[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[Iceman]

Points keeps you in this league. Fancy football doesnt, if you dont have the players capable of it. Just ask West Brom and Paul Ince.

[ABBEY]

you get points not point by trying at least to win games against wham and other such teams.

[Iceman]

you get points not point by trying at least to win games against wham and other such teams.

We have had 2 morale crushing defeats, i think Sam just wanted to get us going. We could easily have attacked, left us exposed and left empty handed again. We up and running, and its just about taking those chances.

[ABBEY]

we could have played with two up front and WON .

[OscarRaven]

Sorry Joey, not meaning to nit-pick, but there is no way that we'll have twelve points on the board after eight games, just no way.

12pts / 8 games = 1.5 pts/game = just shy of Europa league (1.5*38 = 57pts)

Mid table is 1.3 pts per game so after 8 games certainly need ~10pts (especially given our October)

As we all know 40pts keeps you up, 38 will usually be enough so we don't (or more accurately didn't) actually need to win a game to stay up.

I am confident in the manager; he did a decent job in difficult circumstances last season. Very disappointed he didn't feel confident or that he didn't have the tactical nouse to beat west ham at home (even with the limited players he had available). He did bigger and better things last season.

Hopefully it was a one-off needs must situation and thats fine, I'll get over the disappointment. I also agree its too early to judge but I hope we don't look back at the end of the season and say we only needed two more points for... because by god they were there for the taking on Saturday.

[Stuart]

We have had 2 morale crushing defeats, i think Sam just wanted to get us going. We could easily have attacked, left us exposed and left empty handed again. We up and running, and its just about taking those chances.

I can see your point Icers, but if you had sat through what we did on Saturday, you would be sharing our opinion, I'm sure.

Even though the football was dreadful, Wham were there for the taking and Sam bottled it. With more positive changes we could, and should, have won.

[RovertheHill]

Lets hope he turn things around, because we should be beating the West hams of this world at home.

This is what I find surprising amongst many of the posters on here.

Mark Hughes managed Rovers from Sept 2004 to June 2008. During that time we played West Ham three times at home. Lost in 2007/2008, lost in 2006/2007 and have to go back to 2005/2006 to the last time we beat them at Ewood. I don't recall the manager being told he'd lost the plot so unequivocally by the fans in 2007/2008, or 2006/2007. Or is my memory wrong?

West Ham are not some newly promoted cr*p team. They have spent massive amounts of money over the last 3 seasons - amounts we would be delighted with on here. Okay, they are a selling club now but they are not Portsmouth.

We should have won. We probably should have been more positive from the start of the second half, but frankly after playing well and losing two games I think it was imperative to get to half-time with a clean sheet.

There's a very clear double standard here because people don't like Allardyce. Hell, I don't like the bloke. But I hope that doesn't completely cloud my judgement

[Tris]

Those are two very good points den. I can't answer for others, although Saturday suggests that there are a section of fans who will not put up with this type of display, but for me, if the tactics and performances continue as the last game did I would accept it if it ensured Premier League survival. I really believe that relegation will be the beginning of the end for this club and that there would be no way back. So in truth, I would accept any type of football that brought sufficient points to stay up. I know that won't be a popular answer but I remember the years of being out of the top flight and I would much rather watch the stuff we watched on Saturday than return to the lower divisions. Without a new benefactor there would simply be no hope of a return to the top flight.

I know that the football we played on Saturday would see supporters drift away but, those of us old enough to remember know only too well, relegation to the lower divisions would see support fall through the floor.

I suppose I take the view that in our present situation, with finances exceptionally tight again, I view Premier League survival as more important than the style of football we play.

What you say makes every sense ... but for the first time I'm finding myself wondering "what's the point"?

I think the reason is because I actually don't trust Allardyce to try and finish as high up the league as is possible for this squad of players. The reason I'm feeling that is because of Liverpool and Arsenal away last season, and West Ham at home on Saturday.

Even though Souness went on about survival being the priority, and Hughes played robust football when necessary, they both put out teams to win games, whatever the opposition and however scarce the resources. You felt there was a purpose to being in the Premier League other than just to stay in it - and as both qualified the club for Europe via league placing, both got the approach correct.

If the only purpose of our existence is now to finish above 17th so we get next season's 40 million quid from Sky and ESPN, just to stick 80% of it directly into Diouf's pocket so he can put gas in his Bentley ... what's the point? Previously I feared the drop because of the much loved, established players we'd lose from the blue and white. They've all gone now anyway.

Blackman, Marshall, Judge, Doran, Hoilett, Marrow, Bunn, Gunning - those would be our stars if we took the drop. All on 5-10 grand a week instead of 40-50K.

I don't agree with you that it would be the beginning of the end. The club has cleared down the debt. It could be the start of a new beginning.

Rant over - and of course I desperately hope put the dismal start behind us, and we fire on up the league and start to score some goals and achieve the potential of this squad - maybe with a few good results we could start dreaming of 7th place again, as I was before the season started. It's just that Saturday has left me very disillusioned and disappointed.

[spencey7]

Those are two very good points den. I can't answer for others, although Saturday suggests that there are a section of fans who will not put up with this type of display, but for me, if the tactics and performances continue as the last game did I would accept it if it ensured Premier League survival. I really believe that relegation will be the beginning of the end for this club and that there would be no way back. So in truth, I would accept any type of football that brought sufficient points to stay up.

I suppose I take the view that in our present situation, with finances exceptionally tight again, I view Premier League survival as more important than the style of football we play.

It's worrying to see exactly how bad some fans will allow us to become under Allardyce before calling for change.

The ugliest, most boring football in the league? No problem.

Not beating Burnley? Fine, Sam knows what he's doing.

Bottom 3 at Christmas? Give the man time.

Exactly how bad will people allow things to get? I think people forget that we were more-than-a-little fortunate to stay up last season under The Shining Night That Is Sam Allardyce. Teams won't always completely fall apart in the manner that Hull and Newcastle did last season. Did we deserve even a point at home to Spurs? Absolutely not! Looking at our upcoming fixtures, this is what I expect on the evidence of Allardyce's EIGHT-MONTH reign so far:

Wolves (H) - WIN. It better be. Without getting the first win here, Burnley will be even more difficult.

Everton (A) - LOSE. Attacking "won't be a priority", put it like that.

Villa (H) - DRAW. Stall set up exactly like West Ham.

Arsenal (A) - LOSE. Could be a cricket score.

Burnley (H) - WIN. Again, it better be.

Chelsea (A) - LOSE. Total capitulation, no attempt to attack or even play.

Man Utd (A) - LOSE. Likewise.

That would give us 8 points going into November, and have us solidly bottom of the table. And I honestly believe I'm being generous with the expected results there. Would anyone care to argue with those predictions?

[Parsonblue]

The problem with your position Spencey7 was that you were calling for change from the day that Sam arrived and before he had played a game. It kinda makes it difficult for anyone to take your calls for him to go now seriously. If we are in a comfortable mid-table position by Christmas, playing Sam's style of football, you will no doubt still be calling for his head. It's rather sad really.

[spencey7]

The problem with your position Spencey7 was that you were calling for change from the day that Sam arrived and before he had played a game.

Let's think - Why would that be...? Could it have been because I saw the anti-football coming? That I looked at his less-than-impressive track record and worried for the long-term future of our club? That I knew it would be a matter of hours before he started prioritising himself above the club or anyone at it? Granted I didn't see the direct insulting of fans coming, but still...

At least Paul Ince was a gamble, albeit one that failed. We knew exactly what we would get with Allardyce, and it was always going to be like this. Outdated, one-dimensional, ineffective dross.

[Alan75]

I'd say the chances of f*****g up number 8 are worryingly high. Our problem is simple, we have only one player, David Dunn, who has a clue about what this means and we have a manager who while understanding the importance of beating Burnley is very likely to opt for the cautious approach.

Sorry to edit and highlight only part of your post Paul - but my rant also highlights contents of Parson blues post who wrote . I wonder what some of you would have done in the early 70's. Bottom of Division Three and in complete turmoil with gates well below 10,000 and falling.

Having lost Derbyshire & Gally, my fear now is that only David Dunn knows what Rovers means to the supporters . whilst as Parson blue states that in the 70s 80s we languished in the 3rd division there were players whilst not world class where prepared to shed blood for the cause.

No longer do we have players such as Hawkins, Parkes, Faz, Keeley, Garner or in the 90s Hendry, Flitcroft, Short Sherwood Savage etc who were prepared to go through the pain barrier to salvage a result.

How many of the current squad know what the club truly means to the supporters. How many are prepared to sweat blood for the cause - is there truly a hard man in the squad.

[JAL]

Whilst as Parson blue states that in the 70s 80s we languished in the 3rd division there were players whilst not world class where prepared to shed blood for the cause.

No longer do we have players such as Hawkins, Parkes, Faz, Keeley, Garner or in the 90s Hendry, Flitcroft, Short Sherwood Savage etc who were prepared to go through the pain barrier to salvage a result.

How many of the current squad know what the club truly means to the supporters. How many are prepared to sweat blood for the cause - is there truly a hard man in the squad.

For me Gael Givet is giving everything for the club out there on the pitch, cant speak highly enough of the French guy from his past two home performances.

For me Gael Givet is definitely sweating blood for the cause just hope he can maintain this early form.

[mellison24]

For me Gael Givet is giving everything for the club out there on the pitch, cant speak highly enough of the French guy from his past two home performances.

For me Gael Givet is definitely sweating blood for the cause just hope he can maintain this early form.

Emerton and Nelsen also give (or GAVE in the current context) their all for our cause. Samba, Pedersen and Diouf work bloody hard as well. And he may be crap, but Roberts also does a helluva lot of work. All being done for our club.

[Parsonblue]

At least Paul Ince was a gamble, albeit one that failed. We knew exactly what we would get with Allardyce, and it was always going to be like this. Outdated, one-dimensional, ineffective dross.

But if his outdated, one-dimensional, ineffective dross keeps us in a healthy League position most of us will be more than happy. Certainly a lot happier than with the multi-dimensional, ineffective dross that Ince served up.

[AggyBlue]

But if his outdated, one-dimensional, ineffective dross keeps us in a healthy League position most of us will be more than happy. Certainly a lot happier than with the multi-dimensional, ineffective dross that Ince served up.

Yes I agree but we must be more ambitious against Wolves.

I will be far from happy if we only try and win that game in the last ten minutes.

[LWX]

could've got more from the city game, should've beat sunderland, could've beat west ham. we're playing ok, but if this trend continues towards xmas we could be in real trouble....

[Iceman]

I can see your point Icers, but if you had sat through what we did on Saturday, you would be sharing our opinion, I'm sure.

Even though the football was dreadful, Wham were there for the taking and Sam bottled it. With more positive changes we could, and should, have won.

I did watch the game, not at Ewood but on tv. I agree, Sam could have switched to 4-4-2, but for me our midfield apart from Dunny were far too hesitant in linking up with Roberts. There is no questiong Junior's talents, and he has shown a maturity beyond his years. That is a part i dont particularly agree with Sam on. Hoiliett has shown he can mix it, and Kalinic we just paid 6mill for. Why on earth doesnt he play the lad from the start, even alongside Roberts or a fit Benni. Or have Hoiliett drifting behind Kalinic

Robbo

Jacobsen Samba Givet Chimbonda

Salgado

Diouf Dunn Pedersen

Hoiliett

Kalinic

I must still say, it was more a case of not losing to get the confidence up, after 2 defeats which somewhat flattened the guys.

[imy9]

Let's think - Why would that be...? Could it have been because I saw the anti-football coming? That I looked at his less-than-impressive track record and worried for the long-term future of our club? That I knew it would be a matter of hours before he started prioritising himself above the club or anyone at it? Granted I didn't see the direct insulting of fans coming, but still...

At least Paul Ince was a gamble, albeit one that failed. We knew exactly what we would get with Allardyce, and it was always going to be like this. Outdated, one-dimensional, ineffective dross.

I will say this again for you, can you name a manager out there who has a proven track record like Big Sam:

2003-04- 8th and cup final

2004-5- 6th and Europe

2005-6- 8th

2006-7- left them in 5th place

Now I know you will mention Newcastle but he was fired after a few months with a win loss record of 33% which is better than the previous Newcastle manager and others after him too.

How is the above not impressive on a shoe string budget, and I will add having beaten the Man United and Arsenals of the world too.

Outdated? He is widely recognized as a pioneer in the English game with his use of sports science amongst other things, players like Hierro, Jay Jay, Campo, Speed speak highly of Sam and I cant recall a bad word ever being said against Sam, why is that? Your entitled to your opinion just like everyone else but at least make points that are based around facts rather than your hatred against Sam.

[spencey7]

Outdated? He is widely recognized as a pioneer in the English game with his use of sports science amongst other things, players like Hierro, Jay Jay, Campo, Speed speak highly of Sam and I cant recall a bad word ever being said against Sam, why is that? Your entitled to your opinion just like everyone else but at least make points that are based around facts rather than your hatred against Sam.

The statistics you're referring to are almost three years old - Times change. Three years ago Sven Goran Eriksson was the England manager, where is he now? During Allardyce's tenure at Bolton "sports science" might have been been a new thing, but times have changed. If you're bringing up those players and their adulation of Allardyce, how about the question raised by players in the dressing room during his (much more recent) tenure at Newcastle: "But what do you want us to do when we've got the ball?" He got all the money he could have dreamt of at Newcastle, and just ended up a embarassing figure on the touchline, ranting, screaming and shouting. Perhaps he's learned his lesson from trying to "play a better way"....?

It's very clear from the end of last season and the beginning of this one that Allardyce has in fact become LESS dynamic in his footballing approach. Even Bolton 2005 were better to watch than Stoke 2009, but now we're pushing them close. The reliance on set pieces seems to get greater by the game.

[Iceman]

The statistics you're referring to are almost three years old - Times change. Three years ago Sven Goran Eriksson was the England manager, where is he now? During Allardyce's tenure at Bolton "sports science" might have been been a new thing, but times have changed. If you're bringing up those players and their adulation of Allardyce, how about the question raised by players in the dressing room during his (much more recent) tenure at Newcastle: "But what do you want us to do when we've got the ball?" He got all the money he could have dreamt of at Newcastle, and just ended up a embarassing figure on the touchline, ranting, screaming and shouting. Perhaps he's learned his lesson from trying to "play a better way"....?

It's very clear from the end of last season and the beginning of this one that Allardyce has in fact become LESS dynamic in his footballing approach. Even Bolton 2005 were better to watch than Stoke 2009, but now we're pushing them close. The reliance on set pieces seems to get greater by the game.

I give up. I just cant anymore. For the love of all sweet women, help this member.

[Mattyblue]

Times change. Three years ago Sven Goran Eriksson was the England manager, where is he now?

In his penthouse with a blonde or three laughing his specs off that mugs keep giving him 10 million pound contacts.

Ridiculous example.

[imy9]

The statistics you're referring to are almost three years old - Times change. Three years ago Sven Goran Eriksson was the England manager, where is he now? During Allardyce's tenure at Bolton "sports science" might have been been a new thing, but times have changed. If you're bringing up those players and their adulation of Allardyce, how about the question raised by players in the dressing room during his (much more recent) tenure at Newcastle: "But what do you want us to do when we've got the ball?" He got all the money he could have dreamt of at Newcastle, and just ended up a embarassing figure on the touchline, ranting, screaming and shouting. Perhaps he's learned his lesson from trying to "play a better way"....?

It's very clear from the end of last season and the beginning of this one that Allardyce has in fact become LESS dynamic in his footballing approach. Even Bolton 2005 were better to watch than Stoke 2009, but now we're pushing them close. The reliance on set pieces seems to get greater by the game.

What like James Milner?

http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-ne...61634-23541449/

"But he never told us to just hit it. We had the players to play and Allardyce wanted us to do that.” Can you share some evidence that contradicts this- remember Milner played for Villa when this was released so he had no reason to back Sam.

1. You originally said that Sam had a "less-than-impressive track record" pile of rubbish yes?

2. Players like Hierro, Campo and co rave about Sam as a manager and his forward thinking approach- do you have anything to counter this?

3. You said: "Even Bolton 2005 were better to watch than Stoke 2009, but now we're pushing them close. The reliance on set pieces seems to get greater by the game."- Did you see the first two games, when we had more shots on target and more possession than the other teams and played decent football not "hoodball" as you said, anything to counter this?

As I said you talk a lot of nonsense and state "facts" that are actually nothing of the sort- be interesting to see your response on the above.

[Mr. E]

This is what I find surprising amongst many of the posters on here.

Mark Hughes managed Rovers from Sept 2004 to June 2008. During that time we played West Ham three times at home. Lost in 2007/2008, lost in 2006/2007 and have to go back to 2005/2006 to the last time we beat them at Ewood. I don't recall the manager being told he'd lost the plot so unequivocally by the fans in 2007/2008, or 2006/2007. Or is my memory wrong?

West Ham are not some newly promoted cr*p team. They have spent massive amounts of money over the last 3 seasons - amounts we would be delighted with on here. Okay, they are a selling club now but they are not Portsmouth.

We should have won. We probably should have been more positive from the start of the second half, but frankly after playing well and losing two games I think it was imperative to get to half-time with a clean sheet.

There's a very clear double standard here because people don't like Allardyce. Hell, I don't like the bloke. But I hope that doesn't completely cloud my judgement

The only player in their team that is head-and-shoulders above any of ours is Carlton Cole. We more than match them in the other areas of the pitch. And I really don't believe in this hodoo stuff, if we hadn't beaten them for so long the only thing it means is that it's about time we did.

[RovertheHill]

The only player in their team that is head-and-shoulders above any of ours is Carlton Cole. We more than match them in the other areas of the pitch. And I really don't believe in this hodoo stuff, if we hadn't beaten them for so long the only thing it means is that it's about time we did.

Not really the point of my post - the point was about the reaction to Hughes's worse results versus this result - but never mind