[Archived] Paul Ince

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

It wouldn't be Coyle because Nicko would be right on the nose with it.

Unless he's been told to keep quiet.

[roverfanuk]

It wouldn't be Coyle because Nicko would be right on the nose with it.

Unless he's been told to keep quiet.

Well he hasnt replied to my 2 comments about it, or the other chap who brought it up!

One could even suspect that he is being purposely deceptive about it!

[Tris]

I remember two games into the 91/92 season fans singing we want Mackay out I say we want Mackay out. It was very loud and it was obvious he got the message as I remember him being pretty upset.

I was expecting something similar if not worse on Saturday and many others commented on this in the pub beforehand. Apart from the odd comment to Ince I heard nothing and to be honest those comments have been throughout the season.

Does that mean the fans back Ince? Of course not, but it certainly means it would be very difficult to assume the crowd want him out. That is the point Tris is making as far I can tell and why Den can't/won't see that is beyond me. Basically I and others commented that it could be cringeworthy on Saturday watching the fans chant for him to leave. Instead we heard pretty much nothing.

Either way the fans were either pro Ince, willing to give him a bit more time or couldn't be bothered saying if they felt different. Some said they would wait until the game finished but in the end they waited until they got back to their pc's.

Couldn't put it better myself (which was becoming obvious!)

[DingleBaiter]

I think it is highly dangerous and irresponsible if the message from the board is that they want to see a massive physical demonstration by the fans before taking action on the Manager.

I have heard that the weight of e-mails and letters to the Chairman are in favour of a change in Manager and that the numbers received were over 1,000 after the Man U game- don't know if that is accurate or not.

With regards to the polls on here, unless you have good reason to believe that the people of brfcs are so statistically skewed that they are in no way a representative sample of the Rovers home gate then two polls of over 450 out of a population of roughly 25,000 are statistically significant particularly when the margins have been so big (60-40 and now 75-20).

At some point, surely, there needs to be a football judgement and a business judgement exercised by the board.

I cannot see any rational or sane basis for not making the change in the management team.

Cmon Philip, you should know more than anyone the power of numbers, especially statistics.

Suppose JW replied to each of the 1000+ letters and asked for a copy of their Man United ticket, to ensure a personal response that he would address with them?

Point being there has to be an element of 'stakeholding' to those that want a change - or we're in the same bracket as the Daily Mail readers on Wossgate and/or the 3,000 pimplegeeks off FB.

Of course, the results are indicative of mass unrest against Ince, but where's the median & control group in this? Isn't the unwritten law of comment on the internet that negativity's always loudest - unless someone famous dies?

If we're skewing perceptions here, what about this .... Initially, the amount of dis-satisfaction and unrest on the whole sorry Ince tenure was inversely proportional to attendance at games. That is, the 'rank and file' Rovers fans at games - even if not enamoured with Ince - seemed not to share the worries of the Internet/remote fans, or at least were not as vocal. More worrying of the present decline is those that have gradually changed their stance, either from supporting Ince or not wanting BFS at all, to reflect the current shambles.

Discuss.

[Iceman]

Nicko out of all your other predictions,which you got right. How sure are you on this Ince being sacked story? Just wondering,and off topic but any news about Drogba leaving for Arsenal in January?

[nicko]

It wouldn't be Coyle because Nicko would be right on the nose with it.

Unless he's been told to keep quiet.

Owen is not the 'mystery' possibility.

Sorry, got to go...Ramon Calderon on the other line...

[Tris]

Help me out here.

Erm .... no.

I put the other pair of chief wind up merchants on "ignore" 3 weeks ago - I can't believe you slipped through the net

[brfc4ever]

Be ready to eat humble pie in a few hours mate...

Where is my pie ??

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Owen is not the 'mystery' possibility.

Sorry, got to go...Ramon Calderon on the other line...

You'd think you'd have broadband by now Alan.

[Iceman]

Hughesy you have gone quiet. Lol

[nicko]

Nicko out of all your other predictions,which you got right. How sure are you on this Ince being sacked story? Just wondering,and off topic but any news about Drogba leaving for Arsenal in January?

With transfer stories it's a case of a few factors falling into place - and getting to know a few of them being in place in advance.

With this current managerial situation I would suggest it is down to two things - how do we explain the sacking and who do we bring in next?

To my knowledge this current board has not sacked a manager. So perhaps they should be forgiven for a slight fluff or two last week in their preparations.

As for completing the job, only the board can answer that - at least we should know tomorrow.

No idea on Drogba. If that is happening the better story would be about the bank heist Arsenal pulled off to pay for it.

[RevidgeBlue]

You are starting to wear a bit thin.

I said on Saturday - along with four other newspapers who had found out the same info independently - that calls had been made by your club about other managers.

I knew there was a board meeting on Tuesday, which is why we got the '48-hour line' in the People.

You can defend your actions how you like, I know you have to sell a few papers and earn a living but the fact remains that unless Ince goes before the Wigan game, your story was just plain wrong and merely served to destabilise the club ahead of a crucial game.

As regards the phone calls, the club would probably be being remiss if they didn't at least make some preliminary contingency plans, I don't really understand what an employee of Sunderland has to gain by leaking stories about us to the media - unless it's simply to get paid for the story.

As regards Tuesday's Board meeting is it not possible that it is a weekly / monthly meeting at a normal time as opposed to a specially convened one?

I don't know, you would probably know that one better than me.

[FourLaneBlue]

I think he's going to base his actions on what happens at Ewood Park rather than a tiny fraction of fans who press a "sack" button on an internet poll. 300 votes out of 3,000 members doesn't come close to speaking for 20,000 fans who totally failed to vociferously can the manager after a 3-1 defeat.

JW should not base what he does on the response of the fans but on whether he thinks Ince is the best man we can get for the job ahead. People pressing buttons on an internet forum or cheering on the team or not are all irrelevant compared to that one fact.

If Ince is the best man then give him full backing. If not then get rid.

We are not in a position where we can hang about deciding or give much more time. They can choose to either back or sack but they must choose one.

[mattyboy6000]

What a stupid view of the world, and one held by chief trouble maker Tdrog.

You can believe, as I do, that Ince's appointment has nothing to do with the colour of his skin, and that it was an important step forward for black people in football.

but given that i'm pro-integration - I don't possess your "us" and "them" mentality- there's no such thing as a black man, or a white man. its a nonsense, perpetuated by 2d thinkers.

[yoda]

but given that i'm pro-integration - I don't possess your "us" and "them" mentality- there's no such thing as a black man, or a white man. its a nonsense, perpetuated by 2d thinkers.

well said

[den]

I remember two games into the 91/92 season fans singing we want Mackay out I say we want Mackay out. It was very loud and it was obvious he got the message as I remember him being pretty upset.

I was expecting something similar if not worse on Saturday and many others commented on this in the pub beforehand. Apart from the odd comment to Ince I heard nothing and to be honest those comments have been throughout the season.

Does that mean the fans back Ince? Of course not, but it certainly means it would be very difficult to assume the crowd want him out. That is the point Tris is making as far I can tell and why Den can't/won't see that is beyond me. Basically I and others commented that it could be cringeworthy on Saturday watching the fans chant for him to leave. Instead we heard pretty much nothing.

Either way the fans were either pro Ince, willing to give him a bit more time or couldn't be bothered saying if they felt different. Some said they would wait until the game finished but in the end they waited until they got back to their pc's.

Right MB. That comes over slightly different to how I was reading Tris's posts, so if I misunderstood, then I apologise.

I understood Tris to be using the lack of any crowd reaction, as evidence that the number of posts on here from people wanting a change of manager, are in no way representative of the real feelings of the overall number of fans. In fact it sounded to me as though Tris was using that as evidence of the complete opposite - that he thinks that demonstrated the support for the manager. You're saying that it actually proves nothing?

Doesn't change much though, does it.

[PAFELL]

but given that i'm pro-integration - I don't possess your "us" and "them" mentality- there's no such thing as a black man, or a white man. its a nonsense, perpetuated by 2d thinkers.

You should have gone to specsavers

All the same I understand where you are coming from, basically a person is a person no matter the skin colour etc.

[nicko]

You can defend your actions how you like, I know you have to sell a few papers and earn a living but the fact remains that unless Ince goes before the Wigan game, your story was just plain wrong and merely served to destabilise the club ahead of a crucial game.

As regards the phone calls, the club would probably be being remiss if they didn't at least make some preliminary contingency plans, I don't really understand what an employee of Sunderland has to gain by leaking stories about us to the media - unless it's simply to get paid for the story.

As regards Tuesday's Board meeting is it not possible that it is a weekly / monthly meeting at a normal time as opposed to a specially convened one?

I don't know, you would probably know that one better than me.

Hold on...you say the story I wrote on Saturday about the calls that were made was wrong and then you say it was right...can you make your mind up?

And, as you know, the board meeting is scheduled.

However after all of the homework that was done last week - and NOT just with one club - that was all part of the ongoing moves and plans.

[den]

You can defend your actions how you like, I know you have to sell a few papers and earn a living but the fact remains that unless Ince goes before the Wigan game, your story was just plain wrong and merely served to destabilise the club ahead of a crucial game.

Not taking sides here Rev, because the story is destabilising, no doubt. BUT, the club could come out and give their backing to Ince, deny the tabloid stories and that would cut Nicko in half wouldn't it. Hasn't happened yet though, has it.

Personally, if Nicko or any other journalist comes out with stories like these, if I couldn't repudiate them, I would have to take a back seat and wait and see.

[nicko]

Anyway, got a bet to see go down the pan on the telly, so off for the night.

Just one thought before the board meeting tomorrow.

It is the biggest decision in the modern history of your club.

There can't be room for muddled thinking or worrying about what people will say - or write.

It's obvious from some of the boardroom leakers on here that there is a little quivering of the lips and bottoms among the decision-makers...

Be brave. If you want to sack the guy, do it swiftly. If you want to back him, come out and say so and give him the money.

All the best.

[Exiled in Toronto]

you say "used to" - were you fired, or simply promoted?

Promoted and eventually retired old boy!

[thenodrog]

No-one deserves treating like this.

Exactly Simon it must be really crap and insulting for Ince by having to endure another week of turning up late for work, 2 hours a day kick-about, having the odd argy bargy with a player or two and all for a measly 30kper week.

Anybody else share our concern?

[Exiled in Toronto]

Lies, damned lies, and statistics

A comment that applies much more to the results of the poll than wot I rote. The poll result is a statistic, but one based on a crap statistical method.

if you think its wrong come up with a better one!

I bet you get a similar result

12 of my family and friends are season ticket holders and I am the only one who thinks Ince should have already been fired. Two think this week and the rest at or after Xmas if things don't improve. Not a similar result but an equally flawed piece of research.

Unfortunately, "I bet" doesn't count in the world of consumer research. Corporate fortunes have been lost because of the Chairman's Wife syndrome.

[RevidgeBlue]

Hold on...you say the story I wrote on Saturday about the calls that were made was wrong and then you say it was right...can you make your mind up?

As things stand it's wrong because of your original insistence that Ince would be sacked regardless of result of Liverpool game/and /or within 48 hours etc etc

I'm prepared to take on face value what you say about the calls and I thank you for going into so much detail about that, but it does seem bizarre beyond belief that

a) If we genuinely hope to land Allardyce we should contact our direct rivals Sunderland re: his availability rather than Allardyce or Allardyce's agent themselves.

b ) We should inform Sunderland about our fall back plans should Allardyce not still be available.

[thenodrog]

Should never appoint someone on a Sunday Its bad Luck too!

Good point majiball.