[Archived] Paul Ince

[cruz]

Why do 'fans' keep using Andrews as a stick with which to beat ince with? He's nowhere near our worst player

[Bobby G]

He is a liability. Maybe if he slotted into a 4-5-1 as the extra midfielder breaking into their box, or we were in a stronger position then it would make more sense. He gives the ball away ALOT in dangerous positions, he makes alot of rash tackles, quite alot of them high and dangerous, and is very lazy in his passes too.

Considering the money we paid for him its OK. Considering he isnt playing ahead of anyone better, thats still acceptable. I am sure Dunn wouldve been playing ahead of him all this time if fit.

On a sidenote, Danny Simpson says the players have been winding up Tugay by calling him gaffer after all the rumors of the last couple of days.

[cruz]

Does it not seem strange for a manager to go to the chairman and show him his starting 11?

People outside the north west never had the pleasure of watching the fly on the wall programme about Accrington Stanley. In the programme the manager and chairman had many many informal chats of that nature where they discussed things from starting line-ups to new lawn mowers for the groundsman with many meetings containing plenty of profanities. Stanley may be a smaller set-up but I beleive Rovers would be no different as a manager and chairman need to have a close and open relationship otherwise you end up with a Quinn/Keane childish sulk-fest.

I can easily see during one conversation Ince saying to JW the team he'd like to play if all players were fit, after all it is a very inmportant issue.

[LDRover]

Why do 'fans' keep using Andrews as a stick with which to beat ince with? He's nowhere near our worst player

Because he's not a player that any Premiership club with any ambition should buy.

[cruz]

He is a liability. Maybe if he slotted into a 4-5-1 as the extra midfielder breaking into their box, or we were in a stronger position then it would make more sense. He gives the ball away ALOT in dangerous positions, he makes alot of rash tackles, quite alot of them high and dangerous, and is very lazy in his passes too.

Considering the money we paid for him its OK. Considering he isnt playing ahead of anyone better, thats still acceptable. I am sure Dunn wouldve been playing ahead of him all this time if fit.

So in essence he's the Irish Vogel?

Maybe Andrews need to cause unrest in the squad and get sidelined for months then members on here will then consider him the modern day messiah just like the perenially useless Vogel

[Parsonblue]

So in essence he's the Irish Vogel?

Maybe Andrews need to cause unrest in the squad and get sidelined for months then members on here will then consider him the modern day messiah just like the perenially useless Vogel

When Andrews achieves what Vogel has achieved in his career you might be able to compare them. Vogel has 90 odd international caps and played on the World and European stages. Andrews has played on the Fourth Division stage and done very well at that level. The lad is an honest trier - of that there is no doubt. However, whether he has the ability to mix it with the international stars of most Premiership midfields is another matter. So far he has struggled when up against quality opposition.

[Hughesy]

So according to John Williams Paul Ince is 'thorough' as a manager.

So how does he explain the following -

Not finding a position for the big summer signing Villanueva

Not being able to identify and purchase a replacement for Bentley within the first 3 months of his tenure

The ostracising and subsequent reinstatement of Vogel

The signing of Fowler

Repeatedly playing Derbyshire on the wing

Our pathetic set pieces

Our lack of fitness

The decision to play Warnock in central midfield

The huge gap between the midfield and the forwards

The huge gap between the midfield and the defence

The midfield

The decision to rest Tugay prior to 3 games in quick succession...and then not selecting him for any of them

Keith Andrews

Playing Ryan Nelsen week in week out

and that's just for starters.

Falling out with Peter, Samba (Twice), Roberts, Vogel

Looking for a replacement for Friedel when he was happy

Not being able to find a combative midfielder.

Bringing Treacy on in Injury time against Liverpool

Being late for training most days - leaving knox to do much more than expected

[cruz]

he sends out his team of dinosaurs to coach premier league players in a Unibond league fashion - has them totally unprepared for matches, no system, no tactics and an utter shambles! .

Can you be kind as to post the proof you have to back up this "claim"?

I await your 'proof' with interest

[broadsword]

So according to John Williams Paul Ince is 'thorough' as a manager.

So how does he explain the following -

Not finding a position for the big summer signing Villanueva

Not being able to identify and purchase a replacement for Bentley within the first 3 months of his tenure

The ostracising and subsequent reinstatement of Vogel

The signing of Fowler

Repeatedly playing Derbyshire on the wing

Our pathetic set pieces

Our lack of fitness

The decision to play Warnock in central midfield

The huge gap between the midfield and the forwards

The huge gap between the midfield and the defence

The midfield

The decision to rest Tugay prior to 3 games in quick succession...and then not selecting him for any of them

Keith Andrews

Playing Ryan Nelsen week in week out

and that's just for starters.

Fair points, but that's on the assumption that Mr Williams meant "thorough" in the sense of "diligent" and/or "assidious".

He could have meant "thorough" as in "thoroughly inept"?

I have no doubts that Mr Williams met this chap, but there is an obvious conflict between what has been said, and our results. although I suppose you can be thorough, as in considering all aspects of the team preparation for a match, and get every one of those aspects wrong?

Anyways, hopefully I have been outrageously unfair to Paul, and this saturday will see us stuff Wigan out of sight, with attacking football of verve and elan. I get absolutely no pleasure from seeing us where we are, so I'm just praying I've been wrong all this time.

Perhaps we've been luring the rest of the Premiership into a false sense of security and step it up a few gears.

Can you be kind as to post the proof you have to back up this "claim"?

I await your 'proof' with interest

the proof is in the puddings?

[cruz]

the proof is in the puddings?

yes they are playing like puddings but that does not prove Ince and his team are not preparing them properly. Once they cross that white line all the hard work of the manager can go out the window through one stray pass from warnock.

Strange how nobody mocked Hughes' preparation when we had a dismall 12 match losing streak last season.

I am not pro-ince by the way but some of the guff pedaled as truth on here is ridiculous

[broadsword]

I was just trying to suss out the reasoning, hence the question mark.

did we really have a 12-match losing streak last season?

[LeftWinger]

Strange how nobody mocked Hughes' preparation when we had a dismall 12 match losing streak last season.

I am not pro-ince by the way but some of the guff pedaled as truth on here is ridiculous

I like the way you make up a bit of guff like Hughes' 12 match losing streak - and then call yourself ridiculous.

At a quick glance our longest run without a win last season was 5 games.

[Majiball]

I spent 30 minutes with John Williams today as well (along with Ewood Spark from this MB). We were buying a round at the Disabled Supporters Assoc Christmas do, and he came over to talk to us.

During the conversation, he made a genuine offer to meet face to face with a handful of the most critical, vociferous people from this messageboard.

It seems to me that you're offering yourself up as the first candidate. You'll have to pay your own fare from Brighton, but IMO it's high time you put your money where your mouth is.

PM me if you want to come and speak to Mr Williams face to face. And if you don't put up, then perhaps shut up??

Do it seriously, get a group together and go but let us all supply questions. Rovers never talk, hell most clubs keep there fans completely in the dark, its no wonder they react as they do.

If the club where to come out and re-enforce there position with some more info IE why he stood out a little more in-depth perhaps than he ticked some boxes perhaps some would be more understanding. We don't need the inner workings of the club just some re-assurance as always we know nothing other than what we see, and what I've watched all year is route one most of the time.

Alot of what I read on here is negative, but who could blame them, look at the knowledge we have to base our opinion on. Paul Ince meet the fans, KK had the balls to do it with Cole, your turn.

Tris I think its a good idea some from this board have a chat, and take it from there.

[cruz]

I like the way you make up a bit of guff like Hughes' 12 match losing streak - and then call yourself ridiculous.

So 12 was a bit presumtious it was in fact 1 win in 10 (6 points out of 30) between Nov 3rd and Dec 30th or 4 wins in 18 if you take the run a few weeks further (15 points out of 54)

[Riversider]

Brenmul, how about posting the email that you sent to JW.

[roverfanuk]

I was just trying to suss out the reasoning, hence the question mark.

did we really have a 12-match losing streak last season?

The longest period we went without winning last season was 5 games, 4 losses against West Ham, Wigan, Arsenal and Chelsea and a draw against Manchester City...

Including Cup games we conceed 59 goals in total last season, this season so far with barely half the campaign gone, we have conceeded 38 goals... (19 games gone, 22 still to play!)

Keep up the good work Paul, Well on our way to adding 25% more goals conceeded then last year...

[den]

Can we just leave it, you nor anyone else is going to make me believe that... He might have met John Williams, but to suggest he told him stuff about the club, and then make him promise not to tell anyone else is stupid?! Also, as a club chairman, it would be very unprofessional to disclose what Ince and he have discussed in private. Such as squad lineups and plans for the future!

John Williams has met hundreds of fans in this way over the years. I emailed about the sale of Duff to Chelsea. I got an invite to meet him and spent two hours in his office. Along with others, I've met him quite a few times on other occassions.

He is a very open person. Let's get this right though - while he obviously doesn't divulge any great secrets, there are things that he will tell you, whereby he will ask that you don't repeat it on a messageboard. That's how he works roverfanuk.

[DaveyB]

Falling out with Peter, Samba (Twice), Roberts, Vogel

You keep repeating this claim, but, as I've already asked, where is the proof that any of this has happened?

[Sysagent]

You keep repeating this claim, but, as I've already asked, where is the proof that any of this has happened?

You could ask this about the majority of content in this entire thread...

;-)

[roverfanuk]

John Williams has met hundreds of fans in this way over the years. I emailed about the sale of Duff to Chelsea. I got an invite to meet him and spent two hours in his office. Along with others, I've met him quite a few times on other occassions.

I never said he didnt...?

He is a very open person. Let's get this right though - while he obviously doesn't divulge any great secrets, there are things that he will tell you, whereby he will ask that you don't repeat it on a messageboard. That's how he works roverfanuk.

I'm sure he is. But i maintain that he would not discuss conversations about the team that he had in confidence with a fan who for all he knows could be a reporter!

All they need is for a Sun reporter to go in and say as a Blackburn fan, they are worried about the team, and the newspaper will have the clubs plans for the next year!

Also the way the chap structured and worded the email makes me wonder. He wanted Ince to go. Then after a convo with Williams, regardless of us being in the relegation zone, and not winning a match for 10 games, he still came out thinking Ince is the best man for the job...

For me, i think Ince is our Sammy Lee... Unfortunately, i think allot of you aren't going to realise this before it is too late...

[Paul]

I never saud he didnt...?

I'm sure he is. But i maintain that he would not discuss conversations about the team that he had in confidence with a fan who for all he knows could be a reporter!

All they need is for a Sun reporter to go in and say as a Blackburn fan, they are worried about the team, and the newspaper will have the clubs plans for the next year!

Also the way the chap structured and worded the email makes me wonder. He wanted Ince to go. Then after a convo with Williams, regardless of us being in the relegation zone, and not winning a match for 10 games, he still came out thinking Ince is the best man for the job...

For me, i think Ince is our Sammy Lee... Unfortunately, i think allot of you aren't going to realise this before it is too late...

Without going into details and boring the pants off everyone can I just add my name to the list of people telling you you're wrong. I've met JW several times, he does and will discuss the football aspects of BRFC. He also makes it clear if you repeat something he tells you in confidence he will flatly deny it.

Both John Williams and Tom Finn are very open and ready to discuss virtually anything on a one to one basis. It's what makes them so good for Rovers.

[roverfanuk]

Without going into details and boring the pants off everyone can I just add my name to the list of people telling you you're wrong. I've met JW several times, he does and will discuss the football aspects of BRFC. He also makes it clear if you repeat something he tells you in confidence he will flatly deny it.

Both John Williams and Tom Finn are very open and ready to discuss virtually anything on a one to one basis. It's what makes them so good for Rovers.

If thats true;

a) no wonder the story about asking Sunderland about Big Sam is true

no wonder the club are in such trouble

c) no wonder Williams and the board have such blind faith in Ince!

Some footballing matters should be kept between the chairman and the manager. But hey, why not discuss it to any Tom, Dick or Harry. I'm sure it couldnt cause anymore damage to the club then has already been done in the last year!

[G Somerset Rover]

Although it's now certain that Ince will still be in charge for the Wigan game I'm still completely at a loss to see why.

There's not one positive to look at as many others have said and yet more and more people are coming out and backing Ince to the hill.

Also I do belive that this chap has met with JW, but like Roverfanuk I don't see how he's turned from being Ince's biggest critic into his biggest fan in the space of just one meeting. Maybe JW could convince me into the reasoning for giving Ince one more match, but there's no way I'd come out of the meeting belieiving that he's the best man for the job. One look at the table would have me feeling sane straight away.

[mac]

Maybe JW could convince me into the reasoning for giving Ince one more match, but there's no way I'd come out of the meeting belieiving that he's the best man for the job.

If JW can do that why can't he find a buyer for the club??

He must be able to sell ice to eskimos !

INCE OUT

[RibbleValleyRover]

Simpson calls for Unity