[Archived] Paul Ince

[PAFELL]

That Oliver Holt thing is just a disgrace.

A truly shameful piece of "journalism".

I suppose if we all stood outside Ewood Park with burning crosses, with a great big sign saying, this is being racsit, Holt would say we have got burning religion. This article is an embarrasment to journalism.

Apparently Holt has already taken a dig at the club, calling Unkle Jack a racist...

Apparently, he has come back for seconds...

Can the club do anything about it legally? No because he hasn't actually called the club or any individual a racist. He may have hinted at it as being a possible motive if Ince gets the boot.

[Sandiway Blue]

I think as far as the media is concerned,Ince is paying for his own `big time charlie` reputation,anybody who labels themselves as `the guvnor` is leaving themself wide open to criticism.Since Ince was appointed Rovers manager,the daily rags have had a field day in slating him plus the fact it is well known the southern based rags don`t like small `ugly` clubs such as Bolton,Rovers,Wigan etc.

Although i don`t think it will happen,i would love Ince to stick two fingers up at these pr*cks and drag us out of trouble and back up the table.

[Blue blood]

My word, this board is depressing reading - mostly because it's all true - we well and truely are in the mire with little to be optimistic about.

As for the "article" - is he a mate of Ince's? Just wondering whether he's trying to take some of the heat off Ince by getting rovers fans indignant about defending the fact we're not racist and getting annoyed with him (who lets face it couldn't care one bit) rather than focussing on the shocking job being done by our manager.

Incidently - cracking response btw to such lazy jorunalism - i'd only add that Keane gets slack for a) getting them promoted after a horrible start and vast amounts of money or not he did keep them up and c) there are some positive signs from sunderland.

All we've got from our manager is the reversal of 2 & 1/2 good years of hard work.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Well, some cock had to say it....

Racism?

You,Oliver Holt, are a cretin of the highest order!

I have said this many a time and firmly stand by it.....if/when Rovers are relegated from the top flight the media will dance on our grave.

[John]

In case no one heard him the past 30 times: “We haven’t got the resources other clubs have got "

[thenodrog]

Not wanting to be too negative but I was utterly dismayed when I read the LT last night and the e-mail comments about the Spurs match and Ince in general. It was all positive and gave the impression that we are unlucky, playing well and that Ince is the man etc. and having read the e-mails myself I know that 75% of the comments expressed grave concern and severe doubts as to the management.

As the mouthpiece of the fans they have a duty to tell it like it is, not gloss over the fact we're in the bottom 2 or have gone 8 games in the league without a win. We all want to read positive stuff and want to feel good about our club, but when it's in direct conflict with what is actually happening it's an insult to one's intelligence.

The question is (and I know it's been asked before) how much of a hold do BRFC have on what goes in there ?

I noticed that. As fine a piece of propaganda that JW could surely manage. I felt most sorry for Ped!

[thenodrog]

Well, some cock had to say it....

Racism?

Ignorant shitstirring effin little ****. If racism was involved at all then we wouldn't have appointed the useless bstard in the first place would we! Or is that too difficult for the pathetic little pratt to comprehend?

These people that wave the racist card from distance for no good reason other than to foment mischief are odious intellectually challenged little individuals..... and cowards to boot.

[RovertheHill]

Well, some cock had to say it....

Racism?

Have written to that guy Dan Silver - absolutely incensed

"Dear Mr Silver

As a Blackburn Rovers season ticket holder I am writing to express my absolute disgust at this article written by Oliver Holt. It is journalism at its shoddiest and is a lazy and ill-informed attempt to create a controversy where none exists.

Over the past few weeks there has been a vibrant and well-argued debate amongst Blackburn fans about whether Paul was doing a good job or not. The ONLY reason for this debate has been because of the performances and league position of Blackburn Rovers – no more, no less. Even those of us who have been supportive of Paul are very, very worried about our current position and perhaps more importantly, the fact that we appear to be going backwards as a team. As Mr Holt is seemingly short of facts in this matter I would remind him that we are

• Second bottom of the premier league

• Top of the goals conceded league

• Top of the disciplinary league

• Second bottom of the form league – with 2 points from a possible 18

I would also like to address some of Mr Holt’s specific comments

• I suspect Roy Keane has had a honeymoon period at Sunderland due to his success in getting them promoted and also keeping them up after they were frankly humiliated the previous two times they were promoted. He has not just been appointed to a club that has been used to qualifying for Europe over the last few years

• He is characterised as a novice because he is – he’s said this himself!

• Paul was manager when Bentley was sold. Whilst these days clubs have very little power if a player wants to leave, it is a fact that the club made more funds available for Paul than they had done in previous years for Mark Hughes, including the proceeds of the Bentley sale

• I clearly do not know the facts but I suspect the reason for Tony Adams appointment at Portsmouth has as much to do with continuity and the financial difficulties of Portsmouth, than anything to do with him being a white man

The debate in Blackburn is about whether we will survive under Paul this season or whether this is our “Sammy Lee” moment. To imply otherwise, with no evidence or justification, is disgraceful, and Mr Holt should be ashamed at trying to whip up a storm like this in a multi-cultural area like Blackburn. Frankly, if he thinks Paul is getting some rough treatment then he should be pointing out the footballing reasons why these people are wrong, and how exactly he sees Paul turning it around for us.

I hope that you pass this complaint on to Mr Holt as I would be most interested in his comments."

[den]

Very well written RTH. Hope you will get a reply and post it on here.

[tony gale's mic]

That Holt article really enrages me. I'm just about as anti-racist as you can get, I've argued against others on this board on these issues so when someone claims racism falsely like Holt is doing here, it cheapens that whole movement completely and means racism as a concept loses credence.

I'm sure I remember a time when Holt was a good sports journalist over at The Times writing some insightful pieces, it just goes to show that the gutter press drags journalists right down with them.

Anyway:

Why do you think it is that Paul Ince is being written off as a manager only a few games into his first job in the Premier League? Because he's taken a club that was seventh all the way down to 19th

Why do you think nobody's cutting him the same kind of slack we cut Roy Keane, even though Keane's spent 10 times as much money? Because Roy Keane took over a side that was in the Championship, Ince took over a consistently top 10 side. Keane is under some pressure at the moment.

Why do you think Ince is characterised as a novice when he stands up for his team while other bosses doing the same are praised for their passion? Because he doesn't do it at the appropriate time.

Why do you think nobody's mentioning the fact that when he took over at Blackburn, he had to cope with the sale of his best player? Why do you think that, given his budget restrictions, few people are suggesting he's not made such a bad start? Because HE sold him and didn't buy a replacement, despite having the time and money. If these budget restrictions meant he could waste 4 million on Grella they can't have been that bad.

Why do you think when Tony Adams failed in his first chance in management, his second came in the Premier League? Because he'd been assistant at that same club.

Why do you think that when John Barnes failed in his first chance in management, his second came with Jamaica? Maybe if John Barnes had shown his qualities as assistant somewhere, he wouldve been promoted?

Why do you think it took 120 years for a top-flight club here to appoint a British black manager? Because there WAS racism in football in the 80s but its only now that we're seeing the first true wave of black players becoming old enough to be managers. If Sol Campbell gets into coaching after football and does well enough to warrant a job I guarantee noone will turn him down.

Why do you think people are calling for Ince's head when he's barely been in charge for 120 days? Because we're in the relegation zone.

Idiot.

[LDRover]

I noticed that. As fine a piece of propaganda that JW could surely manage. I felt most sorry for Ped!

And tonight we get a piece from Rovers reporter Andy Cryer comparing his first 14 games with the same period under Mark Hughes in which he conveniently forgets the different circumstances in which they both took their respective jobs.

It's becoming a mouthpiece for Rovers propaganda rather than a sports section.

[andrew92]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11676_4553212,00.html

i actually like hat ince has said there, and think that he said the right thing, (until the last line), if he shut up about the financial situation, where at the stat of the season he did have money to spend, and i think they would of bout a right mid if the found one quick enough. but he just says the wrong things! we have been playing crap, and players come out like nelson and point out that mistakes we make, and we do nothing to rectify them!

[LeChuck]

• I clearly do not know the facts but I suspect the reason for Tony Adams appointment at Portsmouth has as much to do with continuity and the financial difficulties of Portsmouth, than anything to do with him being a white man

Very good post RTH, I hope Mr. Holt reads it.

I think this bit should be expanded though. Tony Adams was probably the greatest leader of men on the pitch that this country has had in the last 15 years (at least at the highest level), I think the sheer respect most people have for him in the game meant he was going to get a second chance.

John Barnes, on the other hand, is a mild mannered and quite softly spoken left winger. I don't think he strikes anyone has being management material and it wasn't really a surprise when he failed.

How do idiots like Oliver Holt end up on a platform to air these moronic views? It angers me beyond belief.

[riverside returns]

HOLT IS A DISREPUTABLE ASS! NEVER SHOULD HE DARKEN OUT DOORS. INCE NEEDS SUPPORT AND SOME GOOD FORTUNE WHICH WE HAVE NOT HAD UP TO THIS TIME! WARNOCK BACK TO FULLBACK, AND MCARTHY TO SUPPORT RSC. HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET SOMETHING AT POMPEY AND STOP THE ROT.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Holt's article is out-of-order, shocking actually and a smear on the club, but there are elements of the club's support which make his metropolitan jibes believeable to the causal reader.

I've heard stuff about Walker and other senior members of the clubs before from journos.

[LeChuck]

I think it did elude to the problem being throughout football (hence the Adams and Barnes comparison) rather than localised in Blackburn, but it's a despicable article nonetheless.

[Athlete]

See that does my head in. Ince is justifiably being judged on his results, not his race.

Like you say though, it was bound to come sooner or later.

ITS NOT CREED , COLOUR , SEXUALITY OR WETHER YOUR A BIKER , A MOD OR A GOTH I COULDN'T GIVE A f*** ITS RESULTS AND PERFORMANCES ON THE PITCH THAT MATTER

[thenodrog]

I've heard stuff about Walker and other senior members of the clubs before from journos.

?

What 'stuff' have you heard?

[Tris]

Not what you said after the Sunderland game.

Apologies for not replying to this earlier - been working away in sunny Dublin today, and the thread has since moved on because of Oliver Holt. I'm not sure why people are so surprised about the content of the gutter press. Maybe Nicko will force the Mirror to put everything straight.

Back to 47ers point. I posted after the Sunderland game that a performance and a result v Spurs was essential for Ince.

We got neither, and I cringed at the post match comments from Ince which were a load of tosh. I would not have been upset to learn on Monday or Tuesday that Ince had been canned.

That hasn't happened, and "we are where we are". That means we need 3 points on Sunday, and Ince will be in charge.

The long and short of it is that I will not join the chorus of vitriol against the manager, I will support whoever is in charge. That extends to creating positive vibes on this MB, because so much of what is posted is in the other direction... who knows whether Mr Holt used that to help build his case, but it's well known that journalists use supporters sites as a guage of public opinion.

So for me, for now, it's back the manager for Sunday's game. Heaven knows we need 3 points, and on Monday we can take stock again. I hope that answers your point 47er!!

[allrovertheworld]

I never read the Mirror and know little about this Holt fella, but to me he wasn't having a go at the club more the negative press Ince has had since day one.

Think folk are getting abit excited because they tink its directed at our supporters. Get over it guys.I honestly think he was making a pretty good point aswell, as there does seem to be a desire from the press to see Paul Ince fail.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Let me just had my voice to the others complaining about that piece of gutter journalism in the "Mirror". I've been an Anti-Racist all my adult life and I've got the arrests to prove it. I want Ince out because he's taken the team I've supported since 1961 to 2nd from the bottom of the league and if given the chance he'll take us down. I don't care is he's white , black, blue with purple spots- the bottom line is- He's not up to the job.

[47er]

Apologies for not replying to this earlier - been working away in sunny Dublin today, and the thread has since moved on because of Oliver Holt. I'm not sure why people are so surprised about the content of the gutter press. Maybe Nicko will force the Mirror to put everything straight.

Back to 47ers point. I posted after the Sunderland game that a performance and a result v Spurs was essential for Ince.

We got neither, and I cringed at the post match comments from Ince which were a load of tosh. I would not have been upset to learn on Monday or Tuesday that Ince had been canned.

That hasn't happened, and "we are where we are". That means we need 3 points on Sunday, and Ince will be in charge.

The long and short of it is that I will not join the chorus of vitriol against the manager, I will support whoever is in charge. That extends to creating positive vibes on this MB, because so much of what is posted is in the other direction... who knows whether Mr Holt used that to help build his case, but it's well known that journalists use supporters sites as a guage of public opinion.

So for me, for now, it's back the manager for Sunday's game. Heaven knows we need 3 points, and on Monday we can take stock again. I hope that answers your point 47er!!

Fair enough and well put. I haven't any faith about Sunday and we must be clear favourites to lose this one too. How long should this go on? Next manager will have a mountain to climb if he hasn't already.Let's hope I'm wrong.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

I've heard stuff about Walker and other senior members of the clubs before from journos.

As odious as Oliver Holt's article is, I also think it is quite repugnant for people to make aspersions and insinuations against a generous benefactor like Uncle Jack who can no longer reply to the smears and innuendo from people as he has been dead for over eight years.

Jack can no longer defend his name from beyond the grave. Just because one or two shabby journalists may have smeared Jack as a "racist" where is the actual evidence for that? I don't think any evidence exists at all.

It was Jack Walker who in 1998 gave Roy Hodgson £4.5m to spend on Nathan Blake. So the false smears and suggestions from one or two tacky journalists that Jack didn't buy any black players for Rovers is completely false. It's disappointing that some Rovers fans seem to believe the smears and innuendo from a couple of shabby journos.

If racism was involved at all then we wouldn't have appointed the useless bstard in the first place would we! Or is that too difficult for the pathetic little pratt to comprehend?

These people that wave the racist card from distance for no good reason other than to foment mischief are odious intellectually challenged little individuals..... and cowards to boot.

Indeed Gordon.

It's a pity that freedom of speech and legitimate political debate that one would often find being discussed in the pub has been curtailed on the ICBINF section of this messageboard because of the hysterical reaction of a couple of people who complained about "snidey racism".

Those whom the Gods seek to destroy they first make mad....

Anyway back to Paul Ince - I think his time should be up. I recall him just before the start of the season saying: "Judge me after 8 games and let's see where we are there."

Well it's now 14 games and we are stuck in the bottom three without a win in our last 8 games. We're facing a desperate relegation battle and I have no confidence in Ince being the man to lead us out of the mess.

I think Ince is a man out of his depth at this managerial level. If he thinks our performance against Spurs was "outstanding" then we've got major problems. I'm frankly sick and tired of his excuses and ridiculous post-match comments after games which insult the intelligence of most ordinary supporters.

[Presty On Tour]

Nice job ASEF, excellent post.

[FourLaneBlue]

Ignorant shitstirring effin little ****. If racism was involved at all then we wouldn't have appointed the useless bstard in the first place would we! Or is that too difficult for the pathetic little pratt to comprehend?

These people that wave the racist card from distance for no good reason other than to foment mischief are odious intellectually challenged little individuals..... and cowards to boot.

I think it is pretty obvious that Holt is playing the race card to take some of the heat of Ince. No doubt helped by suggestions from Darren Lewis who is unable to do it himself after his hysterical article in the summer about how dare little old Rovers even think twice about appointing such a legend as the Guv´nor.

The Mirror is the only newspaper that consistently publish crap about us (as opposed to the others who do it every now and then as the wind blows) and I have been saying this since a spectacularly spiteful piece in 1994 lauding over our failure to land the title. Since then there have been periodic and sustained invectives against the side. Not sure why but maybe The Sun or The Star sells particularly well against them in the area.