[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[waynerovers]

for the first time in 17 years i feel embarrased to be a rovers fan. A game of football is 11 men vs 11 men, we dont even go out to compete, horrible to watch. Is there an email address for John Williams.

[Paul]

All the good work by Rovers on ticket prices will be undone next summer, because watching this isn't fun or entertaining, it's a bloody dismal chore. This years new crop of ST holders will be back to the shops and the ice hockey without a second glance back to Ewood Park.

I'm not sure if I've said it but this has been bothering me as well. It also goes deeper Tris. I never use to miss a game but I no longer go to League Cup games, I might wander down for the Chelsea tie but I have no plans to do so - I'm already busy on the Wednesday so unless it's Tuesday match I'm definetley lost for this one. In seasons past if a home game clashed with something else the home game took priority, now I give my ST to someone else and don't go. Until recently I couldn't imagine missing a match but with the teams and attitude Allardyce puts out I'm really not that interested in watching. I won't be at the Portsmouth game.

Strangely we are hoping to get in extra away matches. Why? We want to go to Turf Moor. Says it all really, I won't bother with Portsmouth but I'll go to The Reebok to build up my chances of getting a ticket for Burnley away. I'm prepared to watch our even worse away performances just for the chance of watching one game..............because it will be a REAL football match. Not the dross that the PL has become.

[47er]

Excellent post Tris.

No it wasn't. It was the usual rubbish you and he spout every fortnight. When we lose you're on here wringing your hands and when we win you're absent. I don't remember a word from either of you after that wonderful win over Villa with 10 men.

Burnley was an exception for Tris because even though we won comfortably, he could ignore that great come-back in the first half and concentrate on the second and claim failure even though we won!

Allerdyce built Bolton up over years, on little money, to become an established Premier League Club challenging for Top 6 when he left.If you and Tris had been in charge he ouldn't have had the chence. He's been here for 1 year for God's sake!

[dingles staying down 4ever]

I could not care less if Sam leaves or not. His style has depressed me from day one. But I feel it only fair to defend him a little. There are several points that need to be considered :-

1. We have just come through the worst trio of away matches back to back. To see Rovers lose those three games is no surprise but I accept to lose 10 away games on the bounce is poor.

2. Although he has had some money, Sam has had to delve the bargain buckets to find players. The money spent is nothing compared to the majority of the premiership.

3.We are not in the Bottom 3.

4. No proven experienced manager would touch Rovers with the budget available so who would you replace him with?

5. Some have criticised his tactic of playing Dunn behind the front player but it has seen Dunn play some of his best football in a very long time. The only thing I'd question is that when Di Santos or Dunn unavailable will Sam have the tactical nouse to adjust his tactics to suit the remaining players. The Chelsea debacle suggests no.

Now we are facing a relatively fair set of fixtures ahead lets see if we can get a set of results together and climb up the table. If we fail to achieve this by the end of November then it would be right to question him.

[thenodrog]

I understand the "who can we get better" argument. But surely that isn't enough to keep a manager?

My flabber is well and truly gasted! If we cannot get anybody better then by definition we have to employ one who is worse! Are you for real dulwich?

[thenodrog]

........Allardyce is the manager until his contract expires or he is grabbed by another team. Only then can he be replaced. And I'd hate to see him go, as I think he is an above average manager, despite his stubborness, and it would be a huge gamble to replace him.

Open question to all posters who railed at Allardyces "expert" comments. Can anybody give me an example of a top football manager who does NOT have a stubborn and even arrogant streak? Mourinho? Wenger? RFW? Hughes? O'Neill? Moyes? Arry? All stubborn as mules imo but in the main all winners. Further back stubborn bugggers included Shanks and Paisley, Bill Nicholson, Revie, Allison and last but not least was there a man anywhere on the planet more stubborn or arrogant than Brian Clough?

Instead of whining and backbiting some on here might do well to consider that stubborness is a vital requirement for any top manager.

for the first time in 17 years i feel embarrased to be a rovers fan. A game of football is 11 men vs 11 men, we dont even go out to compete, horrible to watch. Is there an email address for John Williams.

17 years ffs? A Walkerbaby..... you know nowt yet lad.

[Amo]

Open question to all posters who railed at Allardyces "expert" comments. Can anybody give me an example of a top football manager who does NOT have a stubborn and even arrogant streak? Mourinho? Wenger? RFW? Hughes? O'Neill? Moyes? Arry? All stubborn as mules imo but in the main all winners. Further back stubborn bugggers included Shanks and Paisley, Bill Nicholson, Revie, Allison and last but not least was there a man anywhere on the planet more stubborn or arrogant than Brian Clough?

Instead of whining and backbiting some on here might do well to consider that stubborness is a vital requirement for any top manager.

I think anyone is willing to take his obstinate behaviour when it produces results. When he fails to recognize the obvious and we continue to be the top four's whipping boys, then the egg is truly on his face.

[thenodrog]

I'm not sure if I've said it but this has been bothering me as well. It also goes deeper Tris. I never use to miss a game but I no longer go to League Cup games, I might wander down for the Chelsea tie but I have no plans to do so - I'm already busy on the Wednesday so unless it's Tuesday match I'm definetley lost for this one. In seasons past if a home game clashed with something else the home game took priority, now I give my ST to someone else and don't go. Until recently I couldn't imagine missing a match but with the teams and attitude Allardyce puts out I'm really not that interested in watching. I won't be at the Portsmouth game.

Strangely we are hoping to get in extra away matches. Why? We want to go to Turf Moor. Says it all really, I won't bother with Portsmouth but I'll go to The Reebok to build up my chances of getting a ticket for Burnley away. I'm prepared to watch our even worse away performances just for the chance of watching one game..............because it will be a REAL football match. Not the dross that the PL has become.

No guarantee of that I'm afraid. Also I think losing interest is an age thing that afflicts many men in their 50's and 60's.

BUT Admin can you please to that thingy as with LancashireUtd and change Pauls name to Marvin the Paranoid Android? He's bloody depressing the lot of us.

[dulwich]

My flabber is well and truly gasted! If we cannot get anybody better then by definition we have to employ one who is worse! Are you for real dulwich?

Employ someone yes, keep someone no.

Why is that so hard to work out?

[jim mk2]

Employ someone yes, keep someone no.

Why is that so hard to work out?

Provide (realistic and proven) names who might be willing to manage Rovers.

[dulwich]

Provide (realistic and proven) names who might be willing to manage Rovers.

That's not the point I'm making and you know it, that's just a lazy argument imo. In any walk of life if someone isn't performing in their position they'll be removed and then replaced ONCE that has happened.

And for the record, I realise we've had our toughest month of fixtures, and am willing to give Sam until Christmas at least, get some more "winnable" fixtures under our belt. The problem I have is that we don't seem to have the same level of performance or application as we did last year AFTER he came in.

[thenodrog]

That's not the point I'm making and you know it, that's just a lazy argument imo. In any walk of life if someone isn't performing in their position they'll be removed and then replaced ONCE that has happened.

On the contrary yours is the lazy argument. Any silly sod can sack somebody getting somebody better is the key. In football replacements are usually lined up (Sam last season for a prime example and Boro this week) anything else is suicidal. So come on as Doris asked, your suggestions please.

[dulwich]

On the contrary yours is the lazy argument. Any silly sod can sack somebody getting somebody better is the key. In football replacements are usually lined up (Sam last season for a prime example and Boro this week) anything else is suicidal. So come on as Doris asked, your suggestions please.

Where have I suggested getting rid?

[jim mk2]

That's not the point I'm making and you know it, that's just a lazy argument imo.

So you think Allardyce should be removed but are too lazy to offer reaasoanble alternatives.

You don't have any argument at all.

As Gordon the moron said, put up or shut up.

[ABBEY]

you really are a nice well spoken fella jim.

[thenodrog]

And for the record, I realise we've had our toughest month of fixtures, and am willing to give Sam until Christmas at least,

You suggested getting rid just two post above dulwich. If we are to get rid by Christmas we need to be speaking to others off the record right now. So once more who do you

suggest that JW should be sounding out who is better qualified to keep us in the Prem than SA?

you really are a nice well spoken fella jim.

Small man, big keyboard syndrome Abbs.

[Exiled in Toronto]

We're not going to sack him and no club is going to pinch him, but, just because we are stuck with him does not mean I or anyone else has to like it.

I for one never complained during the Hughes early days. It wasn't pretty, but I liked the F you attitude of the team and it was clearly a means to an end. Now I am embarrassed by our attitude against the so-called big boys...'Please don't hurt me Mister'. No-one minds losing against better teams, but setting out to lose by not too many is humiliating, and playing a cr@p system cr@ply just makes it worse.

What's end is this a means to?

[RovertheHill]

This is Sam the Expert's away record in the last ten matches:

Arsenal 4 Blackburn 0

Liverpool 4 Blackburn 0

Stoke 1 Blackburn 0

Man City 3 Blackburn 1

Chelsea 2 Blackburn 0

Sunderland 2 Blackburn 1

Everton 3 Blackburn 0

Arsenal 6 Blackburn 2

Chelsea 5 Blackburn 0

Man United 2 Blackburn 0

That's interesting. I must admit that I was starting to think the usual suspects had a point when they said we had lost 10 away games on the bounce and it was unacceptable. I guess it is. But as ever, stats don't tell the whole story. It seems that of those 10 games 6 were against the champions league clubs. Let's just analyse that a bit shall we. This season the cl clubs have played 19 games at home. Liverpool have lost 1 and utd have drawn 1. There are 17 wins in the remaining games. So it isn't just us that struggle against that lot. Stoke are extremely resilient at home (as are we) and City, Everton and Sunderland are not mugs, even though we should have beaten Sunderland. That clearly doesn't reflect the way we play. I watched the Arsenal game - I thought we were great for 70 minutes. The other games people suggest we didn't try which is unacceptable if true - although I suspect that what they mean is "didn't play the way I wanted them to".

However, the point here is that this isn't anything to do with Allardyce. The league has been fragmenting for years. The cl clubs are locked into a cycle of generating more and more revenue from the cl to make them better and better. They even changed the rules (seedings and more group games) to ensure that all the big clubs make it as far as possible. The gulf is growing. Spurs have spent nearly £200m in 3 years trying to break into the club. What was the score yesterday? Fact is, like it or not, there are are at least 2 league now, and probably 3. Our season will be dictated by how we perform against the teams in our "leagues". You might not like it but it's reality. And you could get Mourinho here, or Wenger, or Ferguson and it would still be true I'm afraid.

[ABBEY]

, like it or not, there are are at least 2 league now, and probably 3. Our season will be dictated by how we perform against the teams in our "leagues". You might not like it but it's reality.

yes but against w ham we were too scared to try and win and our leader said it was a good performence.It was the most boring game of my life.i can see him thinking the same against pomps as well.scard to lose.

[thenodrog]

Now I am embarrassed by our attitude against the so-called big boys...'Please don't hurt me Mister'. No-one minds losing against better teams, but setting out to lose by not too many is humiliating, and playing a cr@p system cr@ply just makes it worse.

What's end is this a means to?

Allardyce said at ewood's 'audience with the manager' words to the effect of 'if anybody thinks that we can go toe to toe with the big 4 and outply, outpass and outfootball them they are deluded' His preferred tactic right or wrong is to let them crash on the rocks of our defence, not to worry even if we go 1-0 down and to have a right old go at em in the last 10mins. He's right too, we saw countless teams do it to us in the mid 90's and we must all know that if you don't kill teams off the last 10 can bve very uncomfortable as the anxiety on the terraces is transmitted to the opposing team and manager. At OT yesterday but for Samba being out on his feet after his illness and losing Rooney in the box for possibly the first time, and apart from an absolutely pathetic linesmans decision we would have had a point. We might not have earned it in the eyes of the purist but that's another mattter.

You might not like it but it's reality. And you could get Mourinho here, or Wenger, or Ferguson and it would still be true I'm afraid.

Indeed rth. If there were 20 Alex Fergusons in the Prem 3 would get their teams relegated.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Allardyce said at ewood's 'audience with the manager' words to the effect of 'if anybody thinks that we can go toe to toe with the big 4 and outply, outpass and outfootball them they are deluded' His preferred tactic right or wrong is to let them crash on the rocks of our defence, not to worry even if we go 1-0 down and to have a right old go at em in the last 10mins. He's right too, we saw countless teams do it to us in the mid 90's and we must all know that if you don't kill teams off the last 10 can bve very uncomfortable as the anxiety on the terraces is transmitted to the opposing team and manager. At OT yesterday but for Samba being out on his feet after his illness and losing Rooney in the box for possibly the first time, and apart from an absolutely pathetic linesmans decision we would have had a point. We might not have earned it in the eyes of the purist but that's another mattter.

Indeed rth. If there were 20 Alex Fergusons in the Prem 3 would get their teams relegated.

No they would not as the season would keep going until they could change the rules so no one would relegated or they could find someone else

[jim mk2]

you really are a nice well spoken fella jim.

Gordon's got a big mouth and a small mind, Monsieur l'abbei.

Moving on, still awaiting dulwich's list of alternatives to Allardyce.

It could be a long wait.

[dulwich]

Right, this is going to be my last post for a while. I'm getting married next week, then honeymoon so won't have much time.

I pay my money, I go to watch us week-in, week-out. My support of Blackburn Rovers is unwavering. However, because I have questioned the "unquestionable", I have been derided by the usual "die-hards". I feel increasingly like I'm in a "I'm a bigger supporter then you" competition. So I think it's probably fair that I take some time out.

Many thanks to all with who I have been able to have a reasonable, rationable debate. I've always tried to back up my points and look at things objectively.

See you all around Christmas.

[Steve Moss]

Right, this is going to be my last post for a while. I'm getting married next week, then honeymoon so won't have much time.

Congratulations and best wishes. May you and your wife find much happiness together.

[Stuart]

Right, I've had a look at this away form business.

I'm inclined to ignore the 5 from last season because Sam chose the games he needed to get points from and did so.

With regards to this season's away start, I've compared our results to those teams I'd consider bottom half (where they've played the same teams away):

Sunderland

Rovers 2-1 defeat

West Ham 2-2 draw

Hull City 4-1 defeat

Everton

Rovers 3-0 defeat

Sunderland 3-0 defeat

Wigan 2-1 defeat

Arsenal

Rovers 6-2 defeat

Portsmouth 4-1 defeat

Wigan 4-0 defeat

Chelsea

Rovers 5-0 defeat

Bolton 4-0 defeat

Hull City 2-1 defeat

Man Utd

Rovers 2-0 defeat

Sunderland 2-2 defeat

Bolton 2-1 defeat

...says to me we aren't too far off the pace. Maybe we shouldn't read too much into this poor run, it seems like it's just a fixture pile up.