[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[Blueheart]

A friend who supports Notlob was telling me yesterday that apparrently we currently have the same number of points from the same number of games played when P Ince was sacked by the board.

I was surprised to hear this and admit I haven't checked whether it is true or not.

If it is true, I dont feel that we have the same level of panic or depression that we had with ince and should therefore carry on giving Sam a chance.

[nicko]

A friend who supports Notlob was telling me yesterday that apparrently we currently have the same number of points from the same number of games played when P Ince was sacked by the board.

I was surprised to hear this and admit I haven't checked whether it is true or not.

If it is true, I dont feel that we have the same level of panic or depression that we had with ince and should therefore carry on giving Sam a chance.

Last season after ten games the record was won 3, drawn 3, lost 4.

Followed by a run of won 0, drew 1, lost 6.

In other words, this is not the time to judge managers.

[John]

In other words, this is not the time to judge managers.

Too right, especially after the run of fixtures we have just had.

[bob fleming]

A friend who supports Notlob was telling me yesterday that apparrently we currently have the same number of points from the same number of games played when P Ince was sacked by the board.

Ince was sacked on 16 December last year so Notlob fan is talking out of his hat.

Big month coming up, regardless of the hellish October schedule (and burnley). Let's get some points on the board.

[Hughesy]

A friend who supports Notlob was telling me yesterday that apparrently we currently have the same number of points from the same number of games played when P Ince was sacked by the board.

I was surprised to hear this and admit I haven't checked whether it is true or not.

If it is true, I dont feel that we have the same level of panic or depression that we had with ince and should therefore carry on giving Sam a chance.

Your 'friend' supports a toss team so tell him to keep his analysis to his own team . The key difference is in the post below. Dont think under Ince we had just faced United, Chelsea & Arsenal all away. Also we had just lost to Villa 3-2, a team we beat with 10 men a few weeks back. The time to judge is after 17 games. In the next 7 games, Ince lost 6 and drew 1 - lets see who does better, I know who id put my cash on!!

Too right, especially after the run of fixtures we have just had.

[T4E]

When Ince went weren't we on 13 points from 17 games?

If we win on Sat we'll have the same amount 6 games earlier.

[waggy]

I'm not unhappy about Sam but I'm not ecstatic either. People still need to realise that this team is still NOT Sams team. He's making the best of what he has at the moment and trying to mould them in to what he wants them to be so tactics are dictated by the players available. Whether things change as time goes on and when he brings his own choices in, that is going to be the acid test. Until then, I'm reserving my judgement. He is the right man for the job for one simple fact, he'll keep us up.

what utter crap,not sams team,he has had a year and two tranfer windows,it's not about keeping us up.its about playing football the right way,and improving year on year

[Parsonblue]

what utter crap,not sams team,he has had a year and two tranfer windows,it's not about keeping us up.its about playing football the right way,and improving year on year

Rubbish waggy. Keeping us up is the only thing that matters. Relegation will see a similar slide to that of the late 60's - early 70's. Sam has only one objective - ensure we are playing Premier League football next season. He may have had two transfer windows but he has had very little money in comparison with other teams. While I agree the jury is still out on a couple of his signings, the fact is that we can't have it both ways. We can't have rock bottom prices for tickets and then compete in the transfer market with clubs who are charging far more for tickets than ourselves. Apart from Burnley, Hull and Portsmouth, we are the poor relations in this division.

[John]

Parsonblue, completely agree.

Some people on here need to take a reality check and put personal agendas against the manager to one side if possible.

[waggy]

Rubbish waggy. Keeping us up is the only thing that matters. Relegation will see a similar slide to that of the late 60's - early 70's. Sam has only one objective - ensure we are playing Premier League football next season. He may have had two transfer windows but he has had very little money in comparison with other teams. While I agree the jury is still out on a couple of his signings, the fact is that we can't have it both ways. We can't have rock bottom prices for tickets and then compete in the transfer market with clubs who are charging far more for tickets than ourselves. Apart from Burnley, Hull and Portsmouth, we are the poor relations in this division.

poor relations we maybe,but he's wasted 10 million so far

[sparkspakespoke]

poor relations we maybe,but he's wasted 10 million so far

Wasted 10 million? ? Care to elaborate?

[waggy]

Wasted 10 million? ? Care to elaborate?

6 million on nicola,and giving sadargo a 4 million contract

[broadsword]

Rubbish waggy. Keeping us up is the only thing that matters.

With that sort of mindset, we'll end up getting relemegated.

Souness used to get absolutely slaughtered on here for saying his sole objective was to keep us up. Yet he managed to do it without playing anti-football.

How times change.

[sparkspakespoke]

6 million on nicola,and giving sadargo a 4 million contract

Very premature to write off Nicola mate, its not even Christmas! He has been looking more and more promising and its been a while since we signed a young player with promise. I agree Salgardo seems a puzzling signing as we are well covered at rightback. Is the 4 million you quote an actual figure or just guess work?

[AndyC]

With that sort of mindset, we'll end up getting relemegated.

Souness used to get absolutely slaughtered on here for saying his sole objective was to keep us up. Yet he managed to do it without playing anti-football.

How times change.

souness arguably had a much more talented pool of players to choose from.

the league has moved on so much since then though. Consistent years of spending next to nothing versus the competition makes it much harder each year that goes by just to stay in the league.

[T4E]

With that sort of mindset, we'll end up getting relemegated.

Souness used to get absolutely slaughtered on here for saying his sole objective was to keep us up. Yet he managed to do it without playing anti-football.

How times change.

Even those 6 or so short years ago Bryan the Prem was very very different. How many billionaire owners were there then? We could realistically expect to be aiming higher than "just staying up". These days it's totally different.

[Paul]

Last season after ten games the record was won 3, drawn 3, lost 4.

Followed by a run of won 0, drew 1, lost 6.

In other words, this is not the time to judge managers.

OK I can accept that arguement but it implies that around 10.00pm on December 15th would be a fair time to judge a manager. Ince had 13 points from 17 games at that time and got sacked, it's almost unimaginable that Allardyce will achieve the same appalling total. To date he's 2 points and 4 places behind Ince after 10 games.

[T4E]

OK I can accept that arguement but it implies that around 10.00pm on December 15th would be a fair time to judge a manager. Ince had 13 points from 17 games at that time and got sacked, it's almost unimaginable that Allardyce will achieve the same appalling total. To date he's 2 points and 4 places behind Ince after 10 games.

Surely you can see that comparison doesnt work Paul. If Ince had kept up the form of the first 10 games he wouldnt have been sacked at all. For Sam to be around the same now, although not ideal, is hardly something to be worried about.

I don't recall Ince having to face Arsenal, Chelsea and Man United away all in the space of one month, either.

[Paul]

What I will be comparing is the performance at 17 games which is when Ince was sacked. Regardless of the teams we have faced, and there is a remarkable similarity between this season and last, over the first ten fixtures no one can deny Allardyce has fewer points on the board than Ince did at this stage. I appreciate we have just played three of the top four sides away, last season in the first ten games we lost 4-0 and 2-0 respectively to Arsenal and Utd and our 12th home game of the season was Chelsea (lost 2-0). If we are honest there is little to suggest we will beat them at home this time and Allardyce lost to all those sides away last season as well.

I'll start to make my judgement on 15th December when Allardyce will have had 17 games as did Ince. On top of this Allardyce will have had advantages Ince did not enjoy, namely: years of PL experience, two full transfer windows, close on 12 months with the squad.

I'm look for the improvement and haven't seen any yet. The football we play is very poor and is supposedly designed to get a percentage of results. I will happily agree Allardyce is doing better than Ince when the points on the board AND league position prove it. At the moment they don't and we could be bottom three tonight if WHAM do the business!

[T4E]

I'm look for the improvement and haven't seen any yet.

You saw it last season. Ince took 13 points in 17 games (0.76 ppg), Sam took 28 points from 21 games (1.33 ppg). Thats an improvement no matter how you dress it up, and its an improvement that kept us in the Premier League. I'm happy to wager with you that once you compare after 17 games, there will also be an improvement shown on the same stage last season.

I'm no Allardyce disciple, but negative comparisons to Ince are just ridiculous.

[Paul]

Last season is gone. I fully agree we will be better of this season, and did say earlier it was "unimaginable" that Allardyce would not better this. I'll not tkae your bet because we both know what the outcome will be. As I say it's unimaginable that we will be worse off. I think league position will be crucial as much as points on the board. How much better off remains to be seen. I've predicted 15-16th spot after several weeks of flirting with relegation....I'm sticking with that.

[47er]

what utter crap,not sams team,he has had a year and two tranfer windows,it's not about keeping us up.its about playing football the right way,and improving year on year

2 transfer windows but NO nett money ie had to sell to buy. Tiresome stuff.

What I will be comparing is the performance at 17 games which is when Ince was sacked. Regardless of the teams we have faced, and there is a remarkable similarity between this season and last, over the first ten fixtures no one can deny Allardyce has fewer points on the board than Ince did at this stage. I appreciate we have just played three of the top four sides away, last season in the first ten games we lost 4-0 and 2-0 respectively to Arsenal and Utd and our 12th home game of the season was Chelsea (lost 2-0). If we are honest there is little to suggest we will beat them at home this time and Allardyce lost to all those sides away last season as well.

I'll start to make my judgement on 15th December when Allardyce will have had 17 games as did Ince. On top of this Allardyce will have had advantages Ince did not enjoy, namely: years of PL experience, two full transfer windows, close on 12 months with the squad.

I'm look for the improvement and haven't seen any yet. The football we play is very poor and is supposedly designed to get a percentage of results. I will happily agree Allardyce is doing better than Ince when the points on the board AND league position prove it. At the moment they don't and we could be bottom three tonight if WHAM do the business!

Try to remember what Ince did with his transfer window and rejoice that he never got a second one.

[thenodrog]

Last season after ten games the record was won 3, drawn 3, lost 4.

Followed by a run of won 0, drew 1, lost 6.

In other words, this is not the time to judge managers.

Don't waste your time bringing common sense to this debate Alan. BRFC's very own 5th columnists will not be denied till they cause maximum damage. If we win the next 6 on the bounce they will still be lurking and waiting for the next loss and / or first sign of disharmony / unrest amongst the players.

As someone once observed about disloyal fans "Take no notice of em, that lot have champagne tastes on beer money".

[T4E]

Don't waste your time bringing common sense to this debate Alan. BRFC's very own 5th columnists will not be denied till they cause maximum damage. If we win the next 6 on the bounce they will still be lurking and waiting for the next loss and / or first sign of disharmony / unrest amongst the players.

As someone once observed about disloyal fans "Take no notice of em, that lot have champagne tastes on beer money".

As much as I agree with you Gord, I do find it hilarious when you accuse fans of being disloyal, given your Ince/Golf stance.

[American]

You saw it last season. Ince took 13 points in 17 games (0.76 ppg), Sam took 28 points from 21 games (1.33 ppg). Thats an improvement no matter how you dress it up, and its an improvement that kept us in the Premier League. I'm happy to wager with you that once you compare after 17 games, there will also be an improvement shown on the same stage last season.

I'm no Allardyce disciple, but negative comparisons to Ince are just ridiculous.

But both of those are decreases on the prior couple of seasons under Hughes.

At the very least, we should expect to finish better than Wigan and Bolton, and be pushing for a top 12 position, not be worried about the relegation places.