[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[Ricky]

Eddie you're talking nonsense about remembering a worse run of results, you say you've been supporting Rovers for 15 years, well the run under ince was our worst in over 40 years!!!!!

[gillibrand]

I thought Curbishley was reluctant to travel north of the M25 Circular? Also next season will depend on how much money Sam has to spend as much as it does on Sam's style of football!

[Hughesy]

Eddie you're talking nonsense about remembering a worse run of results, you say you've been supporting Rovers for 15 years, well the run under ince was our worst in over 40 years!!!!!

That alone says why he got sacked.

Allardyce has done a good job since he came in, yes he has targetted certain games, but in general it has worked. Next season is the acid test, our squad is ageing, cracks have appeared all over and its up to him to sort it out the best way possible given the limited resources.

Lets give him that chance. He has earnt it IF he keeps us up. Until he does 'an Ince' Im not too worried. I honestly think had we got Sam in the summer, we would currently be safe in the top 10. Give him time lads, get behind your club and support them through thick & thin.

[Majiball]

We should have got Zola and Clarke!!! LOL

[T4E]

That alone says why he got sacked.

Allardyce has done a good job since he came in, yes he has targetted certain games, but in general it has worked. Next season is the acid test, our squad is ageing, cracks have appeared all over and its up to him to sort it out the best way possible given the limited resources.

Lets give him that chance. He has earnt it IF he keeps us up. Until he does 'an Ince' Im not too worried. I honestly think had we got Sam in the summer, we would currently be safe in the top 10. Give him time lads, get behind your club and support them through thick & thin.

Agree with this. I am very interested to see what Sam does this Summer. As I've said before my faith in him is waning a bit, what he does in the market this window will go a long way towards revealing what he thinks he can do with us next season. I'm hoping for some excitement. I'm not hoping for Joey Barton or Mark Viduka.

[tcj_jones]

I'm sure Curbishley would have taken the job. I'm sure Peter Reid would have been interested. Venables? Souness? The list is long of managers who have shown themselves capable of handling a team in a similar situation, not that I would have wanted any of them appointed, but I didn't want Allardyce either. I'm sure under any of them (Peter Reid maybe being the exception) we would have stayed up, but obviously as they didn't get the job I can never prove it nor can you disprove it.

That might be the case Eddie, but I for one would not have felt nearly as confident in the other manager you mention. Let's have a look at them:

- Curbishley: I'll admit, I actually advocated Curbs ahead of Ince and Allardyce last summer on the basis of his career at Charlton where he got them promoted and then kept them in the league on a shoestring budget. However, his recent record isn't overly impressive having been fired for involving West Ham in a relegation battle after spending millions on new players.

- Reid: only just avoided relegation with a Sunderland side that should never have been down there, and that was seven years ago now. Since then he had a relatively unsuccessful stint at Coventry in the Championship. In any case, wasn't he the Thai national coach by this point?

- Souness: as much as I like him and would have wanted him to succeed, was two games away from the sack when Newcastle poached him. He left behind a poor squad after falling out with numerous players and then had a spectacularly unsuccessful stint at Newcastle.

- Venables: His last managerial role was at Leeds UTD where he failed to save a club, much like our own, which looked set for relegation. That was six years ago now. I cannot even remember his last Premier League job before then - he's been away for far too long.

- Mancini: I'll include Mancini, because apparently he applied when Sam did. He had a very successful stint at Inter where he had top players and huge financial resources and where he could afford to play attractive football. Trying to get an awful team to play attractive football - sound familiar?

Finally, let's look at Allardyce, a man who enjoyed extraordinary success at Bolton on a shoestring budget and where he fought successfully against relegation. His spell as Newcastle boss isn't much to go by either, as he was barely in charge for any time whatsoever and didn't even do a particularly bad job.

[T4E]

- Curbishley: I'll admit, I actually advocated Curbs ahead of Ince and Allardyce last summer on the basis of his career at Charlton where he got them promoted and then kept them in the league on a shoestring budget. However, his recent record isn't overly impressive having been fired for involving West Ham in a relegation battle after spending millions on new players.

Finally, let's look at Allardyce, a man who enjoyed extraordinary success at Bolton on a shoestring budget and where he fought successfully against relegation. His spell as Newcastle boss isn't much to go by either, as he was barely in charge for any time whatsoever and didn't even do a particularly bad job.

All in all I agree with your post Trev, but out of interest what is it that makes the above two so different? They look remarkably similar to me.

[tony gale's mic]

All in all I agree with your post Trev, but out of interest what is it that makes the above two so different? They look remarkably similar to me.

For me the main difference between the two were:

Allardyce achieved more at Bolton than Curbs did at Charlton

Allardyce didn't get Newcastle involved in a relegation battle

Allardyce would settle in more easily since he knows this part of the country better etc

[Majiball]

Look big Sam is a good manager he's done us proud keeping us up (hopefully), but as quite a few said prior to his arrival his strenght at Bolton came from his backroom team.

Roden, Brown, Sbragia, That short guy who's Mr ben's assitant sammy lee. All of those names are seriously highly thought of coaches, two have gone on to be managers in the premiership. Now a lot of the other support staff have also moved on to other clubs in the premiership. Sam had a seriously high quality back room team at Bolton ( not saying we don't have some good ones) But we don't have this, yet.

This is the area for me that needs work, I want to see more quality added to the backroom team, Sbragia will hopefully get the can and Sam can persuade him to come to rovers.

Sam's just in the door, with one aim which we should achieve and hopefully once mathematically impossible Sam can make the changes (finances as always) he feels are required. But he will need to make changes to his team as Rovers will not spring for 30+ staff that he had a bolton. Both our football coaches McDonald and Robinson came from league 1, Robinson is young and learning and on a 4 year contract (I believe), mcdonald a man sam knows and trusts, but I do feel we need better quality here, Clarke at west ham is showing exactly what a top quality coach is worth.

Last game I saw live was wigan, while watching the warm-up I was gobsmacked that the coach was showing the players what to do each time, the team should be drilled so that there are no stops so the full effect of the session is transferred. I've been very dissappointted with our warm-ups this year they are rubbish, shooting in a line as the end of the warm-up is not good enough. Fail to prepare, prepare to fail. We've lost heavily everytime we do that shooting warm-up, in fact we've always conceded early when doing it, I wonder why.

Sam's earnt another season now we just have to watch and wait, but the quality of the football must improve next season (I know we beat wigan, but as a purist its like being stabbed everytime we lob it north). You can buy any player in the world but a good coach can improve all your players whats worth more?

If Sam adds a few over the summer and ships a few then we know that new ideas have been brought in as we definitly need them.

[T4E]

Sam was manager of Newcastle from May 2007 to January 2008, so started the season with them and left them mid table.

Curbishley was appointed manager of West Ham in December 2006 when they were in the relegation zone, and he kept them up going on a run of 7 wins from their last 9 games. In 2007-08 he led them to a top 10 finish. He then resigned in September 2008. At no point did he get West Ham involved in a relegation battle.

Agreed on the geography, but I can't see the rest of it.

[tcj_jones]

Haha, not an awful lot I guess! They would have been very similar appointments. I'm ready to discount the rest of the names mentioned as not being viable options for a club in our position, but I will accept that Curbs could have worked just as well.

On the face of it, if you look at their respective league positions, Sam edges it:

Bolton: 7, 8, 6, 8, 17, 16.

Charlton: 13, 11, 7, 12, 14, 9.

It is clear that his project was long term and his success on such a tight budget is quite remarkable.

I guess a lot also comes down to impressions and gut feelings. Some of his players were exciting to watch and brought in for nothing. While I'm sure Curbs did a good job in this respect as well, I don't feel as though he managed it to quite the same extent. Also, Sam's preference for modern technology is well known, he strikes me as a consumate professional, a motivator and a no-nonsense kinda guy. On the otehr hand, I've read numerous accounts from former players that Curbs had a very old fashioned and overly strict approach to man management. Of course, none of this is conclusive, but it all combines to give me an impression that Sam was the better candidate.

[toetoe]

For me the main difference between the two were:

Allardyce achieved more at Bolton than Curbs did at Charlton

Allardyce didn't get Newcastle involved in a relegation battle

Allardyce would settle in more easily since he knows this part of the country better etc

1.Curbishleys results at Charlton are just as impressive as Sams at Bolton

2.Did Curbishley? When Pardew was sacked they was in 18th place,West Ham won 8 out of the 9 last games of the season or something and he saved them. in 07/08 they did mediocre,but wasn't in the relegation battle. Then they won 2 out of the 3 first matches this season,but he resigned because he didn't get the players he wanted.

[Eddie]

Eddie you're talking nonsense about remembering a worse run of results, you say you've been supporting Rovers for 15 years, well the run under ince was our worst in over 40 years!!!!!

I didn't say I remember a worse run, I said I remembered times when things looked worse than they did in November/December.

Curbishley did a better job at West Ham in more difficult circumstances than Allardyce did at Newcastle. Essentially Curbishley came into a worse situation than we were in and pulled off a miracle with a run, that if it had been replicated by us now, would see us challenging for Europe right now. Again, I didn't want Curbishley in December, but to say that Allardyce was the only man for the job and the only man with experience in similar circumstances is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

[tcj_jones]

I didn't say I remember a worse run, I said I remembered times when things looked worse than they did in November/December.

Curbishley did a better job at West Ham in more difficult circumstances than Allardyce did at Newcastle. Essentially Curbishley came into a worse situation than we were in and pulled off a miracle with a run, that if it had been replicated by us now, would see us challenging for Europe right now. Again, I didn't want Curbishley in December, but to say that Allardyce was the only man for the job and the only man with experience in similar circumstances is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

It's hardly a ridiculous assertion. Of those available, who would want to join the club and who have experience in saving a club from relegation in the short term and then building on that success with a shoestring budget, I can see only Allardyce and Curbs as viable options. And, if I remember right, Curbs ruled himself out of the job.

[Eddie]

Before it was "only Allardyce", now it is "Allardyce and Curbishley" and I am sure if I was bothered enough to put forward and support a couple of other names people would eventually accept that they have a good enough track record in similar circumstances. All of that doesn't really matter now though, he got the job. The point is talking about the club moving forward and that is where my main concerns are.

[47er]

I didn't say I remember a worse run, I said I remembered times when things looked worse than they did in November/December.

Curbishley did a better job at West Ham in more difficult circumstances than Allardyce did at Newcastle. Essentially Curbishley came into a worse situation than we were in and pulled off a miracle with a run, that if it had been replicated by us now, would see us challenging for Europe right now. Again, I didn't want Curbishley in December, but to say that Allardyce was the only man for the job and the only man with experience in similar circumstances is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

Well you tried to name others and failed dismally. We have no idea whether any of the names you mentioned were ready to take the job or not, you simply assert that they would have been with no evidence at all. Two of them were complete non-starters anyway and Venables has been out of it for too long.You assert that Curbs did a better job than Sam at Newcastle but that is simply another of the assertions you throw around like confetti.

You dislike Allardyce with a vengeance and give him no credit for anything. Furthermore you'll argue the point forever so I'll give up. I'll just enjoy staying up, a real achievement by a real manager.

Referring to your last post you're not just concerned with moving the club forward, you're intent on underminbing the present manager.. You've already made the ludicrous assertion that the speed with which we recovered once Ince was sacked shows what a good squad we have and that almost anyone could have achieved it.

[Majiball]

There both good managers, both have done what rovers needed them to do and in turn could have done it with us, However.

Curb's said no, publically

Sam said yes and was the only one asked.

It doesn't matter how many viable options there where we only ever had one, the one choosen by the club.

Perhaps next we can debate where would Rovers be now if Sven had come????

[gillibrand]

I always wanted Big Sam as our manager and could not believe it when he signed for us, I used to follow him when he was at Bolton and thought he would be great for us if Hughes moved on, and he is proving me correct in my views, plus he lives locally so no home sick problems!

[DE.]

The problem, as far as those who hate Allardyce go, is that if he wins he got lucky and if he loses it's his fault. The man can't win.

[Hughesy]

1.Curbishleys results at Charlton are just as impressive as Sams at Bolton

Why?

Did Charlton finish top 8 for 4 seasons in a row? Did they get in to Europe? Did they get to a cup final?

Didnt think so. How can you seriously say they were just as impressive?

[toetoe]

Why?

Did Charlton finish top 8 for 4 seasons in a row? Did they get in to Europe? Did they get to a cup final?

Didnt think so. How can you seriously say they were just as impressive?

Matt Holland was a key figure in the Charlton team for years,ffs.

No, honestly, i think Charlton had a incredible mediocre squad all the years Curbishley was with them. Allardyce had better players(which of course is down to him buying good players).

[gumboots]

The problem, as far as those who hate Allardyce go, is that if he wins he got lucky and if he loses it's his fault. The man can't win.

Not quite true. I can't stand the guy but I've tried to give credit where it's due. He did get lucky against Spurs because we were awful but he didn't get lucky against Wigan or Fulham where the players worked hard for their results. On the whole I don't see who, in the circumstances we were in, the position we were in, who was available and willing to come and would not be shocked by the situation but would roll his sleeves up and get on with the job, who would not care about players liking him, who would manage to kep us out of real danger even with most of our first choice players missing, we could have got who could have done a better job. I don't think Curbishley would have done, although i respect what he has achieved. And I don't think a foreign manager with no experience of managing in england would have been likely to either. Not that they are not good and perfectly capable of coping with the demands of our league but not coming into the mess our club was in.

[DE.]

Okay, well, the majority of Allardyce detractors, then. I don't have an issue with people disliking him, but I do take issue with people who say his task was "easy" and refuse to give him any credit whatsoever.

[gillibrand]

How can anyone say his task was easy, we are not totally safe yet and if we had kept with Ince we would already have been relegated!

[gumboots]

How can anyone say his task was easy, we are not totally safe yet and if we had kept with Ince we would already have been relegated!

Precisely. I suggest that those who think anyone could have done it were not at Wigan. to experience and understand the full depths of the mess we were in you had to be there. Normal, mild-mannered rovers fans were either in despair or so angry you could feel their anger as they left the ground. To turn around the fans (to the point where they turned out as they did for the return Wigan game) as well as the team has been a major achievement