[Archived] Paul Ince

[MCMC1875]

what is ? me and jan singing together or jim iley( he says with a cold sweat.....)

I think even you and Jan could do a better job than this shower!

[ABBEY]

i dont think jan would sing in the shower with me hahahaha im game lol

[Eddie]

So, rog, what you're saying is that the position we're in is on a par with:

Souness's last full season- when he was a complete numpty

The season Hughes took over when we didn't even HAVE a striker until Hughes bought them in January

The terribly nice, but utterly useless Harford- who got sacked; and

The relegation season

Oh well, that makes me feel SO much better. Ince is clearly a genius. Make him pope!

* for the stupid* - he's just proved what he was trying to disprove.

In a couple of months time we'll be relegated.

For what it's worth- the majority of the sane (ie those who want him gone) and are vocal about it, are also those who realised that Souness' time was up. You really need to listen to us.

To answer your first part:

I don't think that at the moment our current squad is that much better than the one Hughes took charge of. We have two strikers who are head and shoulders above the best of what we had then, but our central midfield without a fit Dunn or Reid is just about as good, possibly even worse. pedersen is at the same level that it was at and we don't have a genuine right winger. Our goalkeeper is not as good as we had at that moment in time and our centre backs are probably slightly better.

I was wrong about Souness, but I've never denied that. I still feel I was right about Ince. I also was in the minority by being totally against Ince, but now isn't the time for anyone to pull out an "I told you so".

We won't be relegated by January, very few teams are actually down and out by January and we won't join that exclusive club.

[ABBEY]

To answer your first part:

I don't think that at the moment our current squad is that much better than the one Hughes took charge of. We have two strikers who are head and shoulders above the best of what we had then, but our central midfield without a fit Dunn or Reid is just about as good, possibly even worse. pedersen is at the same level that it was at and we don't have a genuine right winger. Our goalkeeper is not as good as we had at that moment in time and our centre backs are probably slightly better.

I was wrong about Souness, but I've never denied that. I still feel I was right about Ince. I also was in the minority by being totally against Ince, but now isn't the time for anyone to pull out an "I told you so".

We won't be relegated by January, very few teams are actually down and out by January and we won't join that exclusive club.

MOST TEAMS WHO ARE BOTTOM IN JAN ARE RELEGATED ::::::::FACT

you was wrong about hughes too...bloody hell you and the flooppy one wanted him sacking after 5 or 6 games into the season.

[Amo]

Ince is so obviously out of his depth it's untrue. It's not just what's happening on the pitch but also from the way he comports himself. He talks a load of tosh after his interviews, trying to fool everyone that we're playing well when our form is ugly. I don't call a few pretty triangles in the centre-circle equating to good football. Good football has an end product, a strategy, and organisation.

Also, Ince is always spitting his dummy out. He complains about everything like a little kid who can't handle it with the big boys. He doesn't like clubs wanting his players, he doesn't like working on the shoestring, he doesn't like the top four, he doesn't like internationals. You took the job, mate. You know the Premiership is a demanding place. I think Paul Ince still has his players head on and can't adapt to the world of top-level management.

[philipl]

To answer your first part:

I don't think that at the moment our current squad is that much better than the one Hughes took charge of. We have two strikers who are head and shoulders above the best of what we had then, but our central midfield without a fit Dunn or Reid is just about as good, possibly even worse. pedersen is at the same level that it was at and we don't have a genuine right winger. Our goalkeeper is not as good as we had at that moment in time and our centre backs are probably slightly better.

I was wrong about Souness, but I've never denied that. I still feel I was right about Ince. I also was in the minority by being totally against Ince, but now isn't the time for anyone to pull out an "I told you so".

We won't be relegated by January, very few teams are actually down and out by January and we won't join that exclusive club.

Eddie, Ince had all the dosh he needed to set those things right in the summer.

He has a perfectly capable ex PSV and AC central midfielder he has chosen to send to purgatory.

The guy is rotating the players more than Rafa Benitez ever did and has all the personal presence of an inebriated gnat. There is a very small percentage chance of Ince digging us out of this relegation hole which we are currently in.

[Eddie]

MOST TEAMS WHO ARE BOTTOM IN JAN ARE RELEGATED ::::::::FACT

you was wrong about hughes too...bloody hell you and the flooppy one wanted him sacking after 5 or 6 games into the season.

No, that time was just Flopsy. I got very worried a couple of seasons ago up until that win at Reading (very similar position to the one that we are in now) and I do remember them taking the lead and thinking that should be it for him).

I thought that the second half of last season was pretty terrible and that him leaving us was a blessing in disguise. Obviously it required that we appoint someone decent. Ince could still be that man, but only time will tell.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

1) We create a reasonable number of chances every game, enough that if our strikers hit form (which at least one of them should at some point) that we will score more goals.

2) Nelsen looks better and if we can get a settled back four then I think we can stop looking so bad at the back, although for me that means Warnock has to go back to left-back.

3) We've been somewhat rocked by injuries and players missing over the past few weeks, meaning that we haven't been put out the same 11 for a run of games. Hopefully that will change and we'll be able to get a run of 10(ish) games with pretty much the same team, which should help.

4) Our own poor form has been combined with a relatively tough schedule to start with, which has meant that a lot of "easier" games have become high pressure ones. Now I would hope that this hasn't been a factor with the team, but I do feel it contribrutes to the fans perception of how things are going. This is why over the next few weeks I think things could improve quite a bit as the schedule doesn't look as bad.

I could be wrong, you never know. I was wrong when I didn't want to get rid of Souness (at least I assume he wouldn't have turned it around). Maybe I was wrong about things going stale under Hughes, but I do feel that some of what we are seeing is simply a continuation of that. Ince wasn't the man for the job for me, as I have said before, but he deserves more time than this. If we get rid of him now then we will simply be making the same mistakes that Spurs, Newcastle and dozens of other clubs regularly make. Now is a time to give the players and management our full support and not blink. If things still look bad in a couple of months then that will be when I would get rid, but for now he deserves time.

In reply to your points:-

1. We are not creating many chances from open play. Set pieces are our main point of attack at present.

2. Nelson is still too slow. As a result the defence is dropping further back and as a result the gap between defence and midfield is widening.

3. Ince has changed teams even when he has not needed to. Some players have not played in the same position in two consecutive games. If he has had too many injuries to deal with them why add to the disruption by making other changes?

4. The tough schedule is not an excuse like Ince has tried to made out. If his team had applied themselves like Hughes' team had then maybe things wouldn't be as bad.

It is time to give players our support but until Ince shows he has learned from his mistakes then the grim reaper will be hovering around Ince and more importantly the Rovers.

[LDRover]

1) We create a reasonable number of chances every game, enough that if our strikers hit form (which at least one of them should at some point) that we will score more goals.

2) Nelsen looks better and if we can get a settled back four then I think we can stop looking so bad at the back, although for me that means Warnock has to go back to left-back.

3) We've been somewhat rocked by injuries and players missing over the past few weeks, meaning that we haven't been put out the same 11 for a run of games. Hopefully that will change and we'll be able to get a run of 10(ish) games with pretty much the same team, which should help.

4) Our own poor form has been combined with a relatively tough schedule to start with, which has meant that a lot of "easier" games have become high pressure ones. Now I would hope that this hasn't been a factor with the team, but I do feel it contribrutes to the fans perception of how things are going. This is why over the next few weeks I think things could improve quite a bit as the schedule doesn't look as bad.

I could be wrong, you never know. I was wrong when I didn't want to get rid of Souness (at least I assume he wouldn't have turned it around). Maybe I was wrong about things going stale under Hughes, but I do feel that some of what we are seeing is simply a continuation of that. Ince wasn't the man for the job for me, as I have said before, but he deserves more time than this. If we get rid of him now then we will simply be making the same mistakes that Spurs, Newcastle and dozens of other clubs regularly make. Now is a time to give the players and management our full support and not blink. If things still look bad in a couple of months then that will be when I would get rid, but for now he deserves time.

Eddie how can you say it's been a tough schedule to start with? We've played Hull, Fulham, Boro and Sunderland at home - would they not be some of the 'easier' games? You'd certainly hope for more than 5 points from them anayway. We may have played all but one of the 'Big 4' but never looked like gaining a point from them, let's not forget the easier schedule you talk about is followed by trips away to all the big 4, effectively leaving us with 20 games to get the points we need.

There's too many 'ifs' and 'hopefullys' strewn around your post too, almost like you're trying to convince yourself. If (oops there I go) Nelsen looks back to his best how do you explain the goals against column?

We create a reasonable amount of chances? As has been said before, set pieces mainly, and if slinging the ball into the box counts I'm with you. From open play we're pony and we can't open teams up because we've no pace in the side to stretch them. In fact in the last couple of games we've turned to route one and abandoned the apparent free flowing football of earlier in the season. Eddie - it's getting worse every game believe me!!

If there was a reason for optimism I'd cling to it and shout it from the rooftops, there isn't and I wish to God there was. The last thing any of us want is to stare relegation in the face as we are now.

The manager has to go before it's too late.

[Exiled in Toronto]

You really need to listen to us.

Smugness is not an attractive virtue, even more so when it is unwarranted. If people had listened to you about Souness, he wouldn't have been appointed in the first place to lead us to promotion and win us our first major cup for nearly 80 years.

[broadsword]

2) Nelsen looks better and if we can get a settled back four then I think we can stop looking so bad at the back, although for me that means Warnock has to go back to left-back.

3) We've been somewhat rocked by injuries and players missing over the past few weeks, meaning that we haven't been put out the same 11 for a run of games. Hopefully that will change and we'll be able to get a run of 10(ish) games with pretty much the same team, which should help.

2) Does he?! looks bobbins to me.

3) Yeah and whose piddlign fault is it we've had injuries? I think we've had so many you can't put it down to sheer chance, something is going wrong in training. In actualy fact, what the bloody hell *are* they doing in training?

Eddie, we haven't got time to pi55-ball about, this man is out of his depth. To my mind we can't even wait another game just in case he drinks his milk and turns into Sir Alex Fungicide overnight. THE LONGER IT GOES ON THE WORSE IT GETS, GET SHOT NOW!

He's not the whole problem, but he sure as heck ain't making things better. We haven't got the luxury of giving him time to learn on the job, we have to demerde, AND DO IT NOW!

And we need a Blue Peter telethon buy a brick (don't employ one) Rovers buy some decent players appeal. just 5 pounds can keep Robbie Fowler in crisps for a week and out of the team. Send whatever you can, it makes a difference, cos no other bugger is getting their wallet out.

[1864roverite]

We won't be relegated by January, very few teams are actually down and out by January and we won't join that exclusive club.

You obviously havent been watching how Rovers are currently approaching games Eddie.

I will remind you

Fulham lucky to win 1-0

Boro lucky to get a draw

Chelsea lucky the weather was pish

Spurs - simply awful

sunderland - awful after failing to score more than one goal in a one sided first half

Bolton - missed chance ws the only positive from Roberts

Arsenal - walkover

manure - not even in it

Thats a summary

we wont win at Portsmouth

we wont beat Liverpool

on current form and with the way Rovers are playing we wont beat Wigan, Stoke or Man City, we wont beat Fulham or Newacastle or Sunderland in the games to come.

You see us FANS know the teams shortfalls whereas the management DONT.

Rovers are currently on a one way ticket down. No stops and and no passengers getting on. its all the way down from now UNLESS someone rids the club of Ince and his idiotic and poor backroom staff

[cn_barlow]

its getting to the stage now that i almost hope we lose so he's a step nearer the exit.

not a good state of mind for a fan to have!!

[CrazyIvan]

In a couple of months time we'll be relegated.

For what it's worth- the majority of the sane (ie those who want him gone) and are vocal about it, are also those who realised that Souness' time was up. You really need to listen to us.

It'll be interesting to come back to these words in a few months.

"The majority of the sane..." hmm... Interesting way of putting your arguments there. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is insane by definition. Also anyone not listening to you must therefore be in the same camp. Funny how you REALLY did not want Souness as manager and you were very vocal about it IIRC and he did a decent job. Souness time was up as soon as he moved to Rangers as far as you were concerned... Maybe you should avoid mentioning him when trying this argument.

Ince's time is running out. Three games left to turn it around.

[John]

Whilst I am not happy, part of me thinks Ince needs to be given more time and we are being too harsh??

Then the more I think about it, I just cannot see us picking up points as we have flattered to deceive all season.

[rog of the rovers]

Cn Barlow!!!!

If you dont want to support Ince then don't, but at least get behind the team. I cant actually believe people take a morsil of happiness by the team losing because it means Ince will get the sack!

I thought this was a message board for Rovers FANS??

Am I wrong?

[cn_barlow]

Cn Barlow!!!!

If you dont want to support Ince then don't, but at least get behind the team. I cant actually believe people take a morsil of happiness by the team losing because it means Ince will get the sack!

I thought this was a message board for Rovers FANS??

Am I wrong?

"almost"

im not there yet...

[rog of the rovers]

When will you be?

I'm still perplexed

[cn_barlow]

i never said it made me happy.

at the end of the day, if a few bad results now lead to the change being made and Rovers staying in this division then i can live with it because it is for the good of the club.

[gumboots]

i never said it made me happy.

at the end of the day, if a few bad results now lead to the change being made and Rovers staying in this division then i can live with it because it is for the good of the club.

If I could see where the next proper goal from open play scored by a striker from a chance created by a midfielder or his strike partner was going to come from, I'd worry far less. Sides that don't score don't win. It doesn't matter if you think we are creating chances,; we are not taking them. Striking is about confidence and our strikers don't have any and nor have most of the est of them. I've defended Ince's right to a chance against tjose who I felt were judging him unfairly, but in the end performances and results combined don't lie. We are in big trouble and cannot leave it till Christmas or whenever. If we're going to change manager, it needs to be in the process of being sorted now. Then even if we leave Ince in place for the next couple of games we won't have a long time managerless. We can't afford to go on losing and we can't afford to be without a manager for more than a game or so. The Christmas period and the January window are too important.

[Ianrally]

In reply to your points:-

1. We are not creating many chances from open play. Set pieces are our main point of attack at present.

2. Nelson is still too slow. As a result the defence is dropping further back and as a result the gap between defence and midfield is widening.

3. Ince has changed teams even when he has not needed to. Some players have not played in the same position in two consecutive games. If he has had too many injuries to deal with them why add to the disruption by making other changes?

4. The tough schedule is not an excuse like Ince has tried to made out. If his team had applied themselves like Hughes' team had then maybe things wouldn't be as bad.

It is time to give players our support but until Ince shows he has learned from his mistakes then the grim reaper will be hovering around Ince and more importantly the Rovers.

From the points raised, DSD4ever must sit close to me. I could not agree more.

The Admiral is nowhere near the player he was and I always get the feeling that he is somewhat of a weak link in what has become a poor back four generally.

The team changes that Ince continues to make are not all because of injury and smack of tinkering for the only reason that he does not know what to do next. Leaving Tugay on the bench to come on for the last 15 minutes is futile in my book. Of course he cannot play too many full length games now, but it would make more sense to me to have him on at the start and take him off later.

The tough schedule makes a mockery of trying to get into European competitions or indeed wanting to progress in domestic cups. Using that as an excuse just sends out the wrong message totally.

Some of the decisions that have been made by Ince seem to me to have started a rot in the camp. The likes of Santa Cruz and to some extent Warnock don't seem to give me the impression that they want to play for the manager.

As a Rover for more than 50 years I have seen situations like this before, and I dont see any way out of this mess other that to get rid of Ince and his bunch of has-been (or never were) backroom staff now.

[MCMC1875]

He has a perfectly capable ex PSV and AC central midfielder he has chosen to send to purgatory.

Why is this?

[Wild Irish Rover]

The writing is definitely on the wall.

"If you hire 2nd Division Thinking as Managers, Play 2nd Division football - there can only be ONE place that the club is heading..." Nuff said..

[leftfooter]

3) We've been somewhat rocked by injuries and players missing over the past few weeks, meaning that we haven't been put out the same 11 for a run of games. Hopefully that will change and we'll be able to get a run of 10(ish) games with pretty much the same team, which should help.

The injury issue is a fallacy - on both sides.

1. Man City under Hughes has suffered as many, if not more injuries than we have under Ince. No one would question Hughes's training methods. There are plenty legitimate reasons to criticise Ince: naive tactics, inept team selection and his unwillingness to accept responsibility spring immediately to mind. The injury situation is not one of them and its lazy thinking to continuously use this as a stick to beat Ince with.

2. All clubs have injuries and our injury list is currently bettered only by Aston Villa and Bolton. It's therefore lame of Ince and Eddie to keep hawking this around as an excuse. The more often you repeat the same idiotic mantra, the more it becomes accepted as a fact. It grates as much as his mindless bleating about midweek internationals and the club's lack of finances.

[jny]

The guy clearly doesnt know about tactics (example-yesterday mokonea wasnt performing so why keep him on when we could have had Tugay or 'Pineapple' on)

Another thing thats really annoying me also is that he keeps on making out we've been outstandin or unlucky (well we have been in signing him as our manager)