[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[gumboots]

Tell him Gumboots!

I don't need to tell him. Just invite anyone who thinks it's an easy job to come in and do it themselves for a term and see if you can cope.

[broadsword]

I know enough from hannah to know that it's a killer job, and it doesn't end at the end of the school day.

I wouldn't like to do it.

[unluckymorton]

I don't need to tell him. Just invite anyone who thinks it's an easy job to come in and do it themselves for a term and see if you can cope.

I'll swap jobs with a teacher for a term no worries, they'd be crying for their job back within hours. (sorry Dawn!)

Anyway, lets back on topic...

[Paul]

This blog has a bit about Sam in it (near the bottom).

http://www.telegraph...inal-third.html

Proper journalism:

Don't play it again Sam, you can't win a war against Blackburn fans

Most in the game would stand Big Sam a pint. Most that is outside Blackburn. The friends he needs most are not among his fellow managers or in the media, where he enjoys some popularity, but in the stands at Ewood Park. Some hope.

This is the era of Arsenal and Barcelona, an age in which the way you play matters not only for its own sake but for the results yielded. Allardyce appears locked in a time warp that distrusts the new aesthetic; that pins all on outcomes. The Blackburn fans are telling him that they have had enough of dreary, attritional football. They want a bit of Arsenal, a bit of Barcelona.

What does Sam do? He pours disdain on those who pay to watch by dismissing them as “experts”. That’s worse than insulting the wife’s mother, much as she might deserve it. The customer is always right, Sam. Taking on the fans is not a winnable war. Ask Gary Megson, who would argue he did a decent job keeping Bolton up.

Making the Carling Cup semi-finals is not evidence of sustained success, as Allardyce suggested before the defeat at Aston Villa. Blackburn could not get enough of their fans there, even though the club were picking up the bill.

If you can’t give the fans the football they want, at least give them the respect they deserve.

[Miker]

What does Sam do? He pours disdain on those who pay to watch by dismissing them as “experts”. That’s worse than insulting the wife’s mother, much as she might deserve it. The customer is always right, Sam. Taking on the fans is not a winnable war. Ask Gary Megson, who would argue he did a decent job keeping Bolton up.

False. The customer is usually a douchebag. Anyone who works in any sort of business knows this. Customers are the people who pay for your services and think they know how to do your job better than you, unfortunately they have no idea how your business works and the limitations you have of running it on a higher level or to their "perfect" standards. So they'll just yell and moan until you do something, and you probably will, but you won't get it done with instant results/effect like they always demand.

Customers are spoilt, impatient and arrogant. Like with any business, customers are free to choose a different business if they are not happy with their current one. So fans are free to travel to other cities to support teams there and pay their ridiculously overpriced ticket costs if they're looking for "better" football. You pay for what you get and if customers provided more constructive criticism to a business then the company would be able to get to a higher standard a lot quicker and easier (proven fact).

[Kelbo]

False. The customer is usually a douchebag. Anyone who works in any sort of business knows this. Customers are the people who pay for your services and think they know how to do your job better than you, unfortunately they have no idea how your business works and the limitations you have of running it on a higher level or to their "perfect" standards. So they'll just yell and moan until you do something, and you probably will, but you won't get it done with instant results/effect like they always demand.

Customers are spoilt, impatient and arrogant. Like with any business, customers are free to choose a different business if they are not happy with their current one. So fans are free to travel to other cities to support teams there and pay their ridiculously overpriced ticket costs if they're looking for "better" football. You pay for what you get and if customers provided more constructive criticism to a business then the company would be able to get to a higher standard a lot quicker and easier (proven fact).

Actually, thats very true!

[Miker]

Actually, thats very true!

I should add that clearly I work in a business, and clearly I have a deep hatred for customers

[MeanGreenMachine]

Balls, the customer is right because they have the cash in the back pocket.

[Tris]

Customers are spoilt, impatient and arrogant. Like with any business, customers are free to choose a different business if they are not happy with their current one. So fans are free to travel to other cities to support teams there

I know you live in Australia, but this post is the biggest load of rubbish you could have ever posted on the fans forum of a Lancashire football club.

You're so out of touch, you should follow your own advice. Choose away.

[jim mk2]

False. The customer is usually a douchebag. Anyone who works in any sort of business knows this. Customers are the people who pay for your services and think they know how to do your job better than you.

If you treat your own customers with such disdain I'm surprised you still have a business !

Customers are spoilt, impatient and arrogant. Like with any business, customers are free to choose a different business if they are not happy with their current one. So fans are free to travel to other cities to support teams there and pay their ridiculously overpriced ticket costs if they're looking for "better" football

Unfortunately true, particularly in Lancashire where there has always been a floating support ever since the 1960s when Manchester and Liverpool became more accessible.

[Mattyblue]

False. The customer is usually a douchebag. Anyone who works in any sort of business knows this. Customers are the people who pay for your services and think they know how to do your job better than you, unfortunately they have no idea how your business works and the limitations you have of running it on a higher level or to their "perfect" standards. So they'll just yell and moan until you do something, and you probably will, but you won't get it done with instant results/effect like they always demand.

Customers are spoilt, impatient and arrogant. Like with any business, customers are free to choose a different business if they are not happy with their current one. So fans are free to travel to other cities to support teams there and pay their ridiculously overpriced ticket costs if they're looking for "better" football. You pay for what you get and if customers provided more constructive criticism to a business then the company would be able to get to a higher standard a lot quicker and easier (proven fact).

You can't apply crude definitons of business and customer service to an emotional issue like football, think the developing financial meltdown of the British game is proving this.

Also, the 'business' that is Blackburn Rovers cannot compete with big city business at the present time, no amount of construcitve criticism is going to change that. Yet, many fans want to be entertained, live their dreams through players showing off their talent, you're telling me fans don't have a right to 'moan'?

Using the Oz/USA model that a businessman like you obviously would support, Blackburn Rovers would have probably lost their Premier League 'franchise' by now, been given to Milton Keynes or somewhere else with no heritage but a bigger market. Thank God, that soul-less system doesnt exist here (with one exception of course)

[Miker]

If you treat your own customers with such disdain I'm surprised you still have a business !

I don't TREAT them with disdain, nor is it my business. I work for a medium-sized company and have worked in a number of departments while I've been here. In every department there's always two constants, the customers are pricks and there's 101 things you can do better if only upper management bothers to put time and money into it.

I really don't want to get dragged into talking about customers because there is just so much frustration there. Basically working in a job like mine, you learn to hate both upper management for lack of support and customers for lack of faith. I have only worked here a couple of years, but I work with people who have been here for 10+ years and they have basically lost the motivation to work because upper management refuses to make improvements and customers treat them like crap, so after working for a while you no longer care and start working just to get that paycheck.

It goes round in a circle, you get frustrated at everyone that's not part of your team and they do the same. So while the fans are frustrated at upper management for not giving enough resources to the manager and the team for not trying hard enough, the manager and the team are frustrated at upper management for the same reasons and at the fans for what seems like a lack of support. The management gets frustrated at fans and team as well etc.

So I support Sam in saying it out in public because he's letting his frustrations be known and there is nothing wrong with that. So if you think I'm out of touch, then whatever, maybe I am. That's just my view from where I'm sitting.

[Miker]

You can't apply crude definitons of business and customer service to an emotional issue like football, think the developing financial meltdown of the British game is proving this.

Also, the 'business' that is Blackburn Rovers cannot compete with big city business at the present time, no amount of construcitve criticism is going to change that. Yet, many fans want to be entertained, live their dreams through players showing off their talent, you're telling me fans don't have a right to 'moan'?

Using the Oz/USA model that a businessman like you obviously would support, Blackburn Rovers would have probably lost their Premier League 'franchise' by now, been given to Milton Keynes or somewhere else with no heritage but a bigger market. Thank God, that soul-less system doesnt exist here (with one exception of course)

1.) I wasn't applying definitions of business to football, the journalist did by saying the "customer is always right", comparing the club to a business and I was just disputing what he wrote in his terms.

2.) I never said fans don't have a right to moan, I only said that they do moan, and moaning is one of the key attributes of fans/customers

3.) I am not a businessman and am not even studying business or ever have, so I have no idea what model you're talking about. I'm just talking from experience working in a company and dealing with residential, business and enterprise customers.

4.) And no, it can't compete with big city business. That's why it's so important to support the club and that's why the prices are so much cheaper than clubs like Arsenal, Liverpool, United and Chelsea.

5.)I'll choose not to argue with you about constructive criticism working/not working, but I don't think booing players and calls to get rid of players and sack managers really help a club struggling for finances. Calls for the team to get more stuck in and be more like the days of Hughes when we made our physical presence felt on the pitch are 100% spot on and I agree, but booing players is something else. There are some values I want the club to uphold, but when it's plainly obvious how much the club is struggling right now and they are doing what they can to fix it, I empathise with Sam when he says "we've tried doing what we can to succeed and we are really disappointed with such a small show of support for the first leg". That's just me though.

[Steve Moss]

I know you live in Australia, but this post is the biggest load of rubbish you could have ever posted on the fans forum of a Lancashire football club.

You're so out of touch, you should follow your own advice. Choose away.

Err, as an American attorney I can tell you that 90% of the customers/clients create their own problems. So 90% of customers are not persons who are always right but are most likely persons in need to correction.

If you treat your own customers with such disdain I'm surprised you still have a business !

In my experience, telling the customer where they screwed the pooch, in a polite fashion, is part of the job description. The other half is fixing the problem.

[Tris]

Err, as an American attorney I can tell you that 90% of the customers/clients create their own problems. So 90% of customers are not persons who are always right but are most likely persons in need to correction.

In my experience, telling the customer where they screwed the pooch, in a polite fashion, is part of the job description. The other half is fixing the problem.

Perhaps what you and Miker don't understand, from 5000 or 10000 miles away, is that BRFC's customers won't swap BRFC for another football club. They will swap football for a more enjoyable Saturday afternoon - full stop.

Right now, that includes shopping for bathroom tiles or cutting the front lawn with scissors. "Go figure" as Bill Gates might say before releasing a patch to mend his flawed products.

[Steve Moss]

Perhaps what you and Miker don't understand, from 5000 or 10000 miles away, is that BRFC's customers won't swap BRFC for another football club. They will swap football for a more enjoyable Saturday afternoon - full stop.

Right now, that includes shopping for bathroom tiles or cutting the front lawn with scissors. "Go figure" as Bill Gates might say before releasing a patch to mend his flawed products.

To date, I've only seen the Rovers of TV. Despite that, from what I've observed, you are being a bit of a drama queen. As a man with a rather full 'honey do' list, I can attest that watching the Rovers is far more enjoyable than "shopping bathroom tiles or cutting the front lawn with scissors." In fact, I can't think of many things more enjoyable than watching the Rovers with a sixpack of Bud (or Guiness, if I'm feeling adverterous, or Arrogant @#/?, if I am being a bit wild and crazy).

[Miker]

Perhaps what you and Miker don't understand, from 5000 or 10000 miles away, is that BRFC's customers won't swap BRFC for another football club. They will swap football for a more enjoyable Saturday afternoon - full stop.

Right now, that includes shopping for bathroom tiles or cutting the front lawn with scissors. "Go figure" as Bill Gates might say before releasing a patch to mend his flawed products.

Well, some customers choose to get rid of the service altogether rather than go to another company, so it's the same thing really.

Again, I'm not saying a football club is EXACTLY like a business, but if you want to bring it down to that level then that's how it is from what I see.

Sam may be wrong, but what he's doing and has done since coming here is tell the fans exactly how he feels and what bugs him, which is fair enough. Some people may be right, he may be looking to retire in a couple of years due to his health, but it's pretty clear that at this point in his career he is letting everyone know exactly what he thinks is wrong with football today and what he's unhappy with. He's done this in his comments about foreign managers, fans' lack of support, McCarthy's selfishness reflective of the selfishness and disloyalty of all modern footballers, poor refereeing and the need for replays, lack of resources creating unfair competition in the league etc.

And I'm sorry, but I feel he had every right to say that about the fans after the first leg because personally I was devastated by the turn out I saw on TV, I can only imagine how Sam and the rest of the team felt. After beating Chelsea to get to the semi, you can't help but expect support and be really let down and angered when it doesn't come.

[RevidgeBlue]

Sam's not exactly wrong with what he's saying, but he should perhaps be a bit more circumspect in saying it.

I bet he screwed us into the ground with his own personal terms when we approached him to take over here, and as others have said he'd probably be away from here like a rat up a drainpipe himself if he was offered a job elsewhere paying more and/ or with some money to spend on players.

[Miker]

Err, as an American attorney I can tell you that 90% of the customers/clients create their own problems. So 90% of customers are not persons who are always right but are most likely persons in need to correction.

In my experience, telling the customer where they screwed the pooch, in a polite fashion, is part of the job description. The other half is fixing the problem.

That's spot on.

[Hughesy]

Proper journalism:

Don't play it again Sam, you can't win a war against Blackburn fans

Proper or poor? He made the 'expert' comment months ago - are they short of something to write or something? Trying to cause more unhappiness amongst the ranks!

[waggy]

Proper or poor? He made the 'expert' comment months ago - are they short of something to write or something? Trying to cause more unhappiness amongst the ranks!

says the guy who has been cliaming dunny would not sign a new contract because of lardarse

[ABBEY]

Waggy ....hughsey is best mates with dunny lol

[Paul]

Err, as an American attorney I can tell you that 90% of the customers/clients create their own problems. So 90% of customers are not persons who are always right but are most likely persons in need to correction.

In my experience, telling the customer where they screwed the pooch, in a polite fashion, is part of the job description. The other half is fixing the problem.

I think as an attorney you're right. I don't mean this in a rude fashion but this is exactly the approach I would expect to encounter from solicitor and / or accountant. People employed in these professions are paid to tell the customer exactly how it is, where they were right / wrong and to fix the problem. However your "industry" is a very different one from most businesses and therefore the more normal customer / supplier relationship the rest of us deal with does not come into play.

Well, some customers choose to get rid of the service altogether rather than go to another company, so it's the same thing really.

Which is exactly the problem Rovers face. I know a considerable number of more casual fans who have stopped going in recent years for a whole variety of reasons. They don't go to Old Trafford instead, they just don't go. With the quality of football on offer I've found myself missing games because I can get more entertainment doing something else. Prior to this year I had missed only three home matches in 27 years. Allardyce has more than doubled that number this season. I had even decided not to go to Turf Moor as I had an alternative, now the date has been changed I can do both things.

Again, I'm not saying a football club is EXACTLY like a business, but if you want to bring it down to that level then that's how it is from what I see.

OK you're right fotball is not exactly like a business to the FANS. However for years, increasingly since the advent of the PL, we have been TOLD football is a business, just like any other, and we have to expect our club to be run like a business. Rovers are in the business of providing entertainment. If football clubs insist on telling fans "it's business" those same clubs cannot be surprised when the fans, presented with awful football, start demanding, as the CUSTOMER of the BUSINESS, that the standard of entertainment be improved. The clubs, or perhaps the PL, cannot have it both ways. I acknowledge Rovers do their best to avoid this approach but it is rammed down our throats by the PL and media every day. No wonder the fans are revolting!

Sam may be wrong, but what he's doing and has done since coming here is tell the fans exactly how he feels and what bugs him, which is fair enough. Some people may be right, he may be looking to retire in a couple of years due to his health, but it's pretty clear that at this point in his career he is letting everyone know exactly what he thinks is wrong with football today and what he's unhappy with. He's done this in his comments about foreign managers, fans' lack of support, McCarthy's selfishness reflective of the selfishness and disloyalty of all modern footballers, poor refereeing and the need for replays, lack of resources creating unfair competition in the league etc.

And I'm sorry, but I feel he had every right to say that about the fans after the first leg because personally I was devastated by the turn out I saw on TV, I can only imagine how Sam and the rest of the team felt. After beating Chelsea to get to the semi, you can't help but expect support and be really let down and angered when it doesn't come.

I can agree with much of what Allardyce says about modern football, foreign managers, foreign players, loyalty, McCarthy etc. He's right about this. However where he is wrong, and this is what gets fans riled up, is to continue to provide outdated, boring, route one football while dismissing the supports opinions with his "I'm the expert remarks." We know we are unlikely to win much all we ask is that along the way we play some decent football. His remarks about the support for the Villa games may have some validity but this is only so if he takes the opportunity to look at the football he is providing. Allardyce cannot simply tell the fans they are wrong, he needs to consider why the fans are not turning up, if after some reflection he still feels he's right so be it.

If you want to turn your own ire on those who attend week after week I'd be a little careful. You might consider Wigan are rumoured to be bringing 300 tonight, we took 4000+ to the DW.

BTW with regard to your comments on customers and senior management. You might consider your frustrations are seen by both and this impacts on the way these people approach you. Have to say anyone demonstrating the views you expressed here wouldn't last five minutes in most SMEs I know. The customer is always right, even when he's wrong - unless you happen to know the customer extremely well.

[Miker]

OK you're right fotball is not exactly like a business to the FANS. However for years, increasingly since the advent of the PL, we have been TOLD football is a business, just like any other, and we have to expect our club to be run like a business. Rovers are in the business of providing entertainment. If football clubs insist on telling fans "it's business" those same clubs cannot be surprised when the fans, presented with awful football, start demanding, as the CUSTOMER of the BUSINESS, that the standard of entertainment be improved. The clubs, or perhaps the PL, cannot have it both ways. I acknowledge Rovers do their best to avoid this approach but it is rammed down our throats by the PL and media every day. No wonder the fans are revolting!

I can agree with much of what Allardyce says about modern football, foreign managers, foreign players, loyalty, McCarthy etc. He's right about this. However where he is wrong, and this is what gets fans riled up, is to continue to provide outdated, boring, route one football while dismissing the supports opinions with his "I'm the expert remarks." We know we are unlikely to win much all we ask is that along the way we play some decent football. His remarks about the support for the Villa games may have some validity but this is only so if he takes the opportunity to look at the football he is providing. Allardyce cannot simply tell the fans they are wrong, he needs to consider why the fans are not turning up, if after some reflection he still feels he's right so be it.

If you want to turn your own ire on those who attend week after week I'd be a little careful. You might consider Wigan are rumoured to be bringing 300 tonight, we took 4000+ to the DW.

If I'm not wrong, and I might be because I don't live in England, but football isn't even the no.1 sport in Wigan, so the fact that they have a small support isn't so surprising. Given this was just a league game against us, a team you say plays boring and outdated football, I don't see why we should expect a lot of Wigan fans to turn up. On the other hand we are talking about a semi final against a decent team (Aston Villa) with a small number of people turning up. Sam wasn't just disappointed at the poor turn out for the away leg, he was also disappointed about the atmosphere of the first leg.

And look, we could argue this all day long, but I have not agreed with many on here that we've played terrible football throughout the season. I am of the opinion that we have played more decent games than not and even with horrid performances like the Sunderland 2-2, there was some sort of excitement at least with us grabbing the equalisers.

I could also quite easily argue that he has looked at his tactics and has chosen to play better football to keep the fans interested in the last 3 games. I could also argue he's done that in games such as Portsmouth when we went from being down 1-0 to winning 3-1 in the second half. It really depends on your perspective and I have been pretty devastated by performances and results this season as well, but there have been enough times when I have been pleased or relieved to not be completely overwhelmed with cynicism.

[Gav]

you are being a bit of a drama queen.

Yes Tris

Its about time Allardyce brought Tugay on board for me, forget about this coaching badge rubbish and get him working for the club again.

Hes already played a blinder in getting Basturk to come here, so do the right thing Allardyce and get him involved.