[Archived] Paul Ince

[my_name_is_Earl]

Andy C do you honestly think the players will say they unhappy with Ince. They always come out either refraining from answering the question,or they pretend that all is rosy.

I agree Iceman. What is said to the cameras and what is said behind closed doors is entirely different. Any leaks that do emerge are immediately dismissed as rumours becuase some people believe that every media story is based on fiction.

[islander200]

Why are they not as good anymore? Is it them personally or is it the managers (coaches) influence? Obviously thats open to debate. You seem like someone who is comfortable with failure (which can be a good thing sometimes), going from seventh to nineteenth? You don't turn that bad overnight! Wake up and smell the coffee, we are heading for the trap door!

Anyway, what are the reasons you would suggest as to give Ince more time?

So you think nelson,peds amd benni are still as good as they were 2 seasons ago?You must not watch a lot of games?It has nothing to do with the coaching injurys are to blame for nelson and benni and peds have just lost interest

[T4E]

If you can quote me saying anything of the sort in the last 3 weeks I'll answer.

I'm talking very specifically about John Williams comment in the LET "the crowd could have gone either way".

That's now been twisted into the lack of a "demonstation" - not what I've said anywhere, or I should imagine what JW means with that comment.

So what exactly is it you're trying to say? That not all the fans want Ince out, because there was no demonstration? Therefore that means those that didn't demonstrate want him to stay? Yet you didn't demonstrate? But you don't want him to stay?

Help me out here.

[my_name_is_Earl]

As i said in my original post. If the next couple of games dont improve, he has to go. Doesnt mean to say i like it. Id like to give him a chance. But he has to go.

Fair play to you in this comment Blackpool Rover. Although there is obviously a huge split in opinion on this matter, you actually seem to understand the dire situation we are in even as someone who doesn't want an imminent sacking.

[den]

If you can quote me saying anything of the sort in the last 3 weeks I'll answer.

I'm talking very specifically about John Williams comment in the LET "the crowd could have gone either way".

That's now been twisted into the lack of a "demonstation" - not what I've said anywhere, or I should imagine what JW means with that comment.

I think the thing is Tris, you keep telling us what you didn't say, but when asked what you DO think, you say it doesn't matter.

[Iceman]

Islander, the level and standard 3 divisions down are completey different to those in the premierleague. I trusted my own judgements by indicating that ince's inexperience at the highest level will prove decisive. As it stands im correct in what i thought would happen. The mere fact of the matter is, his biggest mistake was to link up with an equally poor and not at all capable backroom staff. Its like being a builder for the 1st time, you have guys around you that dont know what they doing, will guarantee a flop as an end result. Still inces capabilities at the highest level has been heavily exposed, and without the necessary financial backing we will be in trouble if he continues.

[RibbleValleyRover]

The insulting language directed at Ince, which is now being picked up by Oliver Holt.

Holt claims that the language is race driven:

"I do think some of the criticism of Ince, and I'm not talking about journalists here, is colour-driven. I think we waited for an awful long time to get a British-born black manager, a mixed-race manager, into the Premier League and there is almost an undue haste with which he is being driven out."

Must be just me but i haven't see any criticism blamed on Ince because of the colour of his skin. I have seen criticism and valid criticism in my view because we are 19th in the table, haven't won in 10 league games have conceded over 30 goals so far this season. This is a results based business its as simple as that.

Another quote from Holt:

"I am talking about callers to phone-ins and message boards and I think that some of that is underlining this discussion about Ince. For instance, Roy Keane was not under the pressure that Paul Ince is under."

I've listened to pretty much every phone in I could over the past few weeks as I wanted to gauge the feeling or general consensus of the Rovers fanbase. Every caller I’ve heard on these phone-ins has said they want Ince out due to the simple fact that our form is shocking. I've checked out numerous other football messageboards as well; Roverstalk, 606, The official messageboard and haven't see one derogatory comment towards Ince based on race.

Holt’s views are utter tosh and i getting sick of fans trying to justify or give a case to his completley stupid comments.

[Plastic Head]

What improvements do the folk on here think can be made between now and Saturday by the current coaching staff?

Basic things like defending and set pieces are a mess. This could be sorted out quickly but has been awful for 3 months so why would it change now.

Could they coach the current players to be better in a week?

Is the problem team selection and if so what could they do?

PI might be determined and passionate about getting things right but he hasn't put in the hours to do it, in the same way he did't put in the hours to get his badges.

The players lack the guidance and instruction to go out and beat a team like Wigan, and 7 days won't change that.

If we wait until Stoke beat us to act we'll be 10-12 pts behind them and they are a team we need to finish above to stay in the league...so it will probably already be too late.

[my_name_is_Earl]

So you think nelson,peds amd benni are still as good as they were 2 seasons ago?You must not watch a lot of games?It has nothing to do with the coaching injurys are to blame for nelson and benni and peds have just lost interest

I actually manage to get to get to a few away games as well as holding a season ticket and going to roughly half of the pre-season friendlies (although I do feel that those results weren't of the utmost importance).

Nonetheless, I actually agree with you, those players aren't playing as well as they can do but my point was that it could either be a managerial (coaching) reason or a player reason. You can't actually argue with me on this one because it's an opinion based answer. How can you suggest that Nelsen isn't as good because of injuries? In one sweeping statement (which you wouldn't know anyway because you're not Ryan Nelsen) you've completely dismissed the impact of psychology on ones actions which is arguably of more importance then physical ability depending on which side of the fence you sit on.

I think the thing is Tris, you keep telling us what you didn't say, but when asked what you DO think, you say it doesn't matter.

I'd love to hear why Tris thinks Ince should be given a longer stay?

[mhead]

Because I am working abroad I have no comment to make about PI who i have always supported(like anyone else running my club)

My season ticket is being used by someone else but I am HUGELY looking forward to Saturdays Away match at Wigan...my first since Fulham at home. I will then not see the Rovers until mid-Feb live.This is a blip after over 50 years of going to 30 matches per season.

The 320 who voted to sack the Manager....40% do not go. My friends(all S/T holders) are depressed and say Stoke City at home is the crucial "line in the sand" like with Woy Hodgson and Brian Kidd. I believe the key reason for the failure this season is the very weak Midfield with no 5,6 and 7 choices playing too much(plus a weakened full back line-up as a result). The poor fullbacks plus no Bentley mean our attacking options are not enough to play in the Premier. We need Emerton and Warnockat fullback.

So all you can shoot at PI are 2 things: the non-buying of a Bentley replacement and the poor comments "giving in" to the Top 4.

But Goal difference NEVER lies and we are 2nd worst SO the Club always comes first and PI will have to go. The "Mob" mentality on here has been so disappointing and ALMOST from the Pre-Season friendlies.That is why Oliver Holt's charge does need some answering.

As one of the silent majority this thread is very sad because most of us do not want it to be like this.

[Iceman]

T4E clearly you are wasting your time explaining. What was important is the fans getting behind the team, doesnt mean they were behind Ince. Ince and some on here still believe that because the crowd were singing and cheering the team on,that the majority of the fans are still backing Ince. Utter madness!

[Sysagent]

does anybody on here know any of the players?

i'd really love to know whether he still has the dressing room.

once a manager loses it, it's goodnight sweetheart

PM me if you dont want to say it publicly!

Dunny likes him.

[The Harwood Yankee]

Dunny likes him.

Only cos he's scared to death in case Ince is sacked and Souness comes back!

[RevidgeBlue]

No, there was no demonstration. So what?

What you're doing Tris, is saying that posts/polls on m/b's, posts in the LT or anywhere else are completely meaningless, but the lack of a demonstration at a game [after you have urged everyone to show support] is evidence that there is NO discontent. Hmmmmm.....

Den, you're being particularly pig headed on this issue.

NO-ONE (read that again) NO-ONE is happy with results or our League position.

However like I said last week, I would suggest that the majority of the fans in the ground on Saturday would be happy to keep Ince IF he could put a sequence of good results on the Board.

Hence the reason for the lack of the anticipated demonstrations on Saturday.

This squabbling with fellow fans really is counterproductive. If you really want Ince removed that badly you really should turn your attention to the Board. They're the only ones who can sack him and if most reports apart from nicko are to be believed, they don't appear to be prepared to do so yet.

[Drunx2002]

One interesting point about this whole saga is that it has to some extent been caused by the transfer window.

With the midfield wrecked by injuries to Reid, Grella and Dunn, plus other players losing form we have lost the ability to buy or even loan replacements other than those who are out of contract. Now, you could argue that Ince should have mitigated for this because all three are to some extent injury prone, but for all three to be out long-term at the same time is unlucky! He should have replaced Bentley in time which, IMO is one of his biggest mistakes.

Now, with the transfer window looming, we are all having this argument mainly because if a new manager is coming in he needs to have time to assess the squad before the window opens. Plus he needs time to scout and aquire players when it does open.

If you could trade players at any time I'm sure we would have strengthened the midfield long ago and replaced Bentley and not be in this mess. If in this strange parallel dimension we were 19th in the league in early December, we perhaps wouldnt be in such a rush to find a replacement manager as he could buy/sell players (and also increase funds by doing so) until the end of March.

The transfer window is not set in stone by law like the Bosman ruling. So why on earth have it?!

[Sysagent]

Only cos he's scared to death in case Ince is sacked and Souness comes back!

Heh, this was before all the horsesh1t about Souness coming was being touted about.

[AndyC]

Andy C do you honestly think the players will say they unhappy with Ince. They always come out either refraining from answering the question,or they pretend that all is rosy.

i'm not talking about them talking to the media directly, but there's normally loads of stories from 'an unnamed source' and they don't seem to have happened.

Also - I was more interested if anyone on this board actually knows any players as friends.

I don't expect people to name players, but after being part of this message board for 10 years, I know the people I would trust if they told me some info!

[mattyboy6000]

it shows that there is fans out there that are backing the manager.Can i ask you one question if we get a new manager and he loses his first 4 games in a row will you be calling for his head?

they were supporting the club- and the team who were trying very hard. it doesn't have much significance to ince.

asfor your question, maybe we can adopt ince's logic here.! http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/11082008/4/i...on-t-judge.html

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Simply judge Ince on the team performance under his tenure.......

HE HAS FAILED MISERABLY AS RESULTS SHOW

[Exiled in Toronto]

How long did you train as an analyst to be able to analyse with such depth Bucky?

If it helps any, I have a degree in statistics and used to manage one of the UK's top consumer market research departments, and Bucky is right, the poll is meaningless. In fact, it would be hard to design one more flawed.

Philip is right to say that the margin of difference between sack and back is significant, but the sample is not random, in fact, far from it, which invalidates any conclusions being applied to the general population of Rovers supporters. Also, the options are not complete, many respondents may well want to vote 'wait and see', which was not a choice.

If 500 people had been asked at random as they left the ground, approached proportional to the attendances in the different seating areas, and 80% said sack, then that would be valid, as long as there was the third option of 'wait and see'.

[my_name_is_Earl]

they were supporting the club- and the team who were trying very hard. it doesn't have much significance to ince.

asfor your question, maybe we can adopt ince's logic here.! http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/11082008/4/i...on-t-judge.html

Technically, could the last sentence of that article transform to if we don't win in ten league games?

[mattyboy6000]

you could argue that Ince should have mitigated for this because all three are to some extent injury prone, but for all three to be out long-term at the same time is unlucky!

see I'm with the first part of your post- reid and dunn are traditional sicknoters. i don't think the both of them being injured at the same time is unlucky, it was predictable, and Ince should have mitigated that risk (could have least let Vogel stay half fit!!)

Technically, could the last sentence of that article transform to if we don't win in ten league games?

aye- I guess logic and ince are too much of a juxtaposition really aren't they?

[Drunx2002]

NO-ONE (read that again) NO-ONE is happy with results or our League position.

However like I said last week, I would suggest that the majority of the fans in the ground on Saturday would be happy to keep Ince IF he could put a sequence of good results on the Board.

Hence the reason for the lack of the anticipated demonstrations on Saturday.

That sums it up well for me.

I voted for ince to stay in the original poll. When it was reset (the resetting was immediately after the OT shambles and was obviously designed for the results it achieved) I was angry and voted to sack. I'm a bit of a sheeplike football fan. Don't get to Ewood much these days - mostly get to London away games - but had we put in no effort and been sunk early by Liverpool and people had started chanting I would probably have joined in. It takes a lot of balls to stand up and chant against the manager if the team are getting stuck in and those around you are cheering the team on.

The big test (if he stays that long) is what happens the next time we perform poorly at home. I was expecting this to be Liverpool. It may be Stoke. Let's hope we get 5 wins on the bounce and all end up laughing at how worked up we all got over this. They are "winnable" games after all!

[my_name_is_Earl]

aye- I guess logic and ince are too much of a juxtaposition really aren't they?

I'm just wondering, to what extent did Ince make a rod for his own back with such comments? I mean if he hadn't have felt that he needed time at the start and gone to the press with it and made it public, perhaps some fans would have been more positive earlier on in his tenure which would have certainly helped him now.

[mattyboy6000]

If it helps any, I have a degree in statistics and used to manage one of the UK's top consumer market research departments

you say "used to" - were you fired, or simply promoted?