[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Good post Jisty, the nail has been hit squarely on the head.

[Eddie]

Is that your stock answer because you can't think of one either but have some blind hope?

I used to think similarly to you but it doesn't work that way. I thought that we should have been able to bring in a 'better' sponsor than Crown - one that might have enhanced the clubs reputation and made the shirts much more marketable but that doesn't seem to be the way of it. There aren't many people outside of Blackburn - and who weren't born in the area - who have any love for the club. (Our overseas friends on this board accepted).

Unless you are in the "Top 4" plus Everton, Aston Villa or from London, the "But it's the PREMIER LEAGUE" argument sounds a little hollow.

I won't quote your entire thing, but I'll try to address most of it. When it comes to why there are so many unspectacular managers in the premiership it is a result of something I mentioned earlier: English clubs are very reluctant to select non-British managers. The success ratio for non-British managers is no worse than British managers, it's probably actually better, but still the list drawn up of managers for any particular job that becomes available will be almost exclusively British (plus a couple foreigners who have been here before, eg Houllier).

I use the Premiership draw factor because I'm well aware of its existence. You hear it talked about by foreign media, players and coaches, I've spoken to current players and coaches about it and I've never spoken to someone involved in the game who hasn't said that it is somewhere they would like to play/work at some point (my experience in this is limited to France, but I would be fairly sure it is greater than the majority of posters on here when it comes to foreign football and being involved in a professional set-up).

Why does this not translate to our shirt sponsor? Well there are a number of reasons, but it boils down to one simple factor: whereas a player or manager views the Premiership as the perfect forum in which to show off his talents and make money, a sponsor will look purely at how much exposure the advertising will get them and whether or not it is worth them spending money on. A player will obviously be more interested in larger markets, but a spot at a premiership team is a ticket to the show and if a bigger club isn't interested that will be enough usually. That's why you see players leaving what are much larger clubs to come and play for bottom half premiership sides. A large company would look at our club as a relatively small market, mediocre shirt sales and attendances and little chance of major global exposure apart from when we are on TV. That isn't what a player will see, even if he would prefer Old Trafford to Ewood Park.

How many people abroad have love for the club isn't an issue. Most premiership footballers will have no strong affiliation to the club they play for; they are drawn by the league and the money. We are currently playing Allardyce 40k a week, do you realise how big of a club you would have to manager in Europe for that to be what you earn?

[Steve Moss]

Allardyce has done a workmanlike job despite the mess he was handed. I look forward to seeing the team he builds over the summer.

[Hughesy]

Mancini did apply in December so actually the answer is yes. He would have come in December.

Says who? Prove it...

[DE.]

He thinks Nicko told him... if so then OK. He still hasn't said why Mancini would have done a better job than Allardyce.

[Eddie]

There's no way to prove that he would have been better, he's obviously just of the opinion that a manager who has achieved what he has in Italy would have done the job.

[DE.]

I want to hear from Vinjay, not you.

[BRFC1995]

And so I add Eddie to Vinjay and Rover6 to my ignore list.

just discovered the ignore option, so much better to only read positive like minded posts,.......................sams done a great job, end of.

anyone that argues differently is thick, end of.

[Eddie]

Clearly that makes this a personal issue rather than a discussion of the topic itself.

[DE.]

I'm interested to know why Vinjay, or anyone else, would think Mancini would have done a better job than Sam from December onwards. Mancini's managerial career has developed in a country with a totally different style of football, generally surrounded by world class players and plenty of cash to spend. All things that Rovers don't have. Meanwhile, Sam's career has seen him work his way through the English leagues, including at one point taking a fairly poor Bolton outfit and making them European contenders.

It seems obvious who the better choice would be.

[Guest Vinjay606]

just discovered the ignore option, so much better to only read positive like minded posts,.......................sams done a great job, end of.

anyone that argues differently is thick, end of.

Well that's the whole point of joining a debate centred forum isn't it? To agree with everyone on anything.

I'm not a hypocrite who suddenly thinks BFS is a magnificent long term appointment overnight. I din't want him in the summer and I don't want him now...at least not in the long term. In the short term I will tolerate it as I don't hate the man.

I will use Kidd and Hart in my response if the bar is set so low that even they can keep a side up. There's no reason why a 3 time Serie A winner (or 2 depending on how you see it) like Mancini can't do the same. The players would have been much more impressed by a man of Mancini's reputation as well. It's no wonder people like Cruz wants to leave if BFS is picked ahead of men like that. BFS has done nothing to be placed in the same sentence as a man of Mancini's stature.

[Eddie]

I think you mean contenders for Europe rather than European contenders. Mancini has won silverware with three teams in Italy and whilst they are all relatively big names (although Fiorentina are not what they once were) that is still an achievement. He's one of Inter's most successful managers ever. Now that may not be as impressive to you as getting Bolton to finish 6th, but I certainly think it is a CV worth looking at and I don't think you can be too critical of anyone who thinks that he would make a capable premiership manager.

[DE.]

I've never said Mancini wouldn't be capable of being a premiership manager, nor am I criticising Vinjay for saying that.

What I'm saying is that if the choice was between he and Sam in December, Sam was the correct choice. Mancini is an unproven quantity, and December would have been the wrong time to take another risk. Vinjay seems to be suggesting we should have picked Mancini instead of Sam, I totally disagree.

[Eddie]

Safer choice perhaps, but you can't possibly say correct as we will never know what Mancini would have done.

[DE.]

I can and will say it was the correct choice. Given the circumstances appointing Mancini would have been a tremendous risk that could have backfired worse than Ince. The board made the logical choice and it was the right one, however, I'm still not convinced Mancini was in the frame, especially considering we appointed Allardyce 24 hours after we sacked Ince.

[Hughesy]

James Milner speaks out about sam: Toon lost out by sacking sam

[Guest Vinjay606]

James Milner speaks out about sam: Toon lost out by sacking sam

I get the impression though that Newcastle fans would rather be relegated than have BFS in charge. Someone on here quoted one of their fans saying something like they would rather go down and keep Shearer as manager than have Kinnear.

I have voiced my opinions on BFS but wouldn't go as far to say I would rather see BRFC relegated than have him as manager.

[Mozzer]

what more does sam allardyce have to do to stop getting critised..dont people realise what a good job he is doing..

he turned an absolute shambles of a team who couldnt defend to save their lives into a team-a team well organised and actually knows how to defend..ok we have some disappointing results-but were doing alright considering the team he has too choose from..

im not using injuries as an excuse..but using your best central defender upfront shows how much they have affected us-yet he still gets critised...

hes doing the best with what he has to choose from and i cant wait for next season when the players will be more his doing rather then paul ince's...

[FourLaneBlue]

Was there any suggestion of Mancini actually being interested in December? I do not remember that and would be highly skeptical he would be willing to risk his reputation after three Serie A titles at a club five points away from safety.

Whether he would have been a better appointment in the summer is irrelevant as surely just about anybody would have been a better bet than the woeful Ince. Whether Mancini would have been able to do much with so little monetary backing is however debatable. Sam does have experience of bargain basement signings, players out of favour with their clubs and utilising loan signings. It is telling that our two best signings this season were the two Sam brought in.

I am rather amused that some people are still peddling the rubbish that we might have survived under Ince. We were getting worse and worse, he had lost the dressing room and was out of his depth. To be fair though for that the players have a lot to answer for as well.

Eddie...Sam was the best choice in December BECAUSE he was the safer choice. BECAUSE he was the logical choice. We were five points adrift of safety. It was no time to experiment. No time to "give it a go". West Ham appointed Zola which looks inspired so far but they were in nothing like the position that we were. The club was in a downward spiral. Say what you like (and you do...often ) but for Sam to have turned that around and for us to be just about safe with games still remaining is an excellent achievement. The club was in a mess in December and this board was a microcosm with the infighting and hostility.

Next season...if we still play hoofball rubbish without style, without a Plan B and keep conceding 3 or 4 goals to every half-decent team we come up against then I might well join in the catcalls.

For now though...thanks Sam. Very close to be an excellent rescue mission accomplished ahead of schedule.

Oh and waggy...just support your team. Go back to Ewood. Moan all you like when there (it is after all an East Lancs tradition to never be happy unless we have something to moan about) but do not desert your club anymore.

[47er]

Diouf certainly hasn't been a resounding success for me. He's done a job, but he's unspectacular. If he wasn't a new signing he'd be getting a lot more criticism than he is.

Whilst that statistic is encouraging, it's also misleading. Almost every side in the premiership has had a huge variation in form from one half to the other and I'm sure West Ham, Villa, City, Everton, Hull, Spurs and even the likes of Botlon and Boro would love to take one half and carry it over into the other. The fact remains that this second half of the season has seen some of the worst form from a large group of premiership sides the league has ever seen and, for the most part, that has been who we have picked points up from. Now there isn't anything wrong with that, but anyone who thinks that this sort of form is sustainable or could lead to a top-half finish in the future is looking at the situation in a very one-dimensional manner. Our upturn in form (or poor performance in the first half if you would prefer) is obviously a more interesting statistic because a change of manager is involved, but there are reasons for all of the sides who have seen such drastic changes and if you are going to use that sort of a statistic as a way of putting a blanket over what is happening at the moment then you need to do a lot number crunching.

So you're looking for a "spectacular signing" in the January transfer window for 2M? And this is the sort of criterion you have in mind when judging the manager?

Absolutely barking.

[philipl]

I am struggling here.

The time to have gone foreign was the summer when the horrible Ince arrived instead.

When we were 5 points from safety, appointing a manager with a year in year out record of producing top ten finishes in the Orem with limited resources was a no brained irrespective of Mancini's interest.

Sam has done exactly what Sam has previously done. Produced a top ten run of results despite a bad run of injuries and jr howlers that have gained us 11 points on the relegation places in 18 games.

For that, vinjay, eddie, rover6 and me are all truly grateful because we can still post silly messages on a premier league club message board.

[nicko]

Just on Mancini...

He applied and was interviewed.

The board chose Sam Allardyce.

I don't really think there is any doubt that was a sound choice.

But once the job of staying up is done there should be a time for reflection - and figuring out where you go from here.

Is it survival football or good football?

Serious question. Serious issue.

[Alan75]

To many teams are playing survival football, and unfortunately to many fans accept negative football as the norm, just so long as their club is still in the top flight.

[JAL]

Just on Mancini...

He applied and was interviewed.

The board chose Sam Allardyce.

I don't really think there is any doubt that was a sound choice.

But once the job of staying up is done there should be a time for reflection - and figuring out where you go from here.

Is it survival football or good football?

Serious question. Serious issue.

The way our board shaped thermselves last summer it doesnt inspire confidence in them this time around.

[tony gale's mic]

Just on Mancini...

He applied and was interviewed.

The board chose Sam Allardyce.

I don't really think there is any doubt that was a sound choice.

But once the job of staying up is done there should be a time for reflection - and figuring out where you go from here.

Is it survival football or good football?

Serious question. Serious issue.

Successful survival football is always better to watch than failing flowing football though. I'd much rather watch our team play hoofball and create chances/score goals than pass the ball around West Brom style and keep losing games.

Put it this way - I think we know which style out of Ince and Allardyce we prefer watching.