[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[Paul]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Sam blaming the pitch last night...........apparently it stopped us from playing our usual game

To be fair to him, the pitch looks awful. The players have been training on it I guess because they can't train at Brockhall. Someone might be able to tell us why...

So do you think it's wrong of Sam to try and change the media perception that we play 'hoofball'?

We play far more football than we are given credit for, IMO.

I wasn't having a go at the manager with this remark though I have to say I thought it was hilarious. I know the pitch doesn't look good, which is surprising as we don't use it very much................JOKE

On the serious side it's true we are capable of playing far better football than we get credit for. The problem is we don't play this football very often and this is ultimately down to the manager. I am an Allardyce critic but I'm quite happy to be persuaded otherwise and anyone who read my comments on the Wigan game can see this. I will continue to object to the 4-5-1 formation which leaves a huge gap in midfield, our defence resorting to belting the ball to the half-way line, our striker isolated and simply hands the initiative to the opposition. On the other hand the 4-2-3-1 we appeared to play for 30-35 minutes in the first half against Ewood was a pleasure to watch, and I said so.

[tony gale's mic]

It's fine to slag off the dissent in the stands via this MB (as it is also fine to slag off the manager, or Keith Andrews, or the Trustees via this MB) ... but there were far more people at Ewood Park singing "4-4-2" last night than there are even members of this messageboard, and the club and manager need to retain those fans next season --- so need to listen to them. Because unless Allardyce changes the football, the club will be keeping an unpopular manager at the expense of fans in the stands.

I'd rather slag you off to be honest. You're an idiot who lives in a dreamworld.

Any manager who chooses a formation based on what the crowd want rather than what he thinks is best based on his managerial acumen is the real incompetent. I'm bloody well glad we don't have a manager like that. People slag people off for his expert comment - I think he shouldnt have said it - but he does have a point. There's a reason why he's getting paid millions to do that job and we're not. Fans who think football is as simple as "4-4-2 = attacking, 4-5-1 = defensive" dont even deserve to have their opinions entertained.

I would add more but jim managed to say it for me.

I still don't understand how you could be so pro-Ince, defending him to the death up until very near the end, but so anti-Sam despite him keeping us up and not doing too badly this season. I think it has something to do with you firstly being pretty terrible with your initial judgements, then not being man enough to admit it on an internet forum....

[Tris]

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by tony gale's mic . View it anyway?

I did make the mistake of clicking view anyway this time round, but once I'd got past the personal insults it was clear you've missed the point. Oh well never mind.

[waggy]

talking to a old guy at dinner in the bookies and he says the football is still pi8s poor at ewood,i said why do you go then,he says old habits die hard

[LeChuck]

Those were all youth players or signed for small fees. And we spent the same "fortune" on Kalinic as we did on Andy Cole.

You can't say there isn't enough talent in the current squad to play great football. But someone needs to get them playing it.

Jansen cost over £4 million.

I'm sure a fair bit of Kalinic's fee is made up of add-ons, whereas Cole was a straight transfer (and more than £6 million). Also, we'll see at least our money back on Niko when he goes, we didn't see a penny back on Cole.

Finally the bit in bold...even Stevie Wonder knows there isn't enough talent in our squad to play great football. We simply don't have the players.

I did make the mistake of clicking view anyway this time round, but once I'd got past the personal insults it was clear you've missed the point. Oh well never mind.

Insults aside, he does have a point. Anybody shouting "4-4-2" is just broadcasting their own ignorance. A lot of teams don't play 4-4-2 yet are attacking teams, it's not the numbers that matter. I admit we're very poor sometimes, but that's not because we're not playing a traditional 4-4-2, it's because of other problems.

[unluckymorton]

talking to a old guy at dinner in the bookies and he says the football is still pi8s poor at ewood,i said why do you go then,he says old habits die hard

Thanks for your post wagster. What exactly is your point? Nobody has said that going to Ewood is like watching Brazil.

We SUPPORT our club, you should appreciate our position in the top flight as much as the rest of us who used to go to the delights of Swindon, Grimsby, Carlisle & Shrewsbury in the early '80's.

It's a shame your only source of feedback about the Rovers is from a fella in the bookies.

[mhead]

All this 4-4-2 not 4-5-1 comparison.

Where does the recent Diamond formation fit in?

Our problem has been lack of quality midfielders who do not defend the lost ball quickly enough and do not support the forwards

fast enough.Reid,Pederson and Emerton are the types we need with NZonzi Basturk and Dunn as additional types of Midfield players.

We are a 'work in Progress" and can only make incremental changes due to money. BFS only real fault is his downbeat,sardonic way

amidst this instant marketing age.

[MeanGreenMachine]

Hurrah !

Hands up all those who think we can find a "popular" manager who can provide this mythical "beautiful" football and keep us in the Premier League at the same time while operating at an "unfashionable" club with no money to spend.

He doesn't exist, and if he does I challenge anyone to name him.

Alternatively, let's get rid of Allardyce because although he's doing darn good job on meagre resources he doesn't please a section of supporters who think they know better and let's see how many ST holders will be renewing to watch the team playing pretty football with the cloggers in the championship.

This constant criticism of Allardyce is nonsensical, and idiotic.

Charlton Athletic anyone ?

Funny how this post was made after winning twice on the bounce (against a Fulham side who’s only win away this season came on the opening weekend at Pompey and Wigan who are probs the most inconsistent side in the league).

Was you giving the ‘he is doing a great job, he is the man’ speech when we hadn’t won in 11 games at a very favourable run of games?

Its clear to a blind man we look our best when we pass the ball on the floor, and BFS sometimes has a flash of genius and lets the players play. But all too often when we go under the cosh or we are playing out a result he reverts to the long ball rubbish.

Do I like BFS? Not really, he is pretty arrogant and pig headed in the way he handles the media and his tactics. He will keep us in the premiership and that’s about it. Neither the club nor the manager have the ambition to push the club significantly forward. (See his latest pre match comments for an example of lack of ambition).

[Mr. E]

Like Sam has done the last few games, you mean?

wins do not = good performances. Watch Egypt vs Algeria to understands what a good performance is. We won scrappy affairs, we did not play good football by any stretch of the imagination.

No way. Jansen cost £4.1m. Cole cost £7m+. Plus that was nearly ten years ago. In today's money, Jansen would be the cost of Kalinic (if not more) and a player of Cole's value would be unattainable for us now.

Givet also cost us around 4m, no? Plus let's not forget Salgado's wages.

And today's money is not THAT different, at least for our dealings. We sold Duff for about the same amount we sold Bentley and Santa Cruz in the past couple of years.

The argument that Souness has "so much more money to spend" than BFS really does not hold water, nor those the notion that if BFS has an extra million or two he would suddenly have us playing the football we were producing under Souness.

[LeChuck]

The argument that Souness has "so much more money to spend" than BFS really does not hold water

Yes it does. Souness had money to spend without selling first. Souness had money to spend on players when he didn't have to worry about seeing a return on that money.

I'm amazed that you can argue otherwise. Finances are infinitely worse now than when Souness was in charge.

[CrazyIvan]

And today's money is not THAT different, at least for our dealings. We sold Duff for about the same amount we sold Bentley and Santa Cruz in the past couple of years.

The argument that Souness has "so much more money to spend" than BFS really does not hold water, nor those the notion that if BFS has an extra million or two he would suddenly have us playing the football we were producing under Souness.

Today's money IS that different. How much did Ronaldo go for? How much would it cost us to buy a Man U striker now? Even an unwanted one? To say the money is basically the same is completely wrong. The world of football, in particular the Premier League, is much different 8 years on. Man City FAILED with a bid of £91 million for Kaka. 8/9 years ago that would have bought anybody in the world. The Premier League is a victim of it's own sucess and the inflation rate since 2001/2002 must be well over 200%.

[Kelbo]

wins do not = good performances. Watch Egypt vs Algeria to understands what a good performance is. We won scrappy affairs, we did not play good football by any stretch of the imagination.

Givet also cost us around 4m, no? Plus let's not forget Salgado's wages.

And today's money is not THAT different, at least for our dealings. We sold Duff for about the same amount we sold Bentley and Santa Cruz in the past couple of years.

The argument that Souness has "so much more money to spend" than BFS really does not hold water, nor those the notion that if BFS has an extra million or two he would suddenly have us playing the football we were producing under Souness.

Really, Souness who said we do well to simply survive in the premiership

the same Souness who was renowned for playing a narrow game with no width?

I am not sure you are correct there, Souness played good stuff in the championship, towards the end of his time and the influx of big money from the bigger clubs, he struggled to compete, just a way of the world I am afraid, we couldnt attract the top players and I think you will find, Duff apart, he didnt sell all the better players and had the cash to find other players!!

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Sam's style may be pragmatic but I'm more than happy to see us midway in the Premier League on a shoestring budget.

I have to agree 100% with that Parsonblue.

Those who are looking for 'Brazilian style' football need to be seen on Turf Moor(or so THEY say!)

[MeanGreenMachine]

Who says they expect us to 'play like Brazil'? The average footballer can pass the ball along the floor without the need to hit a 60yard ball in the hope a striker gets close to it.

[Majiball]

I have to agree 100% with that Parsonblue.

Those who are looking for 'Brazilian style' football need to be seen on Turf Moor(or so THEY say!)

(not aimed at you)

Firstly why does everyone deal in extremes with reference to our style?

Why can't we have a balance between the two, direct when we need to be and on the floor when not?

At the end of the day people want two things victories and entertainment when paying to watch the game. If they don't get them they'll do something else, thats just the way it is. We do need to improve our play and a few games doesn't mean our style has changed or developed. Its moving in the right direction but we still have a habit of falling back on last seasons (supposed) style of necessity.

Its been nice to see us playing a bit more "football" recently and taking teams on, it generates hope. However its been 3-4 games out of just over one season. If at the end of this one we've seen this improvement in our play continue then even I will be happy. But habits aren't made in one day they take months and as such until we've been playing as we have recently over a pro-longed period, then there will still be dis-content in the stands.

[AndyC]

sam seems to run the club like a democracy come match day. waits to listen for the fans to sing what they want, then elivers. only problem be it ends up twisted out of shape and not exactly what we'd hope for (a camel is a horse designed by committee) - like last night when he took kalinic off and waited till we were winning to go 4-4-2 (though the kalinic sub was for the best in hindsight, had we not won he would have looked foolish). he also used to wait for the crowd to sing benni mccarthy before bringing him on.

he'll still come out and praise his own tactical nouse come the end of the game though.

that's the biggest laugh I've had all day.

If you honestly believe that, you need help.

[thenodrog]

Graham Souness. He did it for 1-2 seasons. Which proves that it can be done.

Next question.

You have a very poor memory span. Dont you rem Matteo on the left wing?

Souness had a shed load of money at his disposal compared to SA now.

btw good post majiball.

[John]

Excellent post. I would have hoped that after our near escape with Ince that supporters would have come to understand that this club is balanced on a knife-edge with regard to Premier League survival. The wrong appointment at the top and the club topples into the Championship and possibly worse. Sam's style may be pragmatic but I'm more than happy to see us midway in the Premier League on a shoestring budget.

Good post.

For those who think Sam would not ideally want to finish in the top 10 (and higher) are mistaken. There was a great interview on the TV around 2 months ago. In that interview, he said ultimately he wants to make us a top 10 club again and hoped he would be given time to do that. He stressed that with little resources, he needed that time to develop the club.

But I also really think he is realistic in that it is more difficult than ever.

As I have said before, I don't always agree with the things he says, or the cautious approach in some matches, however he is the best manager for us at this time.

[thenodrog]

the last couple of results can't be ignored, we appear to be heading in the right direction for this season - and let's face it after throwing away points in the league (eg West Ham at home) and forfeiting the FA Cup, the only thing to aim for now is safety and then prize money - which is what many of the apologists reallists on this MB seem to be happy with, however we might get there.

I've corrected it for you Tris.

As for the countless thousands who chanted 4-4-2.... I could hardly hear it so imo it was a few hundred from behind the Blackburn End goal. I don't need to reiterate my opinion of them either. But there is a debate already running about the level of chanting that they are associated with! If you want to associate yourself with that lot then I cannot stop you.

We have had back to back wins. (I wouldn't bet on getting 6 points if we played Fulham and Wigan again mind you. ) But lets have less of this negativity. I compared the likes of yourself to 5th Columnists yesterday Tris and today you are bearing it out. Look at clubs around us and you really should have nothing to moan about this week but yet you still insist on stoking the fire to keep the pot boiling. Why?

The last thing this club needs is another managerial change.

1. We could hardly afford it for one thing.

2. imo The man at the top couldn't find his arse with both hands never mind a manager if the shenannigins over the previous two appointments are to be taken into account. I'm sure that it can't be easy but it's John Williams who is largely to blame so maybe his position should be reviewed? Surely you cannot disagree or deny that Tris?

3. Williams incredible appointment of Ince and him forcing the sale of our best players without proper replacements being lined up and/or installed has set us back years but since Allardyce came we have improved. Obviously any improvement has been slow and almost imperceptible but with little money it's hardly suprising. Allardyce is far from perfect but he is still the best fit for a club like ours with neither financial nor political clout. The main issue is to continue on the road to recovery even though it appears to be a slower one than we would all like.

[thenodrog]

talking to a old guy at dinner in the bookies and he says the football is still pi8s poor at ewood,i said why do you go then,he says old habits die hard

Well thats added a lot to the current debate waggy. Thanks for that.

btw did it not occur to you that you yourself are walking proof that old habits do NOT die hard!

[imy9]

I've corrected it for you Tris.

As for the countless thousands who chanted 4-4-2.... I could hardly hear it so imo it was a few hundred from behind the Blackburn End goal. I don't need to reiterate my opinion of them either. But there is a debate already running about the level of chanting that they are associated with! If you want to associate yourself with that lot then I cannot stop you.

We have had back to back wins. (I wouldn't bet on getting 6 points if we played Fulham and Wigan again mind you. ) But lets have less of this negativity. I compared the likes of yourself to 5th Columnists yesterday Tris and today you are bearing it out. Look at clubs around us and you really should have nothing to moan about this week but yet you still insist on stoking the fire to keep the pot boiling. Why?

The last thing this club needs is another managerial change.

1. We could hardly afford it for one thing.

2. imo The man at the top couldn't find his arse with both hands never mind a manager if the shenannigins over the previous two appointments are to be taken into account. I'm sure that it can't be easy but it's John Williams who is largely to blame so maybe his position should be reviewed? Surely you cannot disagree or deny that Tris?

3. Williams incredible appointment of Ince and him forcing the sale of our best players without proper replacements being lined up and/or installed has set us back years but since Allardyce came we have improved. Obviously any improvement has been slow and almost imperceptible but with little money it's hardly suprising. Allardyce is far from perfect but he is still the best fit for a club like ours with neither financial nor political clout. The main issue is to continue on the road to recovery even though it appears to be a slower one than we would all like.

He is the same bloke who brought Souness and Hughes to the club who were both resounding successes, Big Sam is also a success so he has made one mistake out of four. I happen to think JW has done a sterling job, when you look at the finances at clubs like Hull and Portsmouth it highlights how well JW has done.

[Mr. E]

You have a very poor memory span. Dont you rem Matteo on the left wing?

Souness had a shed load of money at his disposal compared to SA now.

btw good post majiball.

I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. I remember fast flowing attacking football and fearless determination that got us such memorable games as the 3-3 draw vs Arsenal, a top-half finish in our first season back in the Premiership, and a Carling Cup. That with everyone around us outspending us by a wide margin.

And the reasoning that Souness "had a shed load of money at his disposal compared to SA now" is why we played better football under him is simply not true. I don't know what else to say. It's like arguing that Hull City are currently the richest club in the world. They are not. End of story.

Souness's team was made of a few superstar youngsters, bargain-bin buys that turned great and ONE big-money signing in Andy Cole, who people slated pretty regularly back then for his "hands on hips" lack of commitment. Allardyce has just as much at his disposal, and he has mostly made good transfer buys that should give us the ingredients for a good football-playing team again. Those who are saying that's impossible and we should only be happy with scraping wins vs Fulham and Wigan suffer from a case of small-minded, forgetful mentality.

90% of the teams suggested in the matchday threads are better than what usually Allardyce puts on the field. What does that tell you? Or has the past week suddenly made people believers of the "I'm the expert!" tripe?

[47er]

I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. I remember fast flowing attacking football and fearless determination that got us such memorable games as the 3-3 draw vs Arsenal, a top-half finish in our first season back in the Premiership, and a Carling Cup. That with everyone around us outspending us by a wide margin.

And the reasoning that Souness "had a shed load of money at his disposal compared to SA now" is why we played better football under him is simply not true. I don't know what else to say. It's like arguing that Hull City are currently the richest club in the world. They are not. End of story.

Souness's team was made of a few superstar youngsters, bargain-bin buys that turned great and ONE big-money signing in Andy Cole, who people slated pretty regularly back then for his "hands on hips" lack of commitment. Allardyce has just as much at his disposal, and he has mostly made good transfer buys that should give us the ingredients for a good football-playing team again. Those who are saying that's impossible and we should only be happy with scraping wins vs Fulham and Wigan suffer from a case of small-minded, forgetful mentality.

90% of the teams suggested in the matchday threads are better than what usually Allardyce puts on the field. What does that tell you? Or has the past week suddenly made people believers of the "I'm the expert!" tripe?

Once again let me point out that Souness was taking us into the 2nd Div when Newcastle rescued us. Buying players for 7M and then letting them go for free is "de rigeur" for Graeme Souness but no bloody good for us! And he had MUCH more money to spend than either Hughes or Allardyce.

[Miker]

Good post.

For those who think Sam would not ideally want to finish in the top 10 (and higher) are mistaken. There was a great interview on the TV around 2 months ago. In that interview, he said ultimately he wants to make us a top 10 club again and hoped he would be given time to do that. He stressed that with little resources, he needed that time to develop the club.

But I also really think he is realistic in that it is more difficult than ever.

As I have said before, I don't always agree with the things he says, or the cautious approach in some matches, however he is the best manager for us at this time.

When he first took over he said that his first task was to avoid relegation, his next task would be t consolidate our position in the Premier League over the next season or two and then hopefully we can start realistically aiming for Europe. When I read that back then I was encouraged and have been encouraged ever since. The fact is that Sam has been realistic about the chances and expectations we have as a football club and so far he has delivered appropriately.

So for what it's worth, I don't think he's the greatest manager in the world, I don't know how long he will be with us, I don't know how great we can become under him (or how poor), but I know that he has realistic aspirations for this club, he has the ability to manage at this level successfully and he has the know-how to develop this team and improve it. So I will keep faith in him until such time as he leaves or get sacked.

[CrazyIvan]

I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. I remember fast flowing attacking football and fearless determination that got us such memorable games as the 3-3 draw vs Arsenal, a top-half finish in our first season back in the Premiership, and a Carling Cup. That with everyone around us outspending us by a wide margin.

And the reasoning that Souness "had a shed load of money at his disposal compared to SA now" is why we played better football under him is simply not true. I don't know what else to say. It's like arguing that Hull City are currently the richest club in the world. They are not. End of story.

Souness's team was made of a few superstar youngsters, bargain-bin buys that turned great and ONE big-money signing in Andy Cole, who people slated pretty regularly back then for his "hands on hips" lack of commitment. Allardyce has just as much at his disposal, and he has mostly made good transfer buys that should give us the ingredients for a good football-playing team again. Those who are saying that's impossible and we should only be happy with scraping wins vs Fulham and Wigan suffer from a case of small-minded, forgetful mentality.

90% of the teams suggested in the matchday threads are better than what usually Allardyce puts on the field. What does that tell you? Or has the past week suddenly made people believers of the "I'm the expert!" tripe?

Ah yes, fast flowing and attacking football that put us in the bottom 3 at the end of February. We finished 10th after we went on a memorable run after winning the League Cup. You do like to spin things your own way Mr E.