[Archived] Paul Ince

[den]

I don't know den, even look through our starting 11 vs Spurs and it isn't relegation standard. Robinson, Samba, Santa Cruz, McCarthy, Nelsen, Ooijer...none of those players are bottom three standard. And then think of the players that weren't playing - Warnock, Dunn, Emerton, Vogel...sure our central midfield situation right now is woeful and we're not one of the best in the league but we have more than enough quality in our squad to stay up at the very least.

You sure TGM?

Just a thought on a miserable rainy days guys!

[Sysagent]

Another thing is I am quite sure the squad we have is a damn sight better than the one Hull has and look how they are performing!

p.s. heard last night Dunny is currently in light training and will be making a comeback in "two weeks"

EDIT: Added quotes for Den's benefit

[den]

p.s. heard last night Dunny is currently in light training and will be making a comeback in two weeks

You heard wrong. The LT says end of December.

[Sysagent]

You heard wrong. The LT says end of December.

Mmm you believe everything the press says Den?

[Majiball]

I've had an idea, would people be willing to give Ince some more time if say he was to clear out some of his dead-wood? When he first came along and assembled his "dream" team, I have to say it was them that frightened me the most and I was perhaps a little over-zealous in my berating of them. If Ince was to get rid and bring in some more experienced coaches in the "modern" world of the premiership, would it change some people out-look? I do worry that when Ince needs advice and asks his coaches he's probably getting info that would have worked 10+ years ago. I honestly feel this is where Ince shot himself in the foot.

It would bring in the fresh ideas we desperately need and is far cheaper than sacking Ince. I wonder if JW would tell him to do it.

Would any of you consider a grace period or has Ince done enough damage?

PS I've seen Rays picture on the official site, why doesn't he have a Parrot on his shoulder?

[leftfooter]

I don't know den, even look through our starting 11 vs Spurs and it isn't relegation standard. Robinson, Samba, Santa Cruz, McCarthy, Nelsen, Ooijer...none of those players are bottom three standard. And then think of the players that weren't playing - Warnock, Dunn, Emerton, Vogel...sure our central midfield situation right now is woeful and we're not one of the best in the league but we have more than enough quality in our squad to stay up at the very least.

Anybody that cannot see we are lacking in quality is simply deluding himself.

To illustrate my point, let’s try one homely test shall we?

Q: If we were to go down, or needed to spark a fire sale in January (a la Portsmouth or West Ham); for which of our players would we have to wield the proverbial sh***y stick to fight off other clubs who would be lining up to acquire their services?

A: (i) RSC, (ii) Samba

There are others we could comfortably sell (The Emu, Robinson, Warnock and SMD), but there wouldn’t exactly be a que snaking around Ewood Park for them.

As for the others you mention, they’re either reaching the end of the road, over the hill, lame ducks or possibly all three!

Compare that with the players Portsmouth and West Ham will be discarding and displaying in their respective shop windows during the January sales; you’d find most of ours in the bargain basement.

I've had an idea, would people be willing to give Ince some more time if say he was to clear out some of his dead-wood? When he first came along and assembled his "dream" team, I have to say it was them that frightened me the most and I was perhaps a little over-zealous in my berating of them. If Ince was to get rid and bring in some more experienced coaches in the "modern" world of the premiership, would it change some people out-look? I do worry that when Ince needs advice and asks his coaches he's probably getting info that would have worked 10+ years ago. I honestly feel this is where Ince shot himself in the foot.

It would bring in the fresh ideas we desperately need and is far cheaper than sacking Ince. I wonder if JW would tell him to do it.

Would any of you consider a grace period or has Ince done enough damage?

PS I've seen Rays picture on the official site, why doesn't he have a Parrot on his shoulder?

That is wishful thinking.

It's time for Ince to either take a sh** or get off the pot.

The next 2 matches will probably decide his and our future.

[den]

I think it'll be more a case of "people will look back in a few years time and say "that manager was not good enough"" - but I'd like to be proved wrong.

Yeah, fair do's. I think I'm trying to say that we've got both at the moment - a dud manager and a squad of players nowhere near as good as we think.

[LDRover]

Yeah, fair do's. I think I'm trying to say that we've got both at the moment - a dud manager and a squad of players nowhere near as good as we think.

A heady cocktail indeed. Down in one.

[MCMC1875]

Another thing is I am quite sure the squad we have is a damn sight better than the one Hull has and look how they are performing!

p.s. heard last night Dunny is currently in light training and will be making a comeback in "two weeks"

EDIT: Added quotes for Den's benefit

A radio report said back in 2 weeks and that was 2 weeks ago!

Totally disagree Den. The squad is more or less the same - apart from we lost Bentley and didn't replace him. Brad went and Robbo came in - which is nigh on the same really (Brad's age, and the fact that he would need replacing soon anyway).

The outstanding feature surely has to be that it's the same players, with a few injuries of course, and the squads numbers have been increased with players who haven't had any impact.

I think it'll be more a case of "people will look back in a few years time and say "that manager was not good enough"" - but I'd like to be proved wrong.

Much like Jim Iley is remembered Bob!

[Mc Love]

I've had an idea, would people be willing to give Ince some more time if say he was to clear out some of his dead-wood? When he first came along and assembled his "dream" team, I have to say it was them that frightened me the most and I was perhaps a little over-zealous in my berating of them. If Ince was to get rid and bring in some more experienced coaches in the "modern" world of the premiership, would it change some people out-look? I do worry that when Ince needs advice and asks his coaches he's probably getting info that would have worked 10+ years ago. I honestly feel this is where Ince shot himself in the foot.

It would bring in the fresh ideas we desperately need and is far cheaper than sacking Ince. I wonder if JW would tell him to do it.

Would any of you consider a grace period or has Ince done enough damage?

PS I've seen Rays picture on the official site, why doesn't he have a Parrot on his shoulder?

No i dont think he should be given more time. He shouldnt have taken/been offered the job if he doesnt know what he is doing, regardless of what staff he brings in

[tony gale's mic]

Anybody that cannot see we are lacking in quality is simply deluding himself.

To illustrate my point, let’s try one homely test shall we?

Q: If we were to go down, or needed to spark a fire sale in January (a la Portsmouth or West Ham); for which of our players would we have to wield the proverbial sh***y stick to fight off other clubs who would be lining up to acquire their services?

A: (i) RSC, (ii) Samba

There are others we could comfortably sell (The Emu, Robinson, Warnock and SMD), but there wouldn’t exactly be a que snaking around Ewood Park for them.

As for the others you mention, they’re either reaching the end of the road, over the hill, lame ducks or possibly all three!

Compare that with the players Portsmouth and West Ham will be discarding and displaying in their respective shop windows during the January sales; you’d find most of ours in the bargain basement.

That is wishful thinking.

It's time for Ince to either take a sh** or get off the pot.

The next 2 matches will probably decide his and our future.

I don't disagree with you,but all that means is that we're a mid table/lower mid-table standard. Teams that get relegated often don't even have one star in their side, let alone two, and certainly not a whole raft of good players like we have. If we get relegated it will certainly be much more of a managerial fault than a fault of the squad.

[philipl]

Totally disagree Den. The squad is more or less the same - apart from we lost Bentley and didn't replace him. Brad went and Robbo came in - which is nigh on the same really (Brad's age, and the fact that he would need replacing soon anyway).

The outstanding feature surely has to be that it's the same players, with a few injuries of course, and the squads numbers have been increased with players who haven't had any impact.

I think it'll be more a case of "people will look back in a few years time and say "that manager was not good enough"" - but I'd like to be proved wrong.

Here is a classic piece of good old fashioned liberal fence sitting:

You are both right.

When Bentley went we lost

1) the one outfield player you could rely on to retain posession no matter how much pressure he was under.

2) the best and most prolific crosser in the Premier League by a margin of 10% © Opta

3) By far our most reliable assister (>20) as well as a midfielder who regularly supplied goals, many of which were frequently game changers and very spectacular.

The loss of Bentley was compounded by:

1) no replacement

2) moving our full backs to midfield so no full backs

3) thereby effectively meaning we can neither defend nor attack effectively on either flank

4) if you look at how we go off the boil after very bright openings every match and how opponents can pressurise us off our game rather than the way we used to pressure others off their game, (not to mention the injuries to injury-prone players we avoided last season), I think it is not unreasonable to speculate that training and fitness are not all they should be.

Other than that we are just as strong as last year.

[tony gale's mic]

Just think, the Rovers - Villa game was this time last year. We were riding high prior to that and one or two people were even questioning if we had an outside chance of finishing top 4.

How times have changed.

[leftfooter]

I don't disagree with you,but all that means is that we're a mid table/lower mid-table standard. Teams that get relegated often don't even have one star in their side, let alone two, and certainly not a whole raft of good players like we have. If we get relegated it will certainly be much more of a managerial fault than a fault of the squad.

Hughes wasn't daft. He obviously saw that he couldn't keep all the plates spinning at the same time and many in fact were starting to wobble.

Most other managers would have struggled with this squad.

Thus far, Ince has simply done a more thorough and rapid job of cocking things up than most.

[RevidgeBlue]

Right - a "bit" of backing for Ince here.

If you look back in history, at the teams that have been relegated, there will be one common factor. Basically the players were not good enough. Now I know it's been said we went down in 66 with a good squad, but there was extenuating circumstances there, - the Polio outbreak. Bottom of the league by a small distance before we kicked off. Also, Douglas missed a lot of that season through injury while Clayton was coming to the end of a great career.

Anyway, back to the point. If nothing were to change between now and the end of the season and we went down, I think it's fair to say that this squad wasn't good enough. Simple as that. No-one could argue with that, could they?

The one argument against that would be that Hughes had this squad, minus Friedel and Bentley, finishing 7th in the league. Well I suggest that if we're honest, we miss Bentley far more than most people admit.

The other reason I said this is only a "bit" of support for Ince, is that most people would say that Hughes was a far better tactician that Ince. Don't think that's out of line either, is it?

So, whoever takes us through to the end of this season is going to have one hell of a job keeping us in this league. January is going to be crucial IMO. We need to strengthen the squad considerably and we need the best person possible to manage that squad. Let's not be suckered into thinking that this is all down simply to the current manager, because it isn't.

The bottom line is, the current squad is one of the poorest in the league.

Agree with that entirely den.

After Savage was injured, even St. Mark only managed thirty six points from the final twenty eight games of last season.

Which isn't THAT much better than relegation form.

If you're looking at it brutally, we've got a top class keeper, (Robinson) competent right back, (Emerton) one top drawer centre half (Samba) excellent left back (Warnock) one decent creative central midfielder when fit (Dunn) and one top class striker (Roque)

When you consider there's been nil net investment in the squad for around six years, we're doing well we've got that many tbh.

That's not to say the team as a whole can't knuckle down and grind out results a lot more effectively than they have been doing.

[broadsword]

Keeping a clean sheet would be a bloody start.

when was the last clean sheet?

[RevidgeBlue]

Keeping a clean sheet would be a bloody start.

when was the last clean sheet?

Bolton away?

Exactly right Bryan.

Howard Kendall got off to an inauspicious start as Rovers manager but became one of our best ever on the strength of keeping things tighter than the Trustees' pursestrings at the back.

I always think if you can keep a clean sheet you can't go too far wrong, as more often than not you'll score at the other end.

[philipl]

Keeping a clean sheet would be a bloody start.

when was the last clean sheet?

Notlob

[broadsword]

Howard Kendall got off to an inauspicious start as Rovers manager but became one of our best ever on the strength of keeping things tighter than the Trustees' pursestrings at the back.

:laugh: Ouch!

We agree then. It's what a caretaker manager normally does when he comes in. Tightens it up at the back. Pick up a cheeky point here and there, suddenly confidence improves.

Bolton away and Fulham at home our only clean sheets this season. Fulham as I seem to recall weren't scoring that many at the time, and Bolton are having a really lean season up front.

We can still get out of this mess as we do have goals in us (although not if we get our shape as badly wrong as we did against Spurs), but things have to change.

[waggy]

i told you all before paul ince is unpopular with a lot off the clubs support because off his colour,shot down i was,dummies thrown out off the pram.a journo makes the same remark and you all moan again.i watched the match in a pub on sunday and the "GET RID OFF THE EFFIN B$$$$ B%%^&%$ NOW " were in full flow,but these wern't rovers fans they were just wearing the shirt.came out off the ground after the sunderland game,first person i spoke too said,what do you expect with a " B£$%^ B$%£"^& IN CHARGE" NOT RACIST US ROVERS FANS

[roversmum]

No doubt if he was French they would be calling him a French(what Waggy said) or if he was rotund they would be calling him a Fat(what Waggy said) etc. They are not happy with us finding ourselves in the league position that we are in at the moment. Personally I don't like name calling or swearing but unfortunately it exists as some are not able to express themselves in any other way.

[T4E]

i told you all before paul ince is unpopular with a lot off the clubs support because off his colour,shot down i was,dummies thrown out off the pram.a journo makes the same remark and you all moan again.i watched the match in a pub on sunday and the "GET RID OFF THE EFFIN B$$$$ B%%^&%$ NOW " were in full flow,but these wern't rovers fans they were just wearing the shirt.came out off the ground after the sunderland game,first person i spoke too said,what do you expect with a " B£$%^ B$%£"^& IN CHARGE" NOT RACIST US ROVERS FANS

So for the two people you spoke to that are racist, you've got hundreds on here that clearly aren't. We have our plonker element just like everyone else, but a sweeping statement like "Rovers Fans Are Racist" is bang out of order.

[waggy]

So for the two people you spoke to that are racist, you've got hundreds on here that clearly aren't. We have our plonker element just like everyone else, but a sweeping statement like "Rovers Fans Are Racist" is bang out of order.

i think our plonker element is more than 2

[T4E]

Still a minority.

[CrazyIvan]

Still a minority.

Yep, we have our little group of morons. To be fair to Waggy, I don't think he was saying that all Rovers fans are racist just some...