[Archived] Paul Ince

[Presty On Tour]

You just never know till you ask.

What some people may forget is Blackburn Rovers is a great club, full of tradition. It's a team in the premier league which is one of the best leagues in the world and has a beautiful stadium in Ewood Park plus world class training facilities. A squad full of International class to work with and the best fans in the world.

For a unemployed manager, it's definitely an option to consider.

[Paul]

Allegedly the story is that Board decided to fire Ince on Thursday but decided to leave it until after the Liverpool match. They decided to sack him after the players gave JW chapter and verse after the United game leaving JW with zero choice.

JW called Bolton to check on BFS's current thinking today- that has reached the dailies.

He compounded it by ringing SUNDERLAND and asking if they are going for BFS and telling them that Souness/Tugay is Rovers' fall back if they take BFS.

It is going to be a very long 24 hours.

Kamy I don't wish to criticise you, and I've no idea about your source, but I do not think this is true. IF it is true I think it's safe to say no one outside of the club board would be aware and any leak would have come from Sunderland or Bolton. A number of reasons for this:

1. No senior management at Rovers will be openly discussing the matter with staff.

2. IF JW needs to talk with Bolton / Sunderland it will be at a senior level and he will have direct numbers for Quinn / Gartside etc

3. Ringing Sunderland to ask their position on Allardyce is laughable. I'll remember it next time I'm after a new customer, just ring up my competitor and ask the price they offer and beat it by 10%. Pull the other one please.

4. This is tabloid stuff, with nothing to back it up.

There is going to be something pretty revealing and explosive in a few papers in the morning.

For obvious reasons I can't go into more detail.

But tomorrow is going to be an interesting day.

Still waiting for the bang. If I see Souness on the touchline today that would be explosive.

A Souness / Tugay appoinment, till the end of the season, has some logic. Souey is probably a man to get the club out of the current mess, though I'd be less sure about the long term. Putting Tugay by his side would be very smart and bring the fans onside immediately plus if there is any thought about Tugay as a future coach / manager it gives Rovers six months to look at him. Removing Ince is not the problem, a suitable short-term or long term replacement is the problem. I feel sure JW will not want to rush this.

I doubt it will be Allardyce. Apparently more than 3000 fans were dumb enough to sign the Facebook petition last summer, assumming they all go to Ewood and aren't just bandwagoners that's roughly 15% of the home gate - actually more representative than this board's active posters. I do hope all those who didn't want Allardyce have some serious justification for asking for his appointment - he'll get us out of this mess isn't any sort of logic in my book as you'll be stuck with a man you derided just a few months back. One problem for Allardyce is he reportedly brings such a huge team with him, making one wonder if the club can afford him as a longterm candidate.

Ince's press conference remarks make interesting reading and are the clearest sign yet of the pressure he faces. Until the last few days there has been remarkably little "Ince Out" stuff in the media, even today there is nothing which could be described as the campaign Ince refers to. Ince has been around long enough to know 99% of the media stuff is junk designed to sell product, if he doesn't understand this one has to question where he's been for 20 odd years? Last night Radio Five devoted a long session to discussing Ince and the question of "young managers" with the broadcasters broadly supportive, suggesting Ince and others should be backed by their club chairman. Winterburn was on the same programme, much of what he said made sense though I'm surprised nobody has turned it around to hammer him on here. The approach is far more considered than anything you'll find in your newsagents.

The "media out to get us" stuff confirms for me why Ince should never have been appointed - he can't handle the pressure. My view on Ince has always been: "I don't think you're the right man for Rovers, show me what you can do." I'm still waiting to see something. I didn't like Ince as a player and this creates a problem. If one spends 15 years or more with an image of being a rather unpleasant, arrogant brat who doesn't give a jot for others please don't be surprised when people think this is what you are. Paul Ince created his image on the football field over many years and he's done little to dispell that image in the last six months. The "media out to get us" stuff may well prove very unwise with regard to his future career. Compare Ince's reputation as a player with, for example, Souness, the difference is huge. Having said that I'm still very uncomfortable with the recent treatment of Ince on here. That plus the Allardyce Facebook stuff makes one wonder......

The Souness / Allardyce rumours are going to add fuel to the fire this afternoon. It's going to be interesting.

[alexanders]

Why is everyone 100% sure about these stories?

We know for sure that JW is a very silent chairman and exceptional at hiding stuff from the media.

[Bobby G]

Beggars cant be choosers. People want Ince out cause they think we will be certainly relegated but begin to moan about the replacements. I think any change of direction is good. Look at Joe Kinnear for God's sake...

But I do hope that Allardyce is the first choice and he is approached before Souness.

Personally I wouldnt go for a foreigner or a lower-league man cause it poses too much of a risk and we cannot risk anything now. Allardyce is perfect for it and a few days ago Im sure it wouldve been him but if Sunderland want him, there is no competition. Souness I always liked the man, he was honest, and he did give us one of the greatest eras in the clubs recent history with a trophy as well! Im not sure about him long-term but as a fallback option I can live with it.

[Zulu]

Am I wrong to prefer David O'Leary over Sam Allardyce to succeed Ince, should results not pick up?

You have just turned "wrong" into an art form.

[Zulu]

I know that this has been asked already - but it didn't get an answer. Why would JW talk to Bolton about Allardyce's views? Phil Gartside would stab Sam as soon as look at him, if rumours are to be believed.

That bit just doesn't stack up (neither does asking Sunderland for the current state of play, for that matter.)

[Bobby G]

Actually talking to Sunderland may not be unbelievable, but Bolton doesnt make sense WHATSOEVER!

[JAL]

I know that this has been asked already - but it didn't get an answer. Why would JW talk to Bolton about Allardyce's views? Phil Gartside would stab Sam as soon as look at him, if rumours are to be believed.

That bit just doesn't stack up (neither does asking Sunderland for the current state of play, for that matter.)

There could quite well be another parallel story trying to undermine and destroy John Williams credibility as the hacks put the knife into him for his handling of the whole affair.

[nicko]

I've not had a chance to read the papers yet, but...

The story broke from Sunderland yesterday afternoon when a senior official at that club tipped off a reporter about the 'check call' on Allardyce.

A couple of papers rang the managers involved and I got to hear about it later.

I don't know where the 'inquiry to Bolton' line appears...but that doesn't mean it's not true.

Breathtaking that calls are being made in the build-up to a game.

As it stands it's Big Sam or Souey plus Tugay by the looks of it.

I don't think Sam is a cert for Sunderland, while Souey is the other choice. I'm not sure that there is a first choice and a second choice replacement. It's an either or.

Very odd business.

[Bobby G]

You mean either Ince OR a replacement?

Or either Allardyce or Souey/Toogs?

[American]

Exactly right.

Souness brought the club to the very brink of disaster last time round, falling out with numerous players, unfathomable tactics, and transfer dealings which were questionable (and that's a very diplomatic way of putting it). Why don't we bring in Craig Allardyce as his Director of Football as well while we're at it?.

Don't worry about your 17m for Roque - Graeme can just give him away, Andy Cole style, for free!

If he is even under consideration it shows the plot has been completely lost in the Boardroom. Souness shouldn't be let within a mile of our beloved Club again.

If JW actually wants Souness back his position is untenable as well imo.

If Souness did come back, I think that might be it for me after 38 years of watching the club.

And what did Cole do that was so great after leaving us? At the time, he didn't have the mentality for the relegation battle, constantly with his head down. Even the last couple of seasons with us he only averaged about 9 goals per season, plus his wages were astronomical.

Souness is a good candidate on a short-term assignment. Even his last full season, we put up a great fight at the end. Interesting that you constantly defend Ince, but are willing to pull a Gordon if one of our most successful recent managers returns.

But I guess my opinion doesn't count, as I've only been to Ewood twice.

[leftfooter]

Exactly right.

Souness brought the club to the very brink of disaster last time round, falling out with numerous players, unfathomable tactics, and transfer dealings which were questionable (and that's a very diplomatic way of putting it). Why don't we bring in Craig Allardyce as his Director of Football as well while we're at it?.

Don't worry about your 17m for Roque - Graeme can just give him away, Andy Cole style, for free!

If he is even under consideration it shows the plot has been completely lost in the Boardroom. Souness shouldn't be let within a mile of our beloved Club again.

If JW actually wants Souness back his position is untenable as well imo.

If Souness did come back, I think that might be it for me after 38 years of watching the club.

I was a fan of Souness (on balance), but received a warning for suggesting something of this ilk a few months ago.

Do me a favour Kamy, I'm not having that at all. That would be incredibly stupid by JW.

1. Anybody with any gumption would contact Allardyce or his agent directly and not directly ask bloody Sunderland what they were up to.

2. No businessman worth his salt would inform a rival of some 'back up plan'.

3. What have Bolton got to do with all this?

4. There's a strong whiff of corruption / dodgy deals surrounding the Souness years imo with the deals around Grabbi, Baggio, Ferguson, Amoruso all a taj suspicious.

Ditto: I was a fan of Souness (on balance), but received a warning for suggesting something of this ilk a few months ago.

Am I correct to assume that he is still under investigation from the Stevens Enquiry regarding some of his dealings with Glasgow Rangers players when at Newcastle?

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Berg was Dalglish, you should have gone for Friedel Tugay and Neill !

On a sidenote, who would Souness' coach be ? Tugay can assistant manage but surely not coach.

Berg was resigned by Souness whilst we were in the Championship

[nicko]

You mean either Ince OR a replacement?

Or either Allardyce or Souey/Toogs?

I can only imagine that the club checking on Allardyce's availability and the state of play with Sunderland - and mentioning their Souness-Tugay option at the same time - is because they plan to change managers.

Sam is chasing Sunderland and getting people to push his case, but he is not past the post.

It is easy to sack a manager. It is difficult finding a manager - it makes it harder when one of the candidates could go elsewhere.

But the timing of this is still a bit strange.

Am I correct to assume that he is still under investigation from the Stevens Enquiry regarding some of his dealings with Glasgow Rangers players when at Newcastle?

No.

[Bobby G]

nicko any feelings where Sam Allardyce himself stands in the eyes of the Sunderland board?

[j166429]

Where are the "explosive" reports? All seems pretty quiet at the moment.

[nicko]

nicko any feelings where Sam Allardyce himself stands in the eyes of the Sunderland board?

He is one of a few names being considered. No more than that.

[Mike Graham]

just heard Only 2 Garners on Radio 5: balanced view, if not just a wee bit biased towards giving Ince a few more games (sorry John).

However basically said that the fans want the guy out. Must have got that from BRFCS !!

[T4E]

Where are the "explosive" reports? All seems pretty quiet at the moment.

Erm....the club is intending to sack the manager, have already lined up two possible replacements, one of which could be our former manager who splits opinion on here like no other.

Short of appointing Wile E Coyote with Roadrunner as his assistant, how much more explosive were you expecting?

[only2garners]

just heard Only 2 Garners on Radio 5: balanced view, if not just a wee bit biased towards giving Ince a few more games (sorry John).

However basically said that the fans want the guy out. Must have got that from BRFCS !!

Thanks PB. They rang at 10.30 last night asking for someone to interview and I thought about asking someone else as I knew my view wasn't representative but it was a bit late on a Friday night. I was just expecting questions about Ince's future and the fans views so I was a bit thrown when Phil Williams asked me about what was wrong on the pitch.

[Fylde Coast Fan]

Ah, the glory days of Souness: http://www.wsc.co.uk/content/view/444/29/

[The Prof.]

And what did Cole do that was so great after leaving us? At the time, he didn't have the mentality for the relegation battle, constantly with his head down. Even the last couple of seasons with us he only averaged about 9 goals per season, plus his wages were astronomical.

Souness is a good candidate on a short-term assignment. Even his last full season, we put up a great fight at the end. Interesting that you constantly defend Ince, but are willing to pull a Gordon if one of our most successful recent managers returns.

But I guess my opinion doesn't count, as I've only been to Ewood twice.

Anyone who saw Cole on the pitch was amazed how much more of a player he looked on the pitch than on TV. He was very upset by the 4" gash left in Yorkes leg by Souness in training (who didn't apologise or even acknowledge Yorke which led to a bust up in the canteen after. Cole had 2 years left in him and was on the verge of an England recall at 32 and he was a scrapper..

Souness started the rot we see today and our squad value we were left with was virtually nil.

No way back for him with us - trust me.

[Iceman]

As much as i want ince out. I just hope its handled properly.

[j166429]

Erm....the club is intending to sack the manager, have already lined up two possible replacements, one of which could be our former manager who splits opinion on here like no other.

Short of appointing Wile E Coyote with Roadrunner as his assistant, how much more explosive were you expecting?

Erm...thanks tugay4...I think I'd gathered that.

I'll make it a bit clearer so you can understand.

Apart from alan nixon's report in the mirror (which I saw last night ) there hasn't been much else. Not what I expected after the comments late last night.

[The Prof.]

Souness did waste money but not Davies.

He did pick up some bargains as well....friedal, Tugay, Berg to name three

All 30ish and unlikely to improve or increase in value. There lies the problem with Souness - he's always bought success but at a heck of a price when the cash ran out.

I did think he was a bob on appointment for a lazy underachieving squad though..