any way whatsoever at the end. Baz likewise. Doesn't mean I/we don't want him replaced though does it? How many more like us eh?

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

"No discontent" - I haven't said that EITHER! Of course there's a lot of anti-Ince feeling, but not at the level evident on here. 320 votes is 1.5% of the paying public on Saturday - so statistically that is not representative either.

If you're going to pick up on what I post, then at least have the good grace to respond to what I actually write, rather than spinning your own form of words and passing that off as my opinion.

Just to add, of those 320 there will be plenty who don't attend due to distance, so the percentage in reality will be lower.

[AndyC]

the biggest question I'd like answering, is whether he still has the dressing room.

the gutter press will be feeding like vultures around the club at the moment, trying to get the players to spill the beans.

How come we haven't heard any player unrest stories yet? It happens at every club once the manager has lost the dressing room.

The other major question, is what on earth would a new manager coming in now actually do? His midfielders are all injured or rubbish. Benni has looked terrible under the messiah hughes. And the defence is only as strong as its weakest link - which is an ageing nelson.

Argument falls down at the first hurdle there.

I was on my feet cheering and shouting, nor did I boo or demonstrate in any way whatsoever at the end. Baz likewise. Doesn't mean I/we don't want him replaced though does it? How many more like us eh?

true enough. but the herd mentality of the crowd normally prevails.

were you not surprised that there wasn't any chanting?

[yoda]

Argument falls down at the first hurdle there.

I was on my feet cheering and shouting, nor did I boo or demonstrate in any way whatsoever at the end. Baz likewise. Doesn't mean I/we don't want him replaced though does it? How many more like us eh?

I think the majority are like you, support the team at the matches through thick and thin, count me in!

[Blackpool_Rover]

why does he deserve more time? what has he done to earn more time?

that sounds like when people talk about having this and that right, since when?

Of course he deserves more bloody time! Why? Because this is real life and not and not a football manager computer game.

[RibbleValleyRover]

The lack of a fans protest could have been simply due to the opposition we were playing. Most fans were surely expecting a defeat against a far superior side so what they wanted to see was an improved performance and up until late in the second half they got that. If we were playing an inferior side, a side we should be beating then i think you would have seen a different crowd reaction to the result.

[yoda]

Of course he deserves more bloody time! Why? Because this is real life and not and not a football manager computer game.

yes and the real life situation is we are next to bottom of the PL and not looking like we can even get a draw, never mind a win.

real life, he is paid a vast sum of money to perform!

transpose that into your work environment

[islander200]

Of course he deserves more bloody time! Why? Because this is real life and not and not a football manager computer game.

here here

[my_name_is_Earl]

Dont accuse me of being naive,i read with my own two eyes posts on this message board calling for inces head when he lost a game in pre season(it was not just one post).I also cannoot believe the amount of people on her who now want big sam as manager after the outcry in the summer(i was not one of those people i think he did a fantastic job at bolton)Yes ince has made mistakes but when he joined he spoke of a3 or 4 year plan emphasising the importance of the youth set up.YOU cant judge a manager after 15 games yes the table looks bad but put a couple of wins together and your talking mid-table.Look at gareth southgate didnt win in his first 14 games but boro stuck by him and they now hav a decent side littered with home grown talent

ARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!! I'm sorry mate but why can't you judge a manager after fifteen games when the team is lacklustre, the same team minus one player (Bentley, Robbo is equal enough to Brad in my opinion). Do you want to be in the championship next season? because that is where we will be next season with Ince in charge. What is it that gives you any confidence in Ince's methods? Personally, i'd be delighted if Ince could turn it around because my clubs interests are the main thing in all of this, sadly Paul Ince does not have the quality at this stage of his management career to get us out of this position.

On a side note, a seventh placed club last season should have merited a better short list than Allardyce, McClaren etc. However, such has been the decline in fortunes that we are now having to look at those men who have experience of getting us out of this rut. That is why they are suddenly being called to the front-line - horses for courses.

[den]

were you not surprised that there wasn't any chanting?

In truth I didn't know what to expect, and to clarify, I wasn't one of the posters urging it either.

Thing is AndyC, things change quickly. It could be so different if we don't beat Stoke in our next home game. Who knows?

[yoda]

here here

yes and the real life situation is we are next to bottom of the PL and not looking like we can even get a draw, never mind a win.

real life, he is paid a vast sum of money to perform!

transpose that into your work environment

there there