[Archived] Paul Ince

[Rovermatt]

We can't win with the press as they all want to see rovers fail, when we sack Ince just watch all the bad press we'll get saying we didn't give him a chance bla bla, i can see Ian Wright slating the club in his column. Not our fault we ended up with John Barnes 2

Oh no, Ian Wright! In his column! How will we manage?!

But, JW must have seen something in the guy to make what was then, and still is, a brave appointment over the more experienced candidates.

A cheap option was probably most attractive to the unambitious junta currently running the club.

[Claytons Left Boot]

A couple of, dare I say, insightful posts on Rovers' plight. Feel free to agree/disagree

Rovers in crisis!

Negative Ince

Two very good pieces, especially the Chris Stanton one. The same points have been written on here for some time.

These two can see it, most of us can see it, unfortunately the manager can't.

[jim mk2]

I really don't understand where the author is coming from with that ridiculous article, slagging Ince off in one breath, but is he saying in the next that like Benitez, Ince will come good eventually and we should stick by him?

Plus there is no correlation at all between Ince and Barnes. Barnes had no managerial experience at all before going to Celtic. Ince had done well in two different managerial positions.

And as there has been no suggestion whatsoever that Ince's coaching badges are not going entirely to plan, I sincerely hope his Solicitors have clocked the "bunking off coaching courses" comment.

You're missing the point of the piece in that English football has this strange notion that top players will automatically become top managers and are given big managerial jobs too early in their careers for which they have no experience and for which their only qualification is that they were a big name in their playing days.

Ince wasn't ready to manage Rovers (and neither was Hughes IMO albeit that particular gamble paid off) and should never have been considered for the job.

[Blackburn Ender]

That's a fair point, Jim.

But who would you have appointed with the necessary experience?

And what happens when the experienced manager fails, as so often they do?

Not saying you're wrong and someone like Allardyce, if brought in now, would steady the ship and almost certainly take up to mid-table or better.

But we go back to why so many supporters, me included, didn't want Big Sam in the first place.

We wanted excitement and good football, not percentage football.

[gumboots]

That's a fair point, Jim.

But who would you have appointed with the necessary experience?

And what happens when the experienced manager fails, as so often they do?

Not saying you're wrong and someone like Allardyce, if brought in now, would steady the ship and almost certainly take up to mid-table or better.

But we go back to why so many supporters, me included, didn't want Big Sam in the first place.

We wanted excitement and good football, not percentage football.

I wanted to go to ewood with an expectation of a win. Not necessarily a certainty, but the feeling that most games you had a better than even chance of winning and therefore, barring accidents, you would. It happened at spells during Hughes's reign and I wanted to get back to it.

[roversmum]

I've forgotten what it feels like, going to watch Rovers with the expectation of a win

[gumboots]

I've forgotten what it feels like, going to watch Rovers with the expectation of a win

Me too but it was what I hoped for this season. Instead I go wondering how many we'll lose by.

[Iceman]

That's a fair point, Jim.

But who would you have appointed with the necessary experience?

And what happens when the experienced manager fails, as so often they do?

Not saying you're wrong and someone like Allardyce, if brought in now, would steady the ship and almost certainly take up to mid-table or better.

But we go back to why so many supporters, me included, didn't want Big Sam in the first place.

We wanted excitement and good football, not percentage football.

So we bring in Ince, he promises exciting,attractive and attacking football... Okay that is alright with me, but where has that taken us? The fans are opposed to Big Sam, because he plays the long ball, he is fat and all that, but i would rather us grind out draws and 1-0 wins and stay in the premier league, than watch utter garbage being played. We dont have the money or the time to get a top class manager in now, right now what we need is a clever manager, who know's what he is doing and who can take responsibility for his team's performance.

all i ever hear from Ince, is excuses...stand up and be a man, and admit to your mistakes and short comings.

What we need is a proper and fit manager...

[rover6]

It strikes me that there may be a possible contradiction in the Rovers management which is not helping things.

Ince, as he has made clear, wants Rovers to play 'mellifluous' football. Hence, he signed Villaneuva and he demanded his MK Dons team to pass the ball.

However, Archie Knox is playing a significant role in our backroom engine room. How influential he is, I do not know, but, if I am not mistaken, he is a man of the blud'n'thunder attritional football.

Mixed signals disorientating the players?

Seeing as Philipl has given up trying to rationalise the steam rising from Rovers current plight, I'm doing my best.

[Parsonblue]

That's a fair point, Jim.

But who would you have appointed with the necessary experience?

And what happens when the experienced manager fails, as so often they do?

Not saying you're wrong and someone like Allardyce, if brought in now, would steady the ship and almost certainly take up to mid-table or better.

But we go back to why so many supporters, me included, didn't want Big Sam in the first place.

We wanted excitement and good football, not percentage football.

Unfortunately, the excitement and good football you crave comes at a price and, sadly, the Rovers are not in a position to pay it. Big Sam may not be everyone's cup of tea but, ultimately, the most important issue for the club is Premiership survival. As we saw in the late sixties and early seventies there is precious little excitement or good football watching your club slip down the Leagues. If Big Sam can increase our odds of Premiership survival that alone is reason to consider him if there is a vacancy for a manager at Ewood Park.

The present financial state of English football means that for many clubs - Rovers included - Premiership survival is the first aim when the season begins. Forty points - or probably one or two more this season - has to be the first target that is aimed for. Both Souness and Hughes has this philosophy although Hughes took it further and saw the forty points as a base from which to build and not just an end in itself. However, both men knew that the club's future depended on being in the Premiership and receiving the income that it generates.

The only question that John Williams should be asking himself at this moment in time is a simple one and it has nothing to do with Ince's three or four year plan to integrate more Academy players into the first team or his plans to adopt a more attractive style of football. Can Paul Ince and his staff keep the club in the Premiership this season? That is the only question that needs to be answered. If yes then back him with money and tell the supporters that you have every confidence in him and expect them to get behind him. If no then make changes and give someone new the time and money to change things. Sadly, I suspect the answer is that they really don't know and the result will be that the club will drift rather aimlessly over the next few weeks.

If the survival target is 43 points then the Rovers will need to collect 30 points from their remaining 24 games. Four of those games are away to the big four and we still have Liverpool to play at home. If our performances against Arsenal, Man United and Chelsea are anything to go by we could be looking at needing 30 points from 19 games. In those circumstances grinding out results will be of far more importance than the quality of the football.

[Paul]

A couple of, dare I say, insightful posts on Rovers' plight. Feel free to agree/disagree

Rovers in crisis!

Negative Ince

Both very good articles

I wanted to go to ewood with an expectation of a win. Not necessarily a certainty, but the feeling that most games you had a better than even chance of winning and therefore, barring accidents, you would. It happened at spells during Hughes's reign and I wanted to get back to it.

Exactly how I feel

The only question that John Williams should be asking himself at this moment in time is a simple one and it has nothing to do with Ince's three or four year plan to integrate more Academy players into the first team or his plans to adopt a more attractive style of football. Can Paul Ince and his staff keep the club in the Premiership this season? That is the only question that needs to be answered. If yes then back him with money and tell the supporters that you have every confidence in him and expect them to get behind him.

An excellent post from Parson Blue and especially this paragraph. If Ince is staying, and I suspect he is, JW needs to follow this advice. Publically back the manager louder than ever before, give him some money and issue a rallying cry to the support.

I'm so depressed going to Ewood I want something to cling to as I'm really tired of the current situation - the team is going down and the support is just waiting for Ince to be sacked. If we are going down lets go with a fight, dirty Blackburn headlines and very sore throats.

Give the opposition something to remember us by.

[almuncle]

New changing rooms?

[Iceman]

Why now, when we are in trouble do we want to give the manager more money to spend, do we want to become more vocal and support the team? I know I live in South Africa, but when I watch Rovers on tv, I shout and scream as if I was at Ewood. Its sad that the board, cannot give the manager money before the season starts, the fans cannot support the team when the times are good, but when we are struggling we somehow find money, we ask the fans to be more vocal…

JW only has 2 questions to ask himself, should I fire Ince or should I let him stay on… He(JW) in my opinion has already made a mistake in appointing Ince, and the answer is to get rid. People were crying out to give Ince at least 10 games to prove his worth, well he is 4 games over that and its time he finds himself another job.

[thenodrog]

And as there has been no suggestion whatsoever that Ince's coaching badges are not going entirely to plan, I sincerely hope his Solicitors have clocked the "bunking off coaching courses" comment.

I bet you we hear no denial Simon.

btw that Dickinsons sure gonna get some vitriolic response from some of the likes of Melleleiu et al about this bit if my experience is anything to go by.

"We promote Ince to the top division after eight good months at Macclesfield and one promising season with Milton Keynes Dons in Coca-Cola League Two. We allow the good vibes of him becoming the first black English manager in the Premier League to obscure his lack of qualifications and experience.!"

And hell is likely to freeze over before he will receive anything close to an apology.

[broadsword]

I see Blackburn Ladies got 2 goals at home to Bristol , can we stick some of them into the team?

[Athlete]

A couple of, dare I say, insightful posts on Rovers' plight. Feel free to agree/disagree

Rovers in crisis!

Negative Ince

they are 2 quality blogs and both are true !

[Rovermatt]

they are 2 quality blogs

Well aside from this pearl:

'Under Ince, Rovers simply lied down...'

[RevidgeBlue]

You're missing the point of the piece in that English football has this strange notion that top players will automatically become top managers and are given big managerial jobs too early in their careers for which they have no experience and for which their only qualification is that they were a big name in their playing days.

Ince wasn't ready to manage Rovers (and neither was Hughes IMO albeit that particular gamble paid off) and should never have been considered for the job.

You have to give them a chance at some point jim and I would wager that statistically equal numbers of foreign coaches bomb miserably.

Christian Gross, Josef Venglos, Perrin at Portsmouth...................... I'm sure there are countless others.

[broadsword]

Well, I don't think that refutes teh point.

I think the point is, that instead of British coaches getting to the top of the tree by working their way up the divisions, instead in this country, we give the top jobs to ex-players who are household names. or to foreign coaches, because maybe foreign is equated with "better"?

[Presty On Tour]

Paul Ince's odds have dropped from 8/1 to 4/1 in the last few days to be the next managerial casualty. Still he's 2nd favorite to Keane who is at 5/2.

[RevidgeBlue]

Well, I don't think that refutes teh point.

I think the point is, that instead of British coaches getting to the top of the tree by working their way up the divisions, instead in this country, we give the top jobs to ex-players who are household names. or to foreign coaches, because maybe foreign is equated with "better"?

Yes, well put Bryan.

I still maintain that doesn't really apply to Ince, he having rolled up his sleeves and got stuck in (and been successful) at lower levels with MK Dons and Macclesfield.

Then again JW was apparently prepared to hand the job to Shearer straight off which tends to prove your point.

[gazsimm]

Paul Ince's odds have dropped from 8/1 to 4/1 in the last few days to be the next managerial casualty. Still he's 2nd favorite to Keane who is at 5/2.

i wonder what the odds will be if we loose at pompey on Sunday, thats if Ince last by then.

Yes, well put Bryan.

I still maintain that doesn't really apply to Ince, he having rolled up his sleeves and got stuck in (and been successful) at lower levels with MK Dons and Macclesfield.

Then again JW was apparently prepared to hand the job to Shearer straight off which tends to prove your point.

i bet shearer is glad he said no to rovers as well now!!

[T4E]

Depends what you regard as foreign Rev - jim mentioned English coaches, so you could argue the likes of Bill Shankly, Alex Ferguson etc back up the point.

[gillibrand]

You have to give them a chance at some point jim and I would wager that statistically equal numbers of foreign coaches bomb miserably.

Christian Gross, Josef Venglos, Perrin at Portsmouth...................... I'm sure there are countless others.

But who cares about foreign coaches, we need a manager who is experienced in the premiership a can work miracles on a shoe string!

[Majiball]

Yes, well put Bryan.

I still maintain that doesn't really apply to Ince, he having rolled up his sleeves and got stuck in (and been successful) at lower levels with MK Dons and Macclesfield.

Then again JW was apparently prepared to hand the job to Shearer straight off which tends to prove your point.

At least if Shearer had brought his brigade with him, we would have had Hansen and Lineker on staff.

Ince did very well at macclesfield granted, but I would love to know how he spent at MK dons, compared to the rest of the league? I'm seem to remember a comment somewhere they where referred too in some quarters as the Chelsea of league two?

With reference to Shearer, was Walker not prepared to give it too him before he left for Newcastle? or is that another wives tale? I would have been happy with Shearer in charge provided the right people where around him. I would have had better faith in Shearer to pick men who would help him succeed.

The whole world class players make world class managers, is quite untrue in modern football. Ferguson, Mourinho, Wenger, Houllier et al hardly at the pinnacle of playing the sport, but all have one thing in common? They are all still students of the game always looking to improve themselves, ours is more interested in golf.