[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[Fife Rover]

Both claim to be BRFC fans, both claim to have watched Rovers for years ...... but I'm not even sure they are the same species!

Whatever, It's l'il ol BRFC fans against the rest remember. Anybody with the best interests of the club at heart cannot allow the divisive bickering that is happening on this board to continue. It's like a cancer and needs cutting out. A small club like us has to be united it's as simple as that. I fear the discontent is spreading to the more 'impressionable'.

Given that we are currently mid-table after seemingly without a fight losing one of the best managers that this club has had since the 60's, replacing him with an absolute numpty who would have taken us down the divisions for sure, and then in turn replacing him with an ex manager of our local rivals (who incidentally was in the final two for the England job and came for nowt) then selling / disposing of 4/5 of the best players on the books our current position is a minor miracle and needs to be seen and respected as such by all who claim to have the clubs welfare at heart.

Can any of the discontented on here please outline how their current input will help the club through the stormy waters of the Prem? If not then please simply stay away. If that isn't good enough then please write / talk / criticise directly to John Williams. The buck stops at his desk not Sam Allardyces. Like him of loathe him just rem that it was Williams who appointed Allardyce, it was Williams who appointed Paul Ince and it was Williams who on the face of it (imo) contributed a significant extent to Mark Hughes leaving.

I think you are being much more than a little unfair there Theno; I am sure the "blame" lies far more with the Walker Trust on the one hand, and the unfettered greed of players, their agents, other clubs, and The PL itself. All of which together have made certain that clubs like Rovers and Burnley and any other "small"club which does not enjoy the luxury of having a fabulously wealthy owner is bound to go only in one direction, and that is downwards.

This is a fact of football today, and may it soon come to grief on it's own rottenness and greed.

[unluckymorton]

i started following the rovers in div 3,the early 70's before that i went with my dad.well i loved the 3rd division,loved the 2nd division,loved the premier league,and then came lardarse.pb is a oap hughsey,can't see that lardarse and his negative football will do more harm to rovers than relagation.the club want to take a long hard look at the manager and his ways,40k a week for a pensioner,how much of that is being spread about in bolton.6 million for some one he saw on u-tube,picks his boyfriend everyweek when he is the worst player on the pitch.next season they might as well give the season tickets away,because if lardarse is in charge it will be a record low for the premier

It's really hurting not going to the Rovers isn't it wag. Why don't you swallow your pride and carry on supporting the CLUB that you have supported for al these years?

Personally, I also support the manager and the players that are chosen to play on the day because that's what I beleive supporting a football club is all about. Through thick and thin and all that business.

[Hughesy]

Attendance has of sheer necessity (not choice) had to go by the way on many diferent occasions and for many different reasons, but lack of performance from team or manager was NEVER one of the reasons and NEVER will be.

Personally, I also support the manager and the players that are chosen to play on the day because that's what I beleive supporting a football club is all about. Through thick and thin and all that business.

Thats more like it lads.

Trench mentality - in it together...BRING IT ON!

As for this season, we havent been amazing, but sat on joint 12th im FAR from worried about the season ahead. I think 10th and 3 places higher than planned (£2.4m ish) is very realistic, if not higher!

[Exiled in Toronto]

Parson Blue makes a good argument, and it is one he has made before, which I would paraphrase as,'anything at this level is better than what we had in the lower divisions; we do it on a relative shoestring and, if we go down, we will most likely do a Southampton/Charlton and it'll all be over.

But I, for one, do not find it convincing, and here's why:

i) We are indeed enjoying our longest run at this level since the '30s, but we live in a very different world. Sky has totally changed the finances of football since then and we have benefited from their previously unimaginable sums for all but 2 years of the Premier Leagues existence. PLUS, we have had 100 million injected by Jack. This cumulative windfall of probably a quarter of a BILLION pounds, has, or should have, banished the bad old days forever. People grumble on here we can't compete with Stoke because their owner has chucked in a few quid, but over the last 17 years we have received many times their income. Even more so Burnely, and yet we should be grateful to be BELOW these teams? We have also cashed in the Hughes legacy of some 28+ million net from the sales of Bentley, RSC and Warnock. When was the last time Stoke received 18 million for a player?

ii) PB presents only 2 alternatives: any old garbage under Sam or oblivion. I doubt there is a single fan of any other of our peer clubs who wishes that they played like us. There was a poll on here a while ago: would you prefer performance or results - same false choice, they are not alternatives as in the more of one automatically means the less of another. In at least half of our games this season we haven't had either and in the majority of the games we won we had both (at least until the manager panicked at the thought that remaining on top would somehow increase or chances of chucking a lead away). I agree he is here to stay until he gets a better offer, but that does not mean we should delude ourselves that it is entertaining when it is not.

iii) Our current position is a misleading one. We have yet to play any of the top 5 at home. Being realistic, we'll be lucky to get one point from those. That leaves another 7 home games, and we've already played 3 of the bottom 4, so our other 7 will be a bit harder than our first 7, but let's assume we keep up the current run rate of 4-2-1. So, before taking into account our away games, I reckon we will have, at best, 32 points on the board. Away, we still have to go to Spurs, Liverpool, Villa and City - null points there - leaving at least 8 from the remaining 7 games: a big ask given our efforts to date. Last season while Allardyce was in charge, largely using the inherited personnel and formation, we were on European qualification form. This season, playing much more with Allardyce players and formation, we will be a long way from that. So it can be better - he showed us last season.

iv) It does not seem to me that the unhappy ones are the post '95 fans and the glad to be here crowd are the old timers. In fact, I am surprised, given how few of us there were, how many of the unhappy posters are from the 70s or even earlier.

[Steve Moss]

Mathematically, we are on track for a 47-48 point season. And that is playing more top ten teams than bottom ten teams. So we have every right to be optimistic.

[unluckymorton]

Thats more like it lads.

Trench mentality - in it together...BRING IT ON!

As for this season, we havent been amazing, but sat on joint 12th im FAR from worried about the season ahead. I think 10th and 3 places higher than planned (£2.4m ish) is very realistic, if not higher!

I think if we are all honest we've all got to be satisfied with the position we're in. If you listen to the likes of waggy we're dead certs for relegation and will never do anything under Sam. However with the quarter final of the League Cup tonight and some decent fixtures in December I think the season so far is more of a success than a failure. I'd certainly put up with scrappy football week in week out to grind out results than do a West Brom and play pretty football and sit at the foot of the league all season.

Good work Sam and the team, keep it up. It'll take time to build the right squad on a shoe string budget but we've got to be patient and wait a couple of seasons then it will all be worth it.

[Hughesy]

iii) Our current position is a misleading one. We have yet to play any of the top 5 at home. Being realistic, we'll be lucky to get one point from those. That leaves another 7 home games, and we've already played 3 of the bottom 4, so our other 7 will be a bit harder than our first 7, but let's assume we keep up the current run rate of 4-2-1. So, before taking into account our away games, I reckon we will have, at best, 32 points on the board. Away, we still have to go to Spurs, Liverpool, Villa and City - null points there - leaving at least 8 from the remaining 7 games: a big ask given our efforts to date.

Last season while Allardyce was in charge, largely using the inherited personnel and formation, we were on European qualification form. This season, playing much more with Allardyce players and formation, we will be a long way from that. So it can be better - he showed us last season.

We are 3pts off 8th - not far from European spots if you look at it that way.

As for current position being misleading - your right, we would be higher should we not of faced United, Chelsea & Arsenal all away already. 1 goal would take us above Burnley for example.

Bolton have only played United away of those 3

Hull have yet to visit Chelsea, Arsenal or United

Or lets look at teams just above us.....

Brum still have to go to Chelsea & Arsenal

Fulham have yet to face any of the big 4 away

Stoke have yet to visit Chelsea, Arsenal or United

Burnley have yet to visit United or Arsenal

Give the season time to unfold....Burnley have apparently made a good start to the season yet, Hull were 5th last Xmas and almost went down, and this time the Dingles have less points than them!

Sooooo much un-called for negativity!

[den]

iv) It does not seem to me that the unhappy ones are the post '95 fans and the glad to be here crowd are the old timers. In fact, I am surprised, given how few of us there were, how many of the unhappy posters are from the 70s or even earlier.

There probably isn't that divide in opinions between the newer fans and the older ones EIT and I can only speak for myself here, - but - the problem for me isn't Sam's style of football, or even the results of late. Overall neither of those things have been "that" bad. It's the change of direction that's so very evident. From being a club that regularly voiced optimism for the future, - only a couple of seasons ago Hughesy set the players the target of getting into Europe, we have become a club that gives the fans no hope for the future. No money and having to sell the best players only takes us one way. That's the way the older fans have seen us go before.

[LeChuck]

iii) Our current position is a misleading one. We have yet to play any of the top 5 at home.

We have played Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea away. They are probably the three hardest games we'll have all year. We're more likely to get something from those teams at home than we are away.

I really don't understand most of your posts anymore, I used to enjoy them as well.

[unluckymorton]

Parson Blue makes a good argument, and it is one he has made before, which I would paraphrase as,'anything at this level is better than what we had in the lower divisions; we do it on a relative shoestring and, if we go down, we will most likely do a Southampton/Charlton and it'll all be over.

But I, for one, do not find it convincing, and here's why:

i) We are indeed enjoying our longest run at this level since the '30s, but we live in a very different world. Sky has totally changed the finances of football since then and we have benefited from their previously unimaginable sums for all but 2 years of the Premier Leagues existence. PLUS, we have had 100 million injected by Jack. This cumulative windfall of probably a quarter of a BILLION pounds, has, or should have, banished the bad old days forever. People grumble on here we can't compete with Stoke because their owner has chucked in a few quid, but over the last 17 years we have received many times their income. Even more so Burnely, and yet we should be grateful to be BELOW these teams? We have also cashed in the Hughes legacy of some 28+ million net from the sales of Bentley, RSC and Warnock. When was the last time Stoke received 18 million for a player?

ii) PB presents only 2 alternatives: any old garbage under Sam or oblivion. I doubt there is a single fan of any other of our peer clubs who wishes that they played like us. There was a poll on here a while ago: would you prefer performance or results - same false choice, they are not alternatives as in the more of one automatically means the less of another. In at least half of our games this season we haven't had either and in the majority of the games we won we had both (at least until the manager panicked at the thought that remaining on top would somehow increase or chances of chucking a lead away). I agree he is here to stay until he gets a better offer, but that does not mean we should delude ourselves that it is entertaining when it is not.

iii) Our current position is a misleading one. We have yet to play any of the top 5 at home. Being realistic, we'll be lucky to get one point from those. That leaves another 7 home games, and we've already played 3 of the bottom 4, so our other 7 will be a bit harder than our first 7, but let's assume we keep up the current run rate of 4-2-1. So, before taking into account our away games, I reckon we will have, at best, 32 points on the board. Away, we still have to go to Spurs, Liverpool, Villa and City - null points there - leaving at least 8 from the remaining 7 games: a big ask given our efforts to date. Last season while Allardyce was in charge, largely using the inherited personnel and formation, we were on European qualification form. This season, playing much more with Allardyce players and formation, we will be a long way from that. So it can be better - he showed us last season.

iv) It does not seem to me that the unhappy ones are the post '95 fans and the glad to be here crowd are the old timers. In fact, I am surprised, given how few of us there were, how many of the unhappy posters are from the 70s or even earlier.

Along way from that, in fact we are 3 points behind Man City and 6 points behind Liverpool. Not bad running up to Christmas.

[sweet]

Along way from that, in fact we are 3 points behind Man City and 6 points behind Liverpool. Not bad running up to Christmas.

Both teams who are underperforming, and who will no doubt over the course of the season pull away from us on points - by some distance.

More pratically, I expect us to be aiming to better Sunderland & Fulhams points tally, both who I consider to be more on our level. The table shows that fulham are 2 points ahead, and sunderland 3. For me this is dissapointing and I hope we can overtake them.

So rather than congratulating ourselves on being 6 points away from a severly underperforming team, we should be aiming to catch up our real rivals in this league, and be judging ourselves upon that measure.

[Exiled in Toronto]

We have played Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea away. They are probably the three hardest games we'll have all year. We're more likely to get something from those teams at home than we are away.

I used to believe that, but not any more. Was it calendar year 2006 we beat all of the top 4? Now, those 3 at home are our 4th, 5th and 6th hardest games of the year and not because they have got any better.

I really don't understand most of your posts anymore, I used to enjoy them as well.

I do apologise, I'll try harder. Perhaps its because I don't really enjoy watching Rovers any more. I can barely be bothered to look up from my newspaper to the tv in most of the games. Watching a keeper who can't save or catch punting it up to a centre half who can't direct a header for it to occasionally fall at the feet of players who can't shoot depresses me immensely.

[Hughesy]

More pratically, I expect us to be aiming to better Sunderland & Fulhams points tally, both who I consider to be more on our level. The table shows that fulham are 2 points ahead, and sunderland 3. For me this is dissapointing and I hope we can overtake them.

we should be aiming to catch up our real rivals in this league, and be judging ourselves upon that measure.

Sunderland more on our level? Spending £20m on strikers this last summer alone?

As for Toronto are you on anti-depressants or something? I think you should be!!

Is that the same keeper that saved a one-on one against Stoke you mean?

[TimmyJimmy]

There probably isn't that divide in opinions between the newer fans and the older ones EIT and I can only speak for myself here, - but - the problem for me isn't Sam's style of football, or even the results of late. Overall neither of those things have been "that" bad. It's the change of direction that's so very evident. From being a club that regularly voiced optimism for the future, - only a couple of seasons ago Hughesy set the players the target of getting into Europe, we have become a club that gives the fans no hope for the future. No money and having to sell the best players only takes us one way. That's the way the older fans have seen us go before.

Damn it Den, I'm beginning to think you're one of my multiple personalities. I was just going to post almost exactly the same thing.

I haven't read anything on this board to suggest that any of the contributors will ever stop being 100% BRFC supporters. Everyone has opinions and everyone has axes to grind but that doesn't mean one set of posters is pro the club and one set is against. I, like everyone, am a supporter with all that goes with it. Sam is part of the club and so are his players and so is his team selection, so is his formation, so is JW and his decisions, so is the Trust and their whims. We take it all together, embrace it and carry one. We support the club. End of.

Within that support it's OK to suggest areas for improvement or moan about things that don't go well, but it should all be in the context of 'gentle suggestion' amongst like minded souls and not the vitriol and hand to hand combat we see from time to time. For some reason Waggy comes to mind. There are lot's of lively threads on here and I enjoy all of them but am heartily sick of people who seem to moan just for the sake of moaning. The more they moan the more depressed they get, the flight (Waggy) or fight (EIT) response kicks in and everyones at loggerheads.

For my part, one 'gentle' comment I want to make is that I agree with your point about optimism. I want it again please. The problem is in my head for sure but I'm just not as happy or content or optimistic with the games I watch each week. It's for me to fix I know (a few pints help but they wear off) but hands up if you really feel confident about our chances when we kick off any game these days.

Our points total is OK, our position is OK but something isn't and I can't quite put my finger on it.

Until recently I always believed we had really good players who, on their day, could roll any team over. Most of the time we didn't but that's not the point it always felt like we could. Right now we seem to be playing percentage football and have distinctly average players. A good result always surprises me. Percentage play and scoring from set pieces is random by definition, you cannot plan (legally) for a foul/free kick, neither can you plan for a penalty or a corner. They just turn up and random moments. If our game is based on taking full advantage of random events then that probably explains why I'm feeling down about our prospects.

The good performances at Ewood this season have all come in the face of adversity ie when the tactics we took onto the field failed and we had to do something else. The 'something else' that brought these results (and the points) is what I want to see every week. It's not correct to blame 451 but it's a convenient placeholder to describe the lack of ambition or belief in creativity and the benefits of pressure and closing people down. Closing down (get into them), pressure (ooh aah), and creativity (walking down the .... to see the Blackburn aces) leads to what we always enjoyed over the years - optimism.

That being said, nothing will shake my passion for the club, and I'll be supporting Sam and the staff no matter how they set things up, might not enjoy it, but I'll be supporting them (and passing the odd comment).

[ABBEY]

Sunderland more on our level? Spending £20m on strikers this last summer alone?

As for Toronto are you on anti-depressants or something? I think you should be!!

Is that the same keeper that saved a one-on one against Stoke you mean?

Newcastle .leeds.qpr have or have spent more than us so how's it relevant .

[broadsword]

Sunderland more on our level? Spending £20m on strikers this last summer alone?

As for Toronto are you on anti-depressants or something? I think you should be!!

Is that the same keeper that saved a one-on one against Stoke you mean?

I'm quite a happy-go-lucky kind of chap, but watchiong Rovers depresses me at the moment as well.

There's no buzz about the club at all, it's like being at an emo re-union.

Oh yes, and robinson must be the new gordon Banks then if he saved a one-on-one. The bloke couldn't catch a cold. More like the new Gary Sprake. I honestly think we'd be better off getting shot of him and recallin Bunn. Would free up a bit of cash for midfield.

[T4E]

Oh yes, and robinson must be the new gordon Banks then if he saved a one-on-one. The bloke couldn't catch a cold. More like the new Gary Sprake. I honestly think we'd be better off getting shot of him and recallin Bunn. Would free up a bit of cash for midfield.

How on Earth have you managed to form that opinion? Crazy. If it wasn't for Robbo we would have lost on Saturday.

[broadsword]

I didn't see him on Saturday.

When I have seen him, he hasn't looked dependable.

[sweet]

Sunderland more on our level? Spending £20m on strikers this last summer alone?

As for Toronto are you on anti-depressants or something? I think you should be!!

Is that the same keeper that saved a one-on one against Stoke you mean?

I'm not interested in how much they spent, roy keane spent millions beforehand, but they did absolutely crap. Does that still mean that Sunderland were above our level back then?

I'm speaking about the quality of team, not quality of bank balance.

[CrazyIvan]

I didn't see him on Saturday.

When I have seen him, he hasn't looked dependable.

He pulled off a blinding save that he had no right to. He is much better than people make out. I saw Gomez beaten by a well placed shot that bounced twice before it got to him. It happens. I think keepers are generally getting a raw deal and Robbo in particular. The current ball they use is much lighter, flies faster and moves a hell of a lot more than any other I've seen in the pro game.

I can see where a lot of you are coming from regarding how we seem to be set up at the moment. A sum up... A club without money looking to just stay there, a squad of players who look average and percentage football played quite a bit of the time. The only bit I actually disagree with is the percentage football. Use the Guardian football thingie and look where most of the play is, i.e. who makes the most passes and where. It's surprising what you find. You can see we use the 'wingers' a great deal more than expected. Thing is, Emerton isn't really a winger but more a right sided midfielder and Diouf is ice-berg slow in thought and deed most of the time. Given an on form Pedersen (that seems to be an impossibility these days at least for any length of time) and a decent header of the ball up front (Benni, Roberts and Di Santo aren't) and things would look a lot different. (Dare I saw Davies?) I can see what Sam wants to do but he can't do it with some of the players we have. We really need someone to stand up and take the pressure off by scoring a few goals and by that I mean a striker. If that happened we would be higher up the league and looking like contenders in every match rather than out-played, out-fought and out-thought against the top sides.

[mellison24]

He pulled off a blinding save that he had no right to. He is much better than people make out. I saw Gomez beaten by a well placed shot that bounced twice before it got to him. It happens. I think keepers are generally getting a raw deal and Robbo in particular. The current ball they use is much lighter, flies faster and moves a hell of a lot more than any other I've seen in the pro game.

I can see where a lot of you are coming from regarding how we seem to be set up at the moment. A sum up... A club without money looking to just stay there, a squad of players who look average and percentage football played quite a bit of the time. The only bit I actually disagree with is the percentage football. Use the Guardian football thingie and look where most of the play is, i.e. who makes the most passes and where. It's surprising what you find. You can see we use the 'wingers' a great deal more than expected. Thing is, Emerton isn't really a winger but more a right sided midfielder and Diouf is ice-berg slow in thought and deed most of the time. Given an on form Pedersen (that seems to be an impossibility these days at least for any length of time) and a decent header of the ball up front (Benni, Roberts and Di Santo aren't) and things would look a lot different. (Dare I saw Davies?) I can see what Sam wants to do but he can't do it with some of the players we have. We really need someone to stand up and take the pressure off by scoring a few goals and by that I mean a striker. If that happened we would be higher up the league and looking like contenders in every match rather than out-played, out-fought and out-thought against the top sides.

You may agree or not, but I have two words for that: Nikola Kalinic. He should be playing! He has looked VERY decent whenever he has played (including against Fulham, Chelsea and ManYoo) scoring a legitimate goal against the latter! He can hold-up the ball, pass, shoot and is a lot stronger than when he first signed. He gets more impressive with every appearance imo. I'd say send DiSanto back and play Kalinic (although I'd sooner keep DiSanto ALONGSIDE Kalinic myself).

[Hughesy]

Oh yes, and robinson must be the new gordon Banks then if he saved a one-on-one. The bloke couldn't catch a cold. More like the new Gary Sprake. I honestly think we'd be better off getting shot of him and recallin Bunn. Would free up a bit of cash for midfield.

He saved us a point on saturday...he pulled off some very good saves at Chelsea.....thats without even thinking about other good/ important saves.

He pulled off a blinding save that he had no right to. He is much better than people make out. I saw Gomez beaten by a well placed shot that bounced twice before it got to him. It happens. I think keepers are generally getting a raw deal and Robbo in particular. The current ball they use is much lighter, flies faster and moves a hell of a lot more than any other I've seen in the pro game.

I agree Robbo gets much more flak than most - despite saving plenty of good efforts.

I'm not interested in how much they spent, roy keane spent millions beforehand, but they did absolutely crap. Does that still mean that Sunderland were above our level back then?

I'm speaking about the quality of team, not quality of bank balance.

Strikers - Bent is better than any of ours

Midfield - Cattermole or Cana are both better than what we have....Maybe Richardson too

Defence - Turner is a very good player - full backs I agree are poor

Keeper - We win slightly.

They have money to throw at it...we dont. Its not our 'right' to be above them, its an over-achievement if we do.

[sweet]

He saved us a point on saturday...he pulled off some very good saves at Chelsea.....thats without even thinking about other good/ important saves.

I agree Robbo gets much more flak than most - despite saving plenty of good efforts.

Strikers - Bent is better than any of ours

Midfield - Cattermole or Cana are both better than what we have....Maybe Richardson too

Defence - Turner is a very good player - full backs I agree are poor

Keeper - We win slightly.

They have money to throw at it...we dont. Its not our 'right' to be above them, its an over-achievement if we do.

If we could get McCarthy performing(or should I say playing), in the same way Bruce has done with Bent. It would be pretty even.

I'd say our defence was miles better than sunderlands. Not only in the starting 4, but in the depth we have.

[joey_big_nose]

If we could get McCarthy performing(or should I say playing), in the same way Bruce has done with Bent. It would be pretty even.

I'd say our defence was miles better than sunderlands. Not only in the starting 4, but in the depth we have.

Bent is a massively better player than Benni. He has pace and movement and can score on his own. Benni needs someone else to put the legwork in for him and create the space so he can finish.

Plus they have Jones who is a brilliant player on his day (although sometimes he is rubbish). And their midfield is much better than ours.

And on paper our defence should be much better, but we have let in tons of goals.

Sunderland are a much better side than us unfortunately. But thats what you get when you spend £20m+ wisely like Bruce has. Cana, Cattermole and Bent have all been very good purchases.

[Eddie]

Benni can create his own chances. He can't be used like Bent because he isn't as quick, but to say he can't create his own chances is ignoring what he did in his first season with us. He will create more chances for others than Bent does. Quite frankly, he simply has to be involved for me.