[Archived] Paul Ince

[Majiball]

Well to quote on quote the missus "its good to have you back", yesterday ruined my day. Most of last night was spent trying absorb what I had witnessed and make some sense of it.

Yesterday really sums it all up at the moment, hope in the first half, doom in the second. Ince has brought positives to the club, we're blooding more kids, we are albeit at times dominating teams. Yesterdays Jekyll and Hyde performance has caused concern, what on earth was said at half-time? I can only assume one of two things 1. a rollicking 2. no bodies listening. I've seen teams go from high to low over half time before, and had the privilege of being in the dressing room for the chats on a few occasions. Its normally the first one.

Its worrying and while I'm not ready to pull the trigger I'm all for loading the bullets. We have the quality to get out of this situation, we do regardless of what some may think. Yesterday knocked us all down, its safe to assume if it hit us like that then it hit JW as well. I wonder what he's thinking? Its not the first time we've been in this position under his stewardship, he knows the signs.

The replacement names being mentioned on here fill me with as much inspiration as they did in the summer, and the options have decreased since then. I hope JW is putting some feelers out today. `Ince needs to be told its make or break, sacking him today will do us no good. Give him a time scale ( a short one), end of the month will do, use the time to cover your ass.

Our criteria for choosing a manager have changed now and not for the better. Big Sam's name is being banded around on here, and it fills me with dread remember a manager is not just for Christmas. The board are bringing us a new year pressie of 3M it may well be required soon (its funny how the amount they are putting in probably covers Inces 3year deal). We have money in the bank, and we have (it maybe required) an asset that could raise considerably more in RSC should the need arise. So should the need arise I see no need to shop in the bargain basement for a manager, the Russian league ends soon! there's two alone in that league I'd be happy to see here.

If the worst happens I also wonder what the board will do? What would the club be worth if we drop down? How much money will they have to pump in to keep us going? thankfully (well not really) they've been through our brief escape from the premiership ( I'm sure there wallets remember).

Tottenham have shown what a change can bring but we have to remember they got Harry, he a bit special when it comes to escaping relegation. The whole club from fans to players to the food servers (they need this badly) need inspiration, fans are dropping like flies. Lets hope we get some in the next few games, regardless of its form.

[thenodrog]

Just a point but why have we two threads open on the same topic?

[Exiled in Toronto]

I've been in the camp of give the guy (any guy who gets appointed) a chance to show what he can do. It's the middle of Nov and although excuses can be made, after 16 games they are just that.

I have never been a fan of 'give him x more games' as anything can happen results-wise in 2 or 3 games and therefore should not be a criterion for a decision that is about the medium to long term, ie 2/3rds of a season and beyond.

As has been pointed out, sacking Ince is not a solution, what matters is who is appointed, by when, with what resources. Ince Out is a pointless poll; it should be Who? When? How much? If the Chairman isn't already beavering away on answering those then he's the one to be fired.

When I am told that Williams was 2 games from sacking Souness, that to me says he hadn't the balls to do it as 2 scabby wins would have kept him in the job when things were clearly spiraling out of control. I don't think he has grown any since then. All he has grown is ego and self importance which will only delay further any decisive action.

To salvage a good season we need PL scrapping experience, now and with whatever it will cost. But I just cannot see Williams consuming the vast quantity of humble pie required for BFS, so I'll bet we are on the good ship Ince for a while longer yet.

[gillibrand]

Yes two is no were near enough.

[Amo]

People ask what happened at half-time. Maybe Sunderland actually had a go and proved Ince's selection was wrong? Just a thought.

[CrazyIvan]

I don't want BFS near the club. Part of me says yeah, he can give us the fight to stay up. The other much bigger and wider looking part says what would he do afterwards? Would we start looking like Notlob and lumping balls up like yesterdays godawful display? Would our books like like a comedy sketch like Boltons? Would we see a proliferation of overpaid 'experts' in everything from aromatherapy to sports science? Where would our better players end up? That to me is why BFS is not the answer. I'm not calling for Ince's head yet because I honestly think he should be given a little more time to turn this mess around. Not much more though and patience is running out.

What Ince said in the interview I read on the BBC's website summed up exactly how I feel. If he threw a few tea cups in the dressing room then that's a good thing in my book, it shows he has passion and the will to fight. Anybody talking about that 'losing the dressing room' needs to take a look at Fergie as he has done that a lot over the years and he has never lost the dressing room over it. A few players mind you...

My wife said she had never seen me so down after a game yesterday (we've been together 2 + years). I think that probably goes for a lot of people on here in recent memory. It's not a nice feeling after the game knowing that you watched your team throw three points away and consign themselves to the bottom three so abjectly. What happened at half time? Draw your own conclusions about that one...

Time is running out.

[thenodrog]

People ask what happened at half-time. Maybe Sunderland actually had a go and proved Ince's selection was wrong? Just a thought.

I don't think Keane could believe that we left our right side so exposed. They went at poor Simpson like terriers at a rat in the opening exchanges of the 2nd half. It's not a bad tactic and its certainly not rocket science level with the quality of Cisse and Jones waiting to get on the end of any crosses that come thier way is it?

[gillibrand]

Bolton Wanderers of old could give the big boys a good game, and I would prefer as some people on here refer to boring or long ball or whatever other dribble they say to sinking down the lower divisions, with no money no good players no good manager would want to know us then

[Claytons Left Boot]

We have the quality to get out of this situation, we do regardless of what some may think......

We do, but not with Paul Ince in charge.

[Amo]

Since Ince's days could be numbered, can someone draw up a list of all suitable and available managers home and away?

[Alan75]

Just a point but why have we two threads open on the same topic?

Ok what I said in the other thread

[RevidgeBlue]

It's all very well saying "give him two more games" knowing full well that the next two games are very tricky looking away fixtures - followed by Liverpool at home. I don't think it's fair to judge him on that basis at all.

I think he needs to be given a chance to turn it round over at least five more games, if there is no sign of improvement at that point I would probably be looking to change things round.

Ultimately though I think changing the manager will be a fairly superficial exercise unless the owners are finally prepared to back whoever is in charge in January with substantial funding by our standards. (20m or so pre sales)

That's where the real problem lies.

[1864roverite]

Rev

if only you saw what we saw yesterday mate, I am certain you would disagree

[Paul Mellelieu]

Why don't we open this again for some members to reflect on why they never ended up with a career in HR. It makes very interesting reading today.

http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/index.php?showto...18968&st=40

Lets look on the bright side, at least now we can dispense with the myth that some of the more deluded hold that somehow Paul Ince will have us playing more attractive football!

OK, I've bitten.

Overplaying your hand there. As you know, there were many voices either against or not very supportive of Ince's appointment. The difference was that you spat the dummy and insisted you wouldn't be at EP - being such a man of principle, you backed down within a day or two I seem to remember. And only you, and a couple of others thought it necessary to use base abuse of Ince.

[Presty On Tour]

Since Ince's days could be numbered, can someone draw up a list of all suitable and available managers home and away?

Martinez

Keegan

Grant

Shearer

Curbs

Fat Sam

Gullit

Mancini

Tugay - player manager?

Boothroyd

Ramos

Vialli

King Kenny

Tony Parkes

[Majiball]

As has been pointed out, sacking Ince is not a solution, what matters is who is appointed, by when, with what resources.

And there in lies the dilemma!

Does anyone on here really think BFS is the answer then your wrong. He may have relegation experience and have worked in similiar circumstances to those at Rovers, but he will split the fans more than Ince ever did. Curbishley, does not inspire nor will it get bums back on seats. There are some good eggs out there, Brown at Hull has impressed. Would Advocaat leave Zenith? Laudrup only has 14 months left on his contract. Deschamps? Christ I'd even take Keegan over BFS.

If Ince cannot pull it round we have to think big. If that means the board dipping in they'll have too, relegation will cost then even more. I'm sure I've read it cost them over 20M last time, spending 5-10M to avoid it on top of what we already have makes sense.

[andrew92]

Grant - would love it but wont happen in a million years.

Shearer - cant afford another one like ince, but wouldent surprise me.

Curbs - More realistic, good option.

Fat Sam - still no thanks.

Mancini - JW wouldent have the bottle to go for someone like that.

Tugay - player manager? - would love it, but not sure it would be the right option.

Boothroyd - no i dnt think he be good enough either.

Ramos - YES, one of the best options, just give him the money and ley him deciede the team, unlike spuds did.

Vialli - nope

King Kenny - that would be a story and a half, but nope

Tony Parkes - again would be a great story but no again.

[Bobby G]

Shearer said no when we were in pre-season. We wouldnt even approach him.

Wouldnt go for Curbs as I dont think he has the motivational skills to dig us out. He is too reserved.

Stop thinking of lavish foreign names too...

Only Fat Sam makes sense in my book from whatever angle I look at it...

[Presty On Tour]

I wouldn't mind Kevin Keegan.

I know he's very Newcasle enclined but he has managed other clubs with success.

He Hates Man Utd, can motivate a depleted team, has years of experience and is very handy in the transfer market with no interference.

He would probably go back to Newcastle in the end but I think he would be a top option.

[andrew92]

Shearer said no when we were in pre-season. We wouldnt even approach him.

Wouldnt go for Curbs as I dont think he has the motivational skills to dig us out. He is too reserved.

Stop thinking of lavish foreign names too...

Only Fat Sam makes sense in my book from whatever angle I look at it...

well curbs got west ham out of it, he would be a better option than BFS, but i still think that we will have ice for another few months yet as when do we ever make a decision and sack people, eg sounes.

[Majiball]

Martinez no different to what we have

Keegan children should not be put in charge of adults

Grant I think I could have done well with Chelsea as well

Shearer had his chance

Curbs weren't West ham going down

Fat Sam It'll be like watching tennis

Gullit not the best track record in the prem

Mancini yes definitely but realistically

Tugay - player manager? no qualifications

Boothroyd 12 months ago yes

Ramos would rather keep Ince

Vialli out of the game too long

King Kenny

Tony Parkes

the options are just not there. I would add Brown, Laudrup, Advocaat, Deschamps, Aguirre (ath Madrid manager, could be out of job soon), Fatih Terim, Strachan. We can't go shopping in pound stretcher for a new manager. We have to galvanise the whole club and none of the names above will do that or consider us (Mancini).

Present time keep Ince, but start looking at alternatives. If he goes we can't afford to pratt around for two weeks plus while we cherry pick the next man. We need to be prepared.

Curiously when Sourness went can anyone remember how long it took to appoint Hughes. I'm curious to know as if the board where two games from binning him, surely they where looking at possible replacements and had sounded one or two out?

[FourLaneBlue]

My choice for Rovers in the summer was BFS and I believed it was a big gamble to go for Ince. However when he was appointed I put that to one side to give him a chance...yet he has failed spectacularly. I have been waiting and waiting for Ince to impress and show something but his methods are a joke. Unfortunately for him he was on a hiding to nothing taking over from a successful manager in Hughes. The problem is that Ince could have something in him to be a good manager someday but he needed to surround himself with an excellent backroom staff. Instead we have Ray Mathias as assistant manager and a badly needed defensive coach who was too busy commentating on another match Saturday afternoon to be at the game. That is just rank amateurism. We are a premier league club yet have a coach who is too busy to attend our games? For the good of the club Ince really has to go.

Supporting a club is about wanting the best for it and not just blindly supporting any employee of the club. In the best interests of the club we need a change now. I hoped the solutions to our problems would come in the January transfer window but we do not have the time.

Does anyone on here really think BFS is the answer then your wrong. He may have relegation experience and have worked in similiar circumstances to those at Rovers, but he will split the fans more than Ince ever did.

No he will not split the fans so much anymore. In the summer it would have been a divisive signing it is true but Ince´s short reign has taken the sting out of it. Now I suspect many of those initially set against BFS would rather have anyone than Ince.

Get in BFS. While he carries a lot of baggage and it might not be pretty it is the natural choice.

[RibbleValleyRover]

There are 7 points between 6th and where we are in 18th place.

A win against Spurs, could take us back into the top half. Spurs may be scoring quite a few goals, but they have had some lucky wins under Redknapp and their defensive problems are still there.

If the gap stays tight between the top half and the bottom then i think Ince may get until January. If teams start to pull away then i think he has a few games left.

[Bobby G]

Yes but even if we beat Spurs, there is nothing consistent in our team to suggest that we will move up and up and up.

One win just like the league cup against Sunderland doesnt over-ride the past month to be frank.

[RevidgeBlue]

I thought the correct timescale to judge Ince on was about fifteen games and it is starting to look as though his appointment might be an extremely bold gamble which didn't pay off.

Whilst he has been unfortunate in some respects, results haven't been good enough recently and whilst I would give him a bit more time, (maybe five or six games) ultimately he has to live or die by those results.