[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[waggy]

Benni has been a much better player than RSC throughout his career. Anyone who argues otherwise is plain wrong.

i thought we were talking in the present,benni is a lazy sod,who sulks for most of the season,rsc showed his hunger and worth under hughes,and wanted out.for that you all forget what a bloody good player he is

[BRFC1995]

RSC scored 4 goals for us last season. Benni scored 13 goals for us in 20 starts. Enough said.

saying 13 in 20 starts sounds like the greatest strike rate ever, please throw in the 17-18 sub appearances where he scored..........tarting the stats to make him sound like the world beater he ain't.

[waynerovers]

as a natural finisher, benni is by far the better player, in terms of all round game roque is the better player, factor in career achievements and you have to put benni ahead. It all well and good saying roque is better but he's 27? and benni is 32? i think, 5 years ago benni was knocking united out of the champions league and winning it. He's the better player

Benni has scored 198 goals in 444 games in his career with a goal percentage per game of 0.44%, santa cruz has scored 91 in 317 with a goal percentage per game of 0.29%, the facts speak for themselves.

[tony gale's mic]

i thought we were talking in the present,benni is a lazy sod,who sulks for most of the season,rsc showed his hunger and worth under hughes,and wanted out.for that you all forget what a bloody good player he is

RSC showed his worth and hunger for one season, and then scored 4 league goals in 17 starts and 4 sub appearances last season. He also never scored more than 5 league goals in a season before he came to Rovers.

Benni scored 10 league goals in 18 starts and 10 sub appearances last season, after previously proving his worth under Hughes and also having had numerous good seasons throughout his career.

Roberts despite his limited abilities scored 7 league goals in 20 starts and 7 sub appearances last season.

So remind me, which one is the lazy sod?

[RibbleValleyRover]

RSC showed his worth and hunger for one season, and then scored 4 league goals in 17 starts and 4 sub appearances last season. He also never scored more than 5 league goals in a season before he came to Rovers.

Benni scored 10 league goals in 18 starts and 10 sub appearances last season, after previously proving his worth under Hughes and also having had numerous good seasons throughout his career.

Roberts despite his limited abilities scored 7 league goals in 20 starts and 7 sub appearances last season.

So remind me, which one is the lazy sod?

Keep in mind Roque is a different type of striker he needs people to create chances for him. If we had Bentley in the side i reckon Roque would have scored more goals than he did last season even through he didn't feature much due to injury.

Sam's comments on Talksport:

http://talksport.net/index.asp?id=107632&c=&t=#media

[joey_big_nose]

Keep in mind Roque is a different type of striker he needs people to create chances for him. If we had Bentley in the side i reckon Roque would have scored more goals than he did last season even through he didn't feature much due to injury.

Sam's comments on Talksport:

http://talksport.net/index.asp?id=107632&c=&t=#media

I would say that Benni is much more dependent on others creating stuff for him than Benni. Roque has power, height, a bit of pace, good technique.

McCarthy has oustanding technique and finishing, but no pace or strength or height. He needs someone to create the chance for him in the box. He doesn't score individual goals (excepet for that incredible effort against Arsenal in the FA cup two and a half years ago...)

[broadsword]

Did Hughesy just say McCarthy is better than RSC??

Bloody hell, get a grip mate.

What is he on?

RSC showed his worth and hunger for one season, and then scored 4 league goals in 17 starts and 4 sub appearances last season. He also never scored more than 5 league goals in a season before he came to Rovers.

Benni scored 10 league goals in 18 starts and 10 sub appearances last season, after previously proving his worth under Hughes and also having had numerous good seasons throughout his career.

Roberts despite his limited abilities scored 7 league goals in 20 starts and 7 sub appearances last season.

So remind me, which one is the lazy sod?

Which one couldn't get himself into proper condition to finish a game despite not being injuured?

[LeChuck]

You have to love the erratic behaviour here sometimes.

Some people are now arguing that 'fat and lazy' Benni 'McDonalds' McCarthy is better than Roque 'best since Shearer' Santa Cruz.

It's admirable, but at the same time completely bonkers.

[tony gale's mic]

Yep, judging strikers by their goal records is completely and utterly bonkers.

[JAL]

I would say that Benni is much more dependent on others creating stuff for him than Benni. Roque has power, height, a bit of pace, good technique.

McCarthy has oustanding technique and finishing, but no pace or strength or height. He needs someone to create the chance for him in the box. He doesn't score individual goals (excepet for that incredible effort against Arsenal in the FA cup two and a half years ago...)

I take you to task about Benni having no strength, thats completely untrue. Benni is as strong as an ox more than capable of holding or shielding the ball from the biggest of defenders out there j_b_n.

[LeChuck]

Yep, judging strikers by their goal records is completely and utterly bonkers.

I take it you were over the moon when Fowler arrived last summer then?

I won't argue that Benni has (so far) had a better career than Roque, but surely there is no question who is the better player at present.

[Kelbo]

I take it you were over the moon when Fowler arrived last summer then?

I won't argue that Benni has (so far) had a better career than Roque, but surely there is no question who is the better player at present.

At present got to be Benni, Santa Cruz hasnt played since January!!!!

[tony gale's mic]

I take it you were over the moon when Fowler arrived last summer then?

I won't argue that Benni has (so far) had a better career than Roque, but surely there is no question who is the better player at present.

What a nonsense comparison. If Fowler had been scoring in the Premier League fairly regularly just before he arrived, I would have been happy.

Is the better player the one who scored 4 in 21 games last season?

RSC has had one great season his entire career. I'm still not convinced that wasn't a flash in the pan or that he'll be particularly good for City this season.

Benni is a proven goalscorer over a number of seasons and if he stays fit and motivated, I know he'll put the ball in the net on a reasonably consistent basis at least.

Sure he's had fitness and motivation issues for us, but RSC is hardly immune to those either is he? If he's such an excellent player why wasn't he putting the ball in the net regularly at Bayern? He got enough chances there.

[LeChuck]

Why didn't City just give us £5 million for Benni then? They could have had him for that, easily.

Hughes worked with both, he knows how good they are. Why would he pay millions more for Santa Cruz if Benni is better? Why aren't clubs trying to take Benni from us if he's better than the £18 million striker we just sold?

That's is daft, I can't believe this has even turned into a debate!

[unluckymorton]

Why didn't City just give us £5 million for Benni then? They could have had him for that, easily.

Hughes worked with both, he knows how good they are. Why would he pay millions more for Santa Cruz if Benni is better? Why aren't clubs trying to take Benni from us if he's better than the £18 million striker we just sold?

That's is daft, I can't believe this has even turned into a debate!

Any striker who is willing to play for Rovers is better than RSC. RSC had no interest in playing for us.

[tony gale's mic]

Why didn't City just give us £5 million for Benni then? They could have had him for that, easily.

Hughes worked with both, he knows how good they are. Why would he pay millions more for Santa Cruz if Benni is better? Why aren't clubs trying to take Benni from us if he's better than the £18 million striker we just sold?

That's is daft, I can't believe this has even turned into a debate!

Another poor argument. Why did Bayern let us have RSC for £3.5 million? After all a succession of managers (probably better than Hughes) worked with him at Bayern. Hughes has paid that much for RSC because there's a chance he might reproduce the form he showed for us two seasons ago and IF he does that then he's younger than Benni so he'll get more seasons out of him. But considering RSC has only had one good season his entire career, the chances of that actually happening are quite minimal. City however can afford to take that hit. Notice there wasn't any other clubs offering anywhere near as much for RSC in the close season.

Benni had a far superior goal record last season to RSC. He's also a proven goalscorer over many seasons, whereas you can't call a striker who's had one great season and many bad ones a proven goalscorer. So both in terms of historical records and most recent form it indicates that Benni is a better striker.

[Hi Mack]

Any striker who is willing to play for Rovers is better than RSC. RSC had no interest in playing for us.

Cant believe Kalinic wont be playing for up to 2 months!

Roberts and McCarthy have become soooooo predictable!

[imy9]

Why didn't City just give us £5 million for Benni then? They could have had him for that, easily.

Hughes worked with both, he knows how good they are. Why would he pay millions more for Santa Cruz if Benni is better? Why aren't clubs trying to take Benni from us if he's better than the £18 million striker we just sold?

That's is daft, I can't believe this has even turned into a debate!

Benni has scored goals everywhere and has shown over 3 years in the PL that he is a top striker, RSC has shown in ONE season in his ENTIRE career that he can score goals in a top league, one season wonder? Could be argued that he is.

Unbelievable bit of business to get £18 million for a crocked striker who has had one good season in his career! You are right about one thing, I cant believe that this is a debate.

[LeChuck]

You lot are mad. Funny how this discussion never came up when Roque was here, isn't it?

[tony gale's mic]

You lot are mad. Funny how this discussion never came up when Roque was here, isn't it?

When Roque was here, he had one brilliant season so then it seemed he'd turned the corner and meanwhile McCarthy was having a shocker, but any time in the second half of last season I would have made the same argument. It's not even that he was injured - he got a fair few games - but his record looked suspiciously similar to the one he had over his entire Bayern career. Meanwhile Benni, whilst being very frustrating at times, scored quite a few important goals last season and even in his poor second season with us scored 8 league goals in 21 starts (and 10 sub apps) - not great but not as bad as RSC's return last season.

[Kelbo]

Man City signed Santa Cruz because he is one of the very few players who has the technical ability to hold the ball up, good in the air, great link up play (which with Tevez, Bellamy, Robinho etc is vital) and will chip in with the odd goal, like Davies at Bolton, his game is based on something entirely different than simply scoring goals!

Benni is a box player, he attacks space and picks up balls in those areas and scores, it simply appears as though he is lazy and disinterested, now Kalinic looks a similar type of player to Benni but quicker and much younger!! Roberts is a battering ram with pace and strength to unsettle the back four, Di Santo is quick and good in the air, so we have every option available in that lot this season!!

[S15]

I'm throwing diplomacy out the window.

If you think McCarthy is a better player than RSC, you're an absolute nutter.

[tony gale's mic]

I'm throwing diplomacy out the window.

If you think McCarthy is a better player than RSC, you're an absolute nutter.

It seems you and LeChuck have a similar method of getting your points across.

Instead of arguing the facts put in front of you, you just resort to questioning everyone's sanity.

Great work.

[LeChuck]

Balls to that, I put forward an argument, but you just quote scoring statistics at me. I'm aware Benni scored more last season, I don't think that makes him the better player automatically, and I don't think what they both did three years ago and longer counts either.

I know who Sam would rather have in his team. I know who every Premier League manager would have his team. I know who virtually every Premier League fan would rather have in their team. Why don't you set up a poll on a football site that wouldn't have any bias and bring the results back?

You never answered why other clubs aren't taking Benni from us either - they could if they want, quite easily in fact. We got an inflated fee for Roque because City are mugs, but clubs like Spurs and Villa would have been there if the fee was reasonable. Why aren't they queuing up for Benni?

[CrazyIvan]

The idea that Benni is better or worse than RSC is like comparing apples and pears. The only similarity is that they are footballers who play up front. Their games are different, the way they play is different and the way they are used is different.

Statistically, Benni has had much the better career. Of that there is no doubt. If you asked me who would I rather have up front (on a day where both are fully fit and fired up) I'd choose RSC but then if you play to Benni's strengths he's a world-beater. RSC has more about his game than Benni overall but his career just doesn't compare AT THIS POINT. Give it 6 years and it might but that depends hugely on if he ever gets fit again!