[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[dulwich]

My main point is that they are geordies - look what happened to them!

If you would like to be deluded like them...thats your choice. Do you attend most games? Its the media that seem to give us this image of nasty football, all long ball and not much else - its abit like when they labelled us Bully boys.

Actually yes, I do attend most games, and always will whether Allardyce is in charge, Ince, or you for that matter.

Surely though being labelled "Bully Boys" by the press is far superior to now, when we seem to pick and choose games to try and win. I'd much rather see us "bully" the top four/five, than see us concede 4,5 or 6, and then try to pick up points against the Hulls and Stokes of the League.

[John]

Actually yes, I do attend most games, and always will whether Allardyce is in charge, Ince, or you for that matter.

Surely though being labelled "Bully Boys" by the press is far superior to now, when we seem to pick and choose games to try and win. I'd much rather see us "bully" the top four/five, than see us concede 4,5 or 6, and then try to pick up points against the Hulls and Stokes of the League.

I am shocked you think we should be doing significantly better - what do you really expect? Be careful what you wish for........some ridiculous things are being posted on here.

[mrsjansen]

Jeez still so much negativity. I see people took notice of the last post about bullying people cos they shared a different opinion to everyone else.

As long as someone supports the club, does it matter whether or not they are fans of the manager or not???? Or agree with his tactics???

Majority of people didnt like Ince, or his tactics, or everything about him, but because that was the norm and what everyone agreed on it was deemed ok, those that did like him where called deluded etc. There is no winning on this site i see. Well maybe there is if you agree with the majority and stop standing up for what you believe in or your deemed not a true supporter.

Its like being in a playground. Grow up some of you and maybe open your minds to opinions THAT AREN'T YOURS FFS.

[BuckyRover]

Great post mrsjansen.

[47er]

My main point is that they are geordies - look what happened to them!

If you would like to be deluded like them...thats your choice. Do you attend most games? Its the media that seem to give us this image of nasty football, all long ball and not much else - its abit like when they labelled us Bully boys.

Watching Villa against City I was struck by what a 1-dimensional team they are. l long ball in the air to their strikers everytime. But nobody says so!

[RovertheHill]

Jeez still so much negativity. I see people took notice of the last post about bullying people cos they shared a different opinion to everyone else.

As long as someone supports the club, does it matter whether or not they are fans of the manager or not???? Or agree with his tactics???

Majority of people didnt like Ince, or his tactics, or everything about him, but because that was the norm and what everyone agreed on it was deemed ok, those that did like him where called deluded etc. There is no winning on this site i see. Well maybe there is if you agree with the majority and stop standing up for what you believe in or your deemed not a true supporter.

Its like being in a playground. Grow up some of you and maybe open your minds to opinions THAT AREN'T YOURS FFS.

It is pathetic. I generally support the manager whether I like them or not, at least whilst I think they are doing a decent job. When Hughes left I didn't want Allardyce as I thought he was wrong at that time. I wanted Ten Cate and was massively underwhelmed at Ince, but I tried to support him. Amongst others on here we got labelled Incettes and other such derogatory terms. When it became clear we needed change I thought Allardyce was a good choice at that time. Now when you support him you get people complaining that nobody else is allowed an opinion and the board is rubbish. What a nonsense - what they mean is that because some people don't agree with them it is rubbish. Interestingly, many of the people labelled Incettes who bemoaned the way we treated that manager are leading the complaints against the current manager. Even more interestingly, many of the longer-term members of this board are seemingly lining up against Allardyce so I expect the board to become more anti than pro.

As for the manager - there are people on here who judge each game as they see them and you have to respect that. Then there are others with a single agenda and it doesn't matter what happens in the match, it is spun to match the agenda. I guess it's a microcosm of real-life

[CAPT KAYOS]

What a nonsense - what they mean is that because some people don't agree with them it is rubbish.

its also vice versa rth .

The likes of Paul & dulwich etc are only expressing what they see (and is quite obvious without blue and white specs) and their disappointment at certain criteria - they still attend and give their support, so they have every reason to criticise when justified which IMO is what they are doing with reasoned and factual debate

Nobody is bigger than the club , which includes Sam, and his comments etc of being ' the expert' don't exactly endear him to a loyal factor of fans, especially some who have been watching football for probably longer than he has been in the game.

Its not all rosey as some people would like to believe, and given certain criteria those posting as if nothing is amiss ie Hughesy (aka Sam), although he means well starts to grate.

You can still be behind the club yet not like certain things - yes I agree some may be taking things along a personal line and childish with it, but these can easily be spotted ie Waggy but he also has enough years following Rovers to make his stance - just doesn't do it very well on here.

Everybody deserves to express an opinion, not sure I agree with the negativity Mrs J states but I do agree with her comment

As long as someone supports the club, does it matter whether or not they are fans of the manager or not???? Or agree with his tactics???

,

the team and the manager (for now) do appear to be getting the backing at the games where in all essence is where it matters

[dulwich]

I am shocked you think we should be doing significantly better - what do you really expect? Be careful what you wish for........some ridiculous things are being posted on here.

I'm shocked that you think we shouldn't.

[thenodrog]

It is pathetic. I generally support the manager whether I like them or not, at least whilst I think they are doing a decent job. When Hughes left I didn't want Allardyce as I thought he was wrong at that time. I wanted Ten Cate and was massively underwhelmed at Ince, but I tried to support him. Amongst others on here we got labelled Incettes and other such derogatory terms. When it became clear we needed change I thought Allardyce was a good choice at that time. Now when you support him you get people complaining that nobody else is allowed an opinion and the board is rubbish. What a nonsense - what they mean is that because some people don't agree with them it is rubbish. Interestingly, many of the people labelled Incettes who bemoaned the way we treated that manager are leading the complaints against the current manager. Even more interestingly, many of the longer-term members of this board are seemingly lining up against Allardyce so I expect the board to become more anti than pro.

As for the manager - there are people on here who judge each game as they see them and you have to respect that. Then there are others with a single agenda and it doesn't matter what happens in the match, it is spun to match the agenda. I guess it's a microcosm of real-life

C'mon Roverthehill don't beat about the bush, name names!

But.... A poll might be fun between 'pro Ince pro Allardyce' / 'anti Ince pro Allardyce' / 'pro Ince anti allardyce' and anti Ince / anti allardyce'.

the team and the manager (for now) do appear to be getting the backing at the games where in all essence is where it matters

Stupid as it is that will depend massively on the next one.

[joey_big_nose]

Stupid as it is that will depend massively on the next one.

I don't really think it is stupid. We have a better side than the Dingles, the players are virtually all fit and available, and we have settled the tactical system. We are also at home and it is probably our biggest game since the semi final against Chelsea.

We have to win, or if we don't put in an excellent performance where we are unlucky to draw.

It won't be easy - Coyle is an excellent manager and he has created a hard working, enthusiastic and vibrant team with decent talent - but playing poorly is unacceptable. Completely so. If it was away, or if burnley had more quality players, or we were in an injury crisis it would be different and it would be logical to be more forgiving. But all the variables are with us. We have to make them count.

[gumboots]

C'mon Roverthehill don't beat about the bush, name names!

But.... A poll might be fun between 'pro Ince pro Allardyce' / 'anti Ince pro Allardyce' / 'pro Ince anti allardyce' and anti Ince / anti allardyce'.

How would people like me vote? Wasn't really pro Ince though I thought he deserved his chance and should be supported until our league position and our general play showed that it was time for him to go. Can't stand allardyce personally but have to admit that he was the main reason we stayed up last season. Don't much like the way he seems to approach some games currently and didn't like his I'm the expert comment - it might be true but didn't need saying seriously or in jest - but can't see how we could afford to sack him even if there was someone better available and willing and I'm not sure there is anyway. I'm not pro Ince, pro allardyce or anything - I just want us to do well.

[Miker]

We have to beat Burnley. Mainly because we just have to get 3 points from that game because we should be on 10 points by the end of October and anything less is unacceptable. So if we do lose to Burnley, the only way Sam can make up for it for me is to beat Chelsea or United. That's in the short term anyway. I honestly don't think we'll lose against Burnley though. I'm not sure how I would feel about a draw... not too happy I imagine!

The issue I have with most of the people criticising Sam is that they are jumping on his case way too quickly and in my opinion without any reasonable argument. We've played well so far this season and I have been excited to watch every game so far, which I definitely couldn't say for last season. Following Arsenal and Villa, I actually feel like we can go play against teams and have a chance of winning games we're not favourites for. My biggest issue with the anti-Allardyce gang is the fact that we haven't had any horrendous results yet. It's not like we've gone and lost 3-0 to Wigan or something. We've lost a couple of away games to strong teams and that's that.

The question people need to ask is if they think Sam will get us relegated this season. I just can't see that happening. The second question they need to ask is if Sam is able to keep morale up in the team and keep everyone fit. And the answer to that is: yes he can. The third question, isn't really a question, it's simply the idea that Sam has only had half a season in charge, so he needs time to rebuild the squad and turn it into a real force. He can't do it within a single season. The important thing to note is that if Sam gets us a decent position this season it means we can build on that next season and actually realistically challenge for Europe. By then we'll have a lot of young players who may be experienced enough and ready to perform in the Premier League. There's a lot to look forward to, but not much reason to panic.

[dulwich]

My biggest issue with the anti-Allardyce gang is the fact that we haven't had any horrendous results yet. It's not like we've gone and lost 3-0 to Wigan or something. We've lost a couple of away games to strong teams and that's that.

The question people need to ask is if they think Sam will get us relegated this season. I just can't see that happening. The second question they need to ask is if Sam is able to keep morale up in the team and keep everyone fit. And the answer to that is: yes he can. The third question, isn't really a question, it's simply the idea that Sam has only had half a season in charge, so he needs time to rebuild the squad and turn it into a real force. He can't do it within a single season. The important thing to note is that if Sam gets us a decent position this season it means we can build on that next season and actually realistically challenge for Europe. By then we'll have a lot of young players who may be experienced enough and ready to perform in the Premier League. There's a lot to look forward to, but not much reason to panic.

Firstly, wouldn't you call losing to Everton a horrendous result, not to mention the drubbing at Arsenal?

Secondly, I would disagree about the keeping everyone fit, as everyone isn't fit. Samba, Nelsen, Robinson, Reid? Granted he has Dunn seemingly firing for the first time in God knows how many season. But considering he's big on sport science and injury prevention, something doesn't seem right there. And he's had a full pre-season, we can excuse him coming part way through a season, but he's had a full pre-season to prepare the squad HIS way.

Thirdly, perhaps we do have a lot to look forward to, but perhaps we should compare the second half of last season, to this season. I'm afraid I don't see much improvement, do you?

And for the record, I'm not anti-Allardyce, or pro-Ince. I'm pro-Rovers.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Stupid as it is that will depend massively on the next one.

Your long enough in the tooth to understand its horses for courses though Theno.

If Sam choses to use the targetted games philosophy then the one against the 'old enemy' is the one that matters the most - a loss or even a draw for that matter is not good enough.

The team and Sam will certainly get the backing on the day, unless the course of the game turns into a a calamitous faux pas on the Rovers part.

[OscarRaven]

Lot of Anti this and pro that been banded about. Why is the concept that people can question, be critical and support without being Anti- or pro- so difficult to grasp?

[Stuart]

C'mon Roverthehill don't beat about the bush, name names!

But.... A poll might be fun between 'pro Ince pro Allardyce' / 'anti Ince pro Allardyce' / 'pro Ince anti allardyce' and anti Ince / anti allardyce'.

Stupid as it is that will depend massively on the next one.

Whilst that would be an interesting debate, I'm not sure it's a cut and dried as that though 'Drog.

We all know about the financial situation and the pulling power we have in terms of kind of (level of ability of) player we can attract to the club, so when it comes down to judging the manager, most of us (except for those with personal issues about Ince or Allardyce) are either:

Pro- managers-who-demonstrate-sound-tactics-and-ambition-which-ultimately-end-in-a-good-performance-ideally-aiming-for-a-win

(no-one expects him to win every game)

Or

Anti- managers-who-make-seemingly-bonkers-decisions-in-player-buys/selections/tactics-before-and-during-matches-which-result-in-gutless-defeat

Owen Coyle would probably fit the former mould, whist Ince would be the latter. Allardyce is leaning towards the latter also but because he is the incumbent manager, he will likely get the benefit of the doubt for a bit longer providing:

1) He stops patronising his shareholders (Rovers fans)

2) Continues to have injury problems

Although you will always have your purists, when it comes to the crunch, football is a results driven business and - until it becomes a franchise - it will remain that way. You only have to look at the detractors of Arsene Wenger and Arsenal to see that - and the job Jose Mourinho did at Chelsea to see that.

For me, if I can leave a match seen at least one goal and have that happy feeling walking up Bolton Rd having won, and see us climb the league, then I'll be delighted. There's nothing more gut wrenching that watching us play fantastic football and lose. But maybe you have to have the pain to enjoy the pleasure. (Not in any sordid context, you understand).

[sambo]

I don't really think it is stupid. We have a better side than the Dingles, the players are virtually all fit and available, and we have settled the tactical system. We are also at home and it is probably our biggest game since the semi final against Chelsea.

We have to win, or if we don't put in an excellent performance where we are unlucky to draw.

It won't be easy - Coyle is an excellent manager and he has created a hard working, enthusiastic and vibrant team with decent talent - but playing poorly is unacceptable. Completely so. If it was away, or if burnley had more quality players, or we were in an injury crisis it would be different and it would be logical to be more forgiving. But all the variables are with us. We have to make them count.

Thing is, Burnley are 5 points above us - they must be doing something right. It's not as cut as dry as you make out I don't think - I want a win but don't 'expect' to win (feeling pessimistic) - although if we were to draw or lose I'd be fuming.

[RovertheHill]

Lot of Anti this and pro that been banded about. Why is the concept that people can question, be critical and support without being Anti- or pro- so difficult to grasp?

For many, many people on here it isn't. However, for a few (on both sides) it seems what actually happens is of little relevance to their viewpoint.

Picking up on drog's reply to my post earlier, I don't know how I'd vote because I wasn't pro/anti Ince and I'm not pro/anti Allardyce. I do however think that despite some results not going for us there has been progress this year and I'm not too worried about the direction in which we are heading, unlike some who think the sky has already fallen in. I do think his expert comments were a massive mistake, I didn't like 4-5-1 until I realised the space it gives an in-form Dunny and I'm not happy about the score against Arsenal - although I think for 60 minutes we had a real go which is what I asked for before the game - so I can't really complain.

But the next game is massive. Win comfortably and I think all will be right with the world for most on here. Win luckily and the questions/concerns will continue to fester. Lose and he will be under massive, massive pressure.

Interesting question though - if we beat Burnley and lose to Chelsea and Man Utd will people be happier than losing to Burnley and getting >4 points from the other two?

[47er]

Firstly, wouldn't you call losing to Everton a horrendous result, not to mention the drubbing at Arsenal?

Secondly, I would disagree about the keeping everyone fit, as everyone isn't fit. Samba, Nelsen, Robinson, Reid? Granted he has Dunn seemingly firing for the first time in God knows how many season. But considering he's big on sport science and injury prevention, something doesn't seem right there. And he's had a full pre-season, we can excuse him coming part way through a season, but he's had a full pre-season to prepare the squad HIS way.

Thirdly, perhaps we do have a lot to look forward to, but perhaps we should compare the second half of last season, to this season. I'm afraid I don't see much improvement, do you?

And for the record, I'm not anti-Allardyce, or pro-Ince. I'm pro-Rovers.

The Everton game WAS horrendous but the Arsenal one was not. Don't see how Miker got excited by the West Ham game but otherwise I agree with what he's saying.I'm pro-Rovers too and ,as far as I'm concerned, that means wishing the manager well too.

[dulwich]

The Everton game WAS horrendous but the Arsenal one was not. Don't see how Miker got excited by the West Ham game but otherwise I agree with what he's saying.I'm pro-Rovers too and ,as far as I'm concerned, that means wishing the manager well too.

I do wish the manager well, I really do.

However, as I posted before, I don't think he should be above question. At the minute I just feel that he's talking a better game than he's delivering.

[allanncd]

A manager is judged largely on the success (or lack of) in transfer dealings. So far this season, there are more misses than hits. Spending £6m on a striker who for some reason continues to be kept under wraps nearly 3 months after he arrived. A marquee signing from Real Madrid who so far looks much less secure than 3 others also capable of playing right back. A South African winger who has disappeared without trace. Allowing a capable centre back to go on loan leaving only full backs as central cover. A replacement left back who only uses his left leg to stand on. An on-loan striker who will be leaving before the Xmas decorations are down. Of course it could all come right... but at the moment the squad that looks worse than last season - and that was bad.

[mellison24]

A manager is judged largely on the success (or lack of) in transfer dealings. So far this season, there are more misses than hits. Spending £6m on a striker who for some reason continues to be kept under wraps nearly 3 months after he arrived. A marquee signing from Real Madrid who so far looks much less secure than 3 others also capable of playing right back. A South African winger who has disappeared without trace. Allowing a capable centre back to go on loan leaving only full backs as central cover. A replacement left back who only uses his left leg to stand on. An on-loan striker who will be leaving before the Xmas decorations are down. Of course it could all come right... but at the moment the squad that looks worse than last season - and that was bad.

Obviously a difference of opinion here, but I think we are stronger. It's just that Sam isn't using all his options. Hoilett shuld have been used a lot more than he has been so far. The squad itself (on paper) looks stronger to me. But as I say, Sam isn't using his options very well. Although there may be reasons for this which we don't know.....

[47er]

A manager is judged largely on the success (or lack of) in transfer dealings. So far this season, there are more misses than hits. Spending £6m on a striker who for some reason continues to be kept under wraps nearly 3 months after he arrived. A marquee signing from Real Madrid who so far looks much less secure than 3 others also capable of playing right back. A South African winger who has disappeared without trace. Allowing a capable centre back to go on loan leaving only full backs as central cover. A replacement left back who only uses his left leg to stand on. An on-loan striker who will be leaving before the Xmas decorations are down. Of course it could all come right... but at the moment the squad that looks worse than last season - and that was bad.

Givet is a centre-back who can play left-back, Chimbonda can and has played anywhere on the back-line and is a better footballer than Warnock. You forgot to mention Nzonzi------because he's an unqualified success? Agree about Salgado, unsure about Kalanic.Di Santo is also a hit and we don't know if he's here all year or not. Stronger squad than last season and an immeasurably better manager.

[Miker]

I do wish the manager well, I really do.

However, as I posted before, I don't think he should be above question. At the minute I just feel that he's talking a better game than he's delivering.

I agree that Everton was pretty bad and completely unexpected, I have avoided commenting on the game as it's the only one I haven't seen so far (thankfully ), but I'm not going to deny it was a miserable result for us. I don't think that Arsenal was horrendous, the scoreline makes it seem like it was, but up until those last 20 minutes where they slaughtered us we actually went out there and did a good job of trying to match Arsenal. If you compare our loss to Everton's loss then you have to say that Everton just put in a poor performance, which allowed Arsenal to thrash them. In our case, we were actually playing well for most of the game and it was just disappointing to lose by that much in the end.

To answer 47er... I think joey might've mentioned this elsewhere, I don't think it was the most exciting game I've ever seen, but I thought we played well throughout and created a host of chances, so we were unlucky not to win the game. Don't forget previous seasons they were our bogey team. It was a 4-1 loss under Ince, which was one of the key games to his eventual dismissal. So in a way, I don't blame Sam for being cautious that game. Clearly we should've won though.

To compare it to last season... we had 28 points after 21 games. Right now we have 7 from 7. To beat the record from the last half of last season we would have to pick up 7 wins from 14 games. After United we have a host of winnable games til the end of the year. In fact, the only games I can see us having problems winning is Liverpool at Home, Tottenham at Home and Bolton Away. Even then... I wouldn't put it past us to draw those 3 games.

Even then... if we do match the 28 points from last season, I would be quite pleased with the result, as that would put us close to European form or get us into the top 10 at least, which is what I am expecting this season. Don't forget we have some very winnable games in November and I think our results in those games will truly show what we can achieve this season.

[Hughesy]

But considering he's big on sport science and injury prevention, something doesn't seem right there.

Are you sure....Lets compare.

Dunn - Previously always injured - NOW FIT

Emerton - BIG injury - NOW FIT

Reid - As Dunn - NOW FIT

Grella - Always injured - NOW FIT

Yes we have Samba/ Nelsen & Robbo with minor knocks, thats part and parcel of football. All will be fit for Burnley @ home.

A manager is judged largely on the success (or lack of) in transfer dealings. So far this season, there are more misses than hits.

I disagree. You have to look at the out's too.

Outs - Santa Cruz (Done nothing & £18m thank you), Warnock (nothing much), Derbyshire (Injured), Gallagher (Nothing in the championship), Zurab, Judge & Bunn (Never played for us anyway).

Ins - NZonzi (Buy of the season), Di Santo (Quality), Chimbonda (Bargain), Jacobsen (Free - Quality). Hoilett (Yes he didnt sign him, but he did have the brains to bring him back and fight for a permit, not just sell him off)

Now the only 3 still to prove themselves is Kalinic (He said when he signed him he would need time), Salgado (Admit it looks dodgy) & Van Herden (Had an injury, looks decent for Reserves - needs time to get a chance)