[Archived] Paul Ince

[Guest Kamy100]

Well done Paul and Den, superb posts that just about sum up the situation perfectly.

As against Liverpool last week we all now need to focus on the Wigan game. If we can win it'll be 3 massive points. It is a huge game and team needs our support. The arguments about Ince etc can wait until after the Wigan game. I read somewhere else that fans were almost prepared to lose at Wigan if it meant Ince was shown the door, I find that kind of logic very difficult to understand.

[roverfanuk]

Suddenly that looks a likely list. But all of them will b given funds larger than ours - OHhhhh!

Mick McCarthy - Possibly...

Alex McLeish - Doubt it...

Steve Coppell - Not a chance...

Dave Jones - Nope!

Neil Warnock - Nope!

Chris Coleman - Nope!

Paul Sturrock - Nope!

Paul Jewell - Maybe...

Glenn Roeder - Not a chance!

[LDRover]

Two things we need to get our heads around.

1) Our gutless board have bottled a big decision in potting Ince. As such we have to support the team and 'hope' we get enough points on the board before it's too late.

2) The 3-1 home defeat to Liverpool at the weekend could never be described as a catalyst to some miraculous revival.

I'll be at Wigan and I'll support the team as always but I've seen absolutely nothing to make me think Ince can turn this situation around. Only hope remains.

[The Prof.]

Mick McCarthy - Possibly...

Alex McLeish - Doubt it...

Steve Coppell - Not a chance...

Dave Jones - Nope!

Neil Warnock - Nope!

Chris Coleman - Nope!

Paul Sturrock - Nope!

Paul Jewell - Maybe...

Glenn Roeder - Not a chance!

If the £5m we might be given to spend in January is borrowed from summers budget it will be a close run thing in the summer.

Remember we seem to be including wages in our transfer amounts so a decent loan in would take up a decent percentage of that £5m.

It's looking like we're selling to buy and there aint too much on display that would attract a big fee.

And then we might not get to spend that - we don't appear to have las summer.

[Manchester Blue]

Don't put words in my mouth Christian.

I have raised previously the peculiarity of Lee's announcement in comparison with the things Brad was saying to the press at the same time. Thus far no explanation has been given. If there is one I'd very much like to hear it.

Who on earth is putting words in your mouth? Either Friedel made a transfer request the day after Hughes left, as Lee said. Or he didn't and Lee is telling porkies. Seems pretty black and white to me. You seem happy to chuck stuff around but if anyone pulls you up you get all defensive.

[Blueandwhitemike]

I'd also like to say we have seen some top posts fom some BRFCS messageboard giants.

I think, mainly due to injuries, we don't have a great team to put out against Wigan but with a bit of luck and lots of graft we can win it if we play like we did against Liverpool or Portsmouth. The same goes for the Stoke game.

Obviously the manager has made mistakes but I believe in a couple of weeks when we get Dunn ( I thought he was gonna be a star for us this season ) and Grella ( Who I presume given the amount he cost and his reasonable pedigree must be at pretty decent ) and then in January when if we have only got 5 mil and we can find a pretty good one , doesn't have to be a world beater, we will have good first eleven. One with real quality, some creativity and pace ( from the new RW ).

I think the weak middle is responsible for lots of our problems, going forward and going back.

When this is sorted ( to a fair degree) I think our team will easily be as good as those from 8th to 17th who are all of a similarish standard.

If there is a game I coould go to the wigan is the one I have most wanted to be at since the league cup final.

C'mon rovers.

[brenmul]

I've been an avid reader of this website for many a season now and I feel now is the time to make my first post. I sent an email into John Williams after the Utd game last week saying enough was enough and I wanted Ince out and I also said I would never step on Ewood again whilst he was in charge (which was a lie). He called my bluff and invited me down to meet him and today I was at Ewood meeting John Williams ( I felt like a schoolboy again sat in front of the headteacher in detention). Anyway he was very honest to me and he commented that he does read this board as well as the official board and Telegraph board. He told me a few things some of which I promised I will keep to myself and after the meeting I'm firmly in the keep Ince camp. He mentioned that Paul is the most thorough manager we've had since John has been at the club. He mentioned about people saying that the club has no balls because they've not sacked Ince is ###### (and those are his exact words). Sacking Ince would be easy, keeping him on is having balls. He said he knows the 9 games we need to win is going to be hard especially as 4 are away at the top 4. He also said that Paul Ince ticked the most boxes in the search for Sparky's replacement, he said no one ticked all the boxes because Alex Ferguson never applied. He went on to tell me all about the Shearer and BFS talk. Joh Williams is giving 100% commitment to the club and I swear when he was talking about Jack Walker he was close to tears. He said ALL the players are behind Paul and I have doubt about that statement, so I say trust the club and they will do whatever they can to ensure our safety.

He also mentioned that at the start of the season Paul presented him his starting 11 for the season which was a 4-4-2 formation and yet so far he hasn't yet been able to play that team

[Manchester Blue]

Cheers for the info Brenmul and a good and interesting post.

I'd agree we;ve seen some really good posts today. Don't always agree with Den & Paul but both have made some good points and more importantly some positive ones. There does seem to be a good vibe going into this game and I just hope it's rewarded. Looking forward to it and catching up with everyone.

[Blueandwhitemike]

Fascinating and quite uplifting post brenmul, thanks

[roverfanuk]

Im sorry brenmul, i just dont believe you...

I don't believe Williams would call a random fan in to talk too during this current crisis...

Not only would it be very risky. I also doubt he would discuss Ince's plans for the squad with a fan, or as a businessmen risk telling anyone something that he would "have to keep to himself"...

Next you will be telling us he whipped out the clubs financial documents etc...

[T4E]

Who on earth is putting words in your mouth? Either Friedel made a transfer request the day after Hughes left, as Lee said. Or he didn't and Lee is telling porkies. Seems pretty black and white to me. You seem happy to chuck stuff around but if anyone pulls you up you get all defensive.

There you go doing it again.

I very much doubt Brad handed his transfer request to Lee Grooby, therefore someone must have told Lee that this had happened. Could it be that person was telling porkies? It's not for me to say - I would just like the question that I have posed answered.

I'm not chucking anything around, although no doubt you'll find something to say in response to this that attacks me again. Change the bloody record.

[brenmul]

Im sorry brenmul, i just dont believe you...

I don't believe Williams would call a random fan in to talk too during this current crisis...

To be honest I don't really care if you don't believe me, I've taken what I've read on these messageboards to heart, and until today I wanted Ince out. But I DID meet with John Williams today and I'm now backing him and Ince to get us out of this situation.

[Majiball]

I wonder how many other chairman would do that?

[brenmul]

I wonder how many other chairman would do that?

None!

[bellamy11]

Roverfanuk - John Williams is without doubt one of the most approachable men in his position in the entire game, which is one of the reasons he is perfect for this club. Having been welcomed by him before and having spoken to him before, I've no doubt that he would occasionally take the time to speak heart to heart with somebody so disillusioned.

[roverfanuk]

To be honest I don't really care if you don't believe me, I've taken what I've read on these messageboards to heart, and until today I wanted Ince out. But I DID meet with John Williams today and I'm now backing him and Ince to get us out of this situation.

Yes, and i met Russell T Davis today (as a avid Doctor Who fan!) and he told me who would be the 11th Doctor! He told me not to tell anyone though!!

Come on...

I tell you what, im not even going to argue this... If people want to believe that rubbish, then go right ahead!

I have no doubt Williams might talk to fans, but he would NOT talk about confidential club matters, especially as i said, in this current climate...

[brenmul]

Yes, and i met Russell T Davis today (as a avid Doctor Who fan!) and he told me who would be the 11th Doctor! He told me not to tell anyone though!!

Come on...

Dear Brendan

Rather than respond back by e-mail in detail please give my secretary a call on to arrange a mutually convenient time for us to sit down and discuss your views over a cup of tea.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours sincerely

John Williams

Chairman

I've edited the number to stop other people ringing him

[cn174]

Im sorry brenmul, i just dont believe you...

I don't believe Williams would call a random fan in to talk too during this current crisis...

Not only would it be very risky. I also doubt he would discuss Ince's plans for the squad with a fan, or as a businessmen risk telling anyone something that he would "have to keep to himself"...

Next you will be telling us he whipped out the clubs financial documents etc...

Having met Williams a couple of times, I do think he would take the time to talk to a 'random fan' if they so wanted to have a chat.

I believe that he even offered to meet up with Vinjay.

[roverfanuk]

As i said. Would talk to fans... Wouldnt talk about important confidential club matters... Anyone can fake a email...

Nope... Not during this current club crisis. For all he knows, you could be a reporter. Anything he would have been willing to say to you, he would have said to the media...

[philipl]

Im sorry brenmul, i just dont believe you...

I don't believe Williams would call a random fan in to talk too during this current crisis...

Not only would it be very risky. I also doubt he would discuss Ince's plans for the squad with a fan, or as a businessmen risk telling anyone something that he would "have to keep to himself"...

Next you will be telling us he whipped out the clubs financial documents etc...

Sorry roverfanuk.

Oh yes John Williams would do that and I fully believe brenmul's account.

That is a very unfair post.

[roverfanuk]

Just my opinion. I dont believe it. It's fine if you want to believe it, go ahead.

But it doesnt add up. Im not going to say anything more about it...

[philipl]

Just my opinion. I dont believe it. It's fine if you want to believe it, go ahead.

But it doesnt add up. Im not going to say anything more about it...

You should believe it because that is the sort of guy John Williams is and shows how passionate he is about our football club.

This is not a case of I don't believe it and I'm taking my bat and ball home, you are wrong in your assumption because I am not only certain the meeting happened, I am also certain JW gave brenmul a lot of time and answered his questions with total consideration and honesty.

[roverfanuk]

You should believe it because that is the sort of guy John Williams is and shows how passionate he is about our football club.

This is not a case of I don't believe it and I'm taking my bat and ball home, you are wrong in your assumption because I am not only certain the meeting happened, I am also certain JW gave brenmul a lot of time and answered his questions with total consideration and honesty.

Can we just leave it, you nor anyone else is going to make me believe that... He might have met John Williams, but to suggest he told him stuff about the club, and then make him promise not to tell anyone else is stupid?! Also, as a club chairman, it would be very unprofessional to disclose what Ince and he have discussed in private. Such as squad lineups and plans for the future!

I have no doubt that Williams is a nice fella, and he might have met some of the clubs fans, but i just don't believe it...

If he had said he had met Williams and had a chat with him, then fine, i could have gone for that.

But the fact he has gone from saying, i wanted Ince out (catagorically) to being persuaded by Williams that Ince is the best option for the club, via being told personal information, it is just, well silly...

As i said, believe what you will... Im going to reserve my right as a individual to not believe what that chap said...

[brenmul]

Can we just leave it, you nor anyone else is going to make me believe that... He might have met John Williams, but to suggest he told him stuff about the club, and then make him promise not to tell anyone else is stupid?! Also, as a club chairman, it would be very unprofessional to disclose what Ince and he have discussed in private. Such as squad lineups and plans for the future!

I have no doubt that Williams is a nice fella, and he might have met some of the clubs fans, but i just don't believe it...

If he had said he had met Williams and had a chat with him, then fine, i could have gone for that.

But the fact he has gone from saying, i wanted Ince out (catagorically) to being persuaded by Williams that Ince is the best option for the club, via being told personal information, it is just, well silly...

As i said, believe what you will... Im going to reserve my right as a individual to not believe what that chap said...

I think you've got the wrong end of what I'm saying. He told me stuff about Paul Ince none of us knew, about how much in depth research he goes, how much pro zone he uses ( much more than Hughes) about how much more knowledgeable he is from what we see on camera). The players are 100% behind him and I think we should be too. (only my personal opinion). Mr Willaims told me stuff about the interview process in the summer and the applicants we had and why they chose Ince and after listening to that, that is why Ince has now got my backing. He didn't go into any financial details that we already didn't know, he told me we desperatley need a buyer to survive in this league otherwise come August we start this all over again

[DingleBaiter]

History teaches us that to resolve the problem Ince has to be removed, a new manger along with new players HAVE to come in, if it means spending every penny then so be it, as this is not only the short term remedy but part of the long term startegy Rovers have no other route to go down .

Key is can Williams and co. find the right man after this debacle which has been a sorry, sorry episode in the clubs history.

As Michael Corleone says JAL,

"If anything in this life is certain, if history has taught us anything, it is that you can kill anyone"

A bit extreme perhaps, or is it? (based on some of the vitriol on here)

With so much hyperbole, rumour and counter-rumour there's a dearth of solid, incontrovertible information these last few days other than a bit of politicking by JW to get some wriggle-room. There's still more questions than answers, particularly regarding expectations of fans, and posters on here..

1. What happens if we win the Wigan game? What set of results would it take for Ince to remove the 'one game from the sack' monkey off his back?
2. Suppose (by some miracle), we hit form and go on a decent run up the table - will all the weak-spirited who dropped their reservations about Allardyce, then drop the Ince stuff - or stay resolute against him?
3. Suppose a new manager comes in and nothing changes?
4. Why on earth would Hughes come back? Why on earth would we want Souness back? - Never look back, never go back - or there's only one way it will end up