[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[gillibrand]

If we finish in the top half next season some people will be complaining that we are not in Europe and we need a foreign manager to achieve this.

[Eddie]

No and if you think that you don't understand the concerns that some people are voicing. Don't belittle them by talking nonsense.

[imy9]

Eddie can you name a manager (foreign or domestic) who has proven that they can work within our budget?

If someone asked me this question there would be two answers:

1. Big Sam

2. Mark Hughes

[gumboots]

No and if you think that you don't understand the concerns that some people are voicing. Don't belittle them by talking nonsense.

Actually Eddie that's not nonsense - it's a statement of fact. There are always soome who will complain whoever the manager is, whatever kind of job we do and wherever we are in the league. that's just footabll fans for you. There are always those who have to have their scapegoat who gets all the blame when things go wrong and none of the credit when things go right. the guy behind me spent the entire time Lucas Neill was at the club moaning about every kick, good bad or indifferent. Now he moans at Pedersen before he even touches the ball. He sounds pretty silly if Pedersen plays a good ball as he did for McCarthy's goal, but he does it just the same.

And imy all French managers have to work within the budget that's set at the start of the season. whether they'd keep us in the premier league on a set budget like that is up for debate. Doubtless Eddie thinks they would. Having seen the standard of the French league, I'm not so sure.

[Amo]

Some people, such as Eddie & waggy, are prejudiced against Big Sam. Already the knives are being sharpened, when his job this season was to save us from relegation - which he looks close to achieving. I agree with gillibrand, if we finish 10th next season, they'll probably accuse him of jeopardizing our European prospects with his ugly hoof-ball.

[sambo]

People are saying we're only staying up because of luck.

In the last 3-5 years or so, SSN reported the average points needed to stay up was 36.

We're on 37 now. If we get 40 its not luck, its just that we did enough.

Unless people are suggesting that the teams who stay up each year are 'lucky'?

If you get 40 points you deserve to stay up.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I said that when Sam was appointed we literally had the footballing equivalent of Mt Everest to climb....I am so happy to say we are nearly at the summit now.

He's nearly completed his provisional job requirement and that being survival in this league...nothing more nothing less.We ALL knew the football would not be the greatest but with the poor and at times de-motivated squad he inherited from the rank awful Ince its been a good return in my book.

In all honesty what gives certain individuals the right to criticise when in our present position its crystal clear basic survival takes precident over class and style of football?......like others have rightly stated we need to wait for the Summer and to see who Sam brings into this declining squad.

Then again, if the Ewood money men dont back him who's to blame then?...........

[Eddie]

Eddie can you name a manager (foreign or domestic) who has proven that they can work within our budget?

If someone asked me this question there would be two answers:

1. Big Sam

2. Mark Hughes

Curbishley. Most of the French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese managers who have achieved any success. Even a club with as little money as ourselves outspends most European sides. There are some very talented and knowledgeable managers throughout Europe who do a very good job for their teams. You never really know if they would be a success in the premiership, but that is true of almost every manager when he takes over a new team. If you really think that the number of managers capable of doing it is limited to two then we are in serious trouble.

Gumboots, you know very well that most of the people on here are not perennial moaners and that those who have concerns about what is happening at the club at present aren't doing it simply because they want to find an issue. As for your comment about the quality of the French league, that isn't really the fault of the managers as it is a result of the fact that the richer leagues attract the best French and foreign players. Despite not being as attractive a proposition there are several French clubs building very nice sides and playing very good football.

Topman, I have no particular dislike or prejudice when it comes to Allardyce. I would actually quite happily bet that my opinion of him before he became the Blackburn manager was one of the better ones out of Rovers fans. I didn't strongly dislike him before he arrived, but I haven't warmed to him all that much since he has taken charge. I haven't completely formed an opinion of him yet, this summer and next season will decide that, but I'm just not as excited or pleased with what I am seeing as others seem to be.

[gillibrand]

Exactly if we can achieve a permanent place in the Premiership on the finances that seem to be available to us then he is a great manager.

[gumboots]

People are saying we're only staying up because of luck.

In the last 3-5 years or so, SSN reported the average points needed to stay up was 36.

We're on 37 now. If we get 40 its not luck, its just that we did enough.

Unless people are suggesting that the teams who stay up each year are 'lucky'?

If you get 40 points you deserve to stay up.

Hence why I said that those who said that we were lucky because other teams around us are rubbish should look at the injuries. The 2 balance one another out and in the end you usually get what your efforts deserve. You do need an element of luck in some games but yu usually get your share of the bad stuff too. there's a quote somewhere that says "The harder I work, the luckier I get" Says it all really.

Eddie i didn't suggest that the poor standard of the French league is down to poor management. I myself know the merits of Gourcuff at Lorient. However, it is very diferent managing in our league because many of the leagues operate the director of football/ first team coach system. Working in that is very different from the english model which is still employed by most clubs of the manager being the guy in control of all aspects. Some clubs are moving towards the Continental model and it may be that that leads to more continental managers coming over here and doing well. And I didn't suggest those on here are perpetual moaners and you are quite within your rights to have doubts about the manager. I merely pointed out that there will always be a high proportion of football fans who are never satisfied. It's the nature of being a football fan.

[Eddie]

Exactly if we can achieve a permanent place in the Premiership on the finances that seem to be available to us then he is a great manager.

So Souness is a great manager then? I was a big Souness fan, but wouldn't put him in the great category.

[LeChuck]

People are saying we're only staying up because of luck.

In the last 3-5 years or so, SSN reported the average points needed to stay up was 36.

We're on 37 now. If we get 40 its not luck, its just that we did enough.

Unless people are suggesting that the teams who stay up each year are 'lucky'?

If you get 40 points you deserve to stay up.

Agree entirely, it's disappointing to read this 'lucky' rubbish on here when the facts are plain for all to see.

[Blue n White Rover]

Curbishley. Most of the French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese managers who have achieved any success. Even a club with as little money as ourselves outspends most European sides. There are some very talented and knowledgeable managers throughout Europe who do a very good job for their teams. You never really know if they would be a success in the premiership, but that is true of almost every manager when he takes over a new team. If you really think that the number of managers capable of doing it is limited to two then we are in serious trouble.

Name them then??

Curbishley was lucky to keep West Ham up because of Carlos Tevez, he single handedly kept them up. His quality, not down to Curbishley, although he may taker some credit.

[Eddie]

I was really mentioning Curbishley because of his time at Charlton, not because of what he did at West Ham. I don't really feel like drawing up such a speculative list to be quite honest.

[tony gale's mic]

Most of the French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese managers who have achieved any success. Even a club with as little money as ourselves outspends most European sides.

Poor comparison. We're competing against other Premier League sides not other sides in the French/Italian/German leagues etc.

[Eddie]

No, it isn't. A manager who has an eye for talent and brings in very talented players when working on a small budget can do that anywhere. Obviously you have to account for a slight inflation for English clubs when they sign people, but the principle is still the same. A good coach is a good coach.

[tony gale's mic]

No, it isn't. A manager who has an eye for talent and brings in very talented players when working on a small budget can do that anywhere. Obviously you have to account for a slight inflation for English clubs when they sign people, but the principle is still the same. A good coach is a good coach.

Yes but because the other clubs here have so much more money then it's harder to achieve on a small budget here than it is in say Holland or France. Over there the competition is not as tough so your £2m signing who comes in is much more likely to play a prominent role than the £2m players that we sign. Surely that goes without saying..

It's a much fairer comparison if you want to compare across Europe to see the difference between where we are in the League spending table and where we are in the league and see the difference between us and other European sides. That'd take some time obviously but would produce much more accurate results.

[imy9]

Curbishley. Most of the French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese managers who have achieved any success. Even a club with as little money as ourselves outspends most European sides. There are some very talented and knowledgeable managers throughout Europe who do a very good job for their teams. You never really know if they would be a success in the premiership, but that is true of almost every manager when he takes over a new team. If you really think that the number of managers capable of doing it is limited to two then we are in serious trouble.

Gumboots, you know very well that most of the people on here are not perennial moaners and that those who have concerns about what is happening at the club at present aren't doing it simply because they want to find an issue. As for your comment about the quality of the French league, that isn't really the fault of the managers as it is a result of the fact that the richer leagues attract the best French and foreign players. Despite not being as attractive a proposition there are several French clubs building very nice sides and playing very good football.

Topman, I have no particular dislike or prejudice when it comes to Allardyce. I would actually quite happily bet that my opinion of him before he became the Blackburn manager was one of the better ones out of Rovers fans. I didn't strongly dislike him before he arrived, but I haven't warmed to him all that much since he has taken charge. I haven't completely formed an opinion of him yet, this summer and next season will decide that, but I'm just not as excited or pleased with what I am seeing as others seem to be.

Curbs? Is he not similar to Big Sam, i.e. He did a good job at Charlton, over a sustained period then (different to Sam) was clearly out of his depth at West Ham when, given an extortionate amount of money he purchased duds and failed to get results, I also dont recall Charlton being known as a footballing side (may be wrong).

Unless the European managers have had success in the Premier league then it is not worth risking. Alain Perrin (Portsmouth), Paul Le Guen and the Frenchman at Spurs (name eludes me) have shown that "quality continental managers" have failed at this level, Ramos was a top European manager but failed at Spurs, there are tons of examples. Sam is proven at the Premier league level and has shown that he can make clubs top 8 clubs with a small budget.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Poor comparison. We're competing against other Premier League sides not other sides in the French/Italian/German leagues etc.

I completely disagree. The vast bulk of the players we buy are from these nations; therefore we are in direct competition with them.

This IMO is where Premiership clubs such as Rovers are going wrong- we can compete with the vast majority of Europe’s clubs ( except for about a dozen), we can pay more wages so why not use this to our advantage? Rather than falling into trap of competing against the rest of the premiershipfor players.

[Eddie]

Curbs? Is he not similar to Big Sam, i.e. He did a good job at Charlton, over a sustained period then (different to Sam) was clearly out of his depth at West Ham when, given an extortionate amount of money he purchased duds and failed to get results, I also dont recall Charlton being known as a footballing side (may be wrong).

Unless the European managers have had success in the Premier league then it is not worth risking. Alain Perrin (Portsmouth), Paul Le Guen and the Frenchman at Spurs (name eludes me) have shown that "quality continental managers" have failed at this level, Ramos was a top European manager but failed at Spurs, there are tons of examples. Sam is proven at the Premier league level and has shown that he can make clubs top 8 clubs with a small budget.

I didn't think Curbishley should have got the job, but you asked me to name managers who have shown that they can work on a similar budget to ours and he most certainly has done that.

There are just as many foreign managers who have shown themselves to be excellent in the premiership.

Agree with Bazza's post.

[tony gale's mic]

I completely disagree. The vast bulk of the players we buy are from these nations; therefore we are in direct competition with them.

This IMO is where Premiership clubs such as Rovers are going wrong- we can compete with the vast majority of Europe’s clubs ( except for about a dozen), we can pay more wages so why not use this to our advantage? Rather than falling into trap of competing against the rest of the premiershipfor players.

You've got the wrong end of the stick of what I was trying to say. We are in direct competition with the other teams in our league. We approach player X with a wage of 30k a week when he's at another club in, say, Holland, then if he's reasonably well rated then there's numerous Premier League clubs that can offer 40-50k a week for that player when we can't. Same principle goes with transfer fees too so we have two financial hurdles to overcome before we actually sign the player. And it's our performance against these other Premier League sides that our season is judged against, not the European teams. That's even before you get started on the weak pound and how that's going to affect our league's position in being able to pay quite such high wages and transfer fees too...

Of course we can go for the route of picking players that aren't that well rated but obviously that's a risky route, sometimes you can end up with a Chris Samba but sometimes you can end up with an Aaron Mokoena.

[gumboots]

I completely disagree. The vast bulk of the players we buy are from these nations; therefore we are in direct competition with them.

This IMO is where Premiership clubs such as Rovers are going wrong- we can compete with the vast majority of Europe’s clubs ( except for about a dozen), we can pay more wages so why not use this to our advantage? Rather than falling into trap of competing against the rest of the premiershipfor players.

Because if they are any good then we are in competition with other premiership clubs. Once you express an interest the agents are touting their player to any other club who'll listen. Unearth a new gem and suddenly clubs in London or in European places want him. Which club would you choose if you weren't a Rovers fan?

[Stuart]

For a club in our position, we are in the market for taking a gamble on unknown foreign players simply because they are cheaper than British players of the same quality. For me Sam and his network are the best for finding these people. Where we absolutely cannot take a chance is with the manager. We need experience. With that as the criterion I'd like to hear suggestions from those opposed to Sam as realistic experienced alternatives, given our financial status. And please don't tell me that Curbishley would be better.

[thenodrog]

For anyone questioning the long ball tactics, what is the alternative?? We're devoid of any creativity in the middle of the park, Mokoena, Andrews can't string 2 passes together.. The jury is still out on Grella and Tugay's legs are going. Our best bet to stay up was to tighten it up at the back (Sam has achieved that) , and nick the odd win from a set piece or long ball forward(Also achieved that).

I think Sam is doing an excellent job with what he has to work with; hopefully he'll be given some money to spend in the summer and we can sort some of the problems we have.

Correct. With our current squad logic dictates (and especially so after observing Ince's failed square passing game doctrine) that our best option is to by-pass midfield as much as possible. Problem is that we are down to one fit striker who is not the best at playing the target man role, but at the moment needs must. It's a shame that he's injured but a fully fit RSC would have made us much easier on the eye.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Because if they are any good then we are in competition with other premiership clubs. Once you express an interest the agents are touting their player to any other club who'll listen. Unearth a new gem and suddenly clubs in London or in European places want him. Which club would you choose if you weren't a Rovers fan?

There are around 12-14 clubs in the Premiership who have more clout than us & around a dozen on the continent. That only leaves us with the pick of about 500 players- currenly playing in Europes top leagues. We need to buy young talent on the cheap if possible to replace dolpers like andrews/Moko- anyone from lesser leagues such as the Belgian, Dutch & portugese leagues could do a better job, whilst having to pay out much less money.