[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[Miker]

The thing is Bryan I certainly agree that I want to see us playing good football all the time but today the greater good was scruffy football and coming away with a point.

Hopefully a ball playing midfielder comes in and we can play some more football, maybe Basturk can do the job when fit

Exactly. We played good football against Fulham and Villa (and apparently against Wigan, although I didn't watch). It ws blindingly obvious that the scrappy football we played against West Ham was deliberate and worked to our advantage, West Ham looked lost when the ball was kept in the air, they only looked dangerous when they had their ball at the feet and we did our best to stop them from doing so.

After a scrappy first half, we actually went out and were a bit more attacking and strung some passes together in the second half and in the end it was a tense and exciting finale, so people can say it was horrendous/boring, but there was SOME entertainment value there.

[Miker]

ah, I see, so if we tried stringing 3 passes together, or played with a second striker and lost the great contributions of Diouf, we would have lost the game?

Some people here are absolutely unbelievable. One week Allardyce is "taking the club down", then two rather fortunate home wins vs Fulham and Wigan and no one is allowed to question his expertise? Give me a break.

No one has argued we aren't capable of playing better football. It was blindingly obvious the strategy we used for the game and it was blindingly obvious that it worked. I'm not sure if you noticed, but West Ham were quite dangerous at times, going more attacking could have easily exposed us and lost us the game. Instead, we nullified their threat almost completely and created chances of our own. Honestly, who gives a ###### if we're playing fluid football or we go out to frustrate the opposition right now. We're 10th and if Sam can do absolutely everything to keep us in this position at the end of the season it would be brilliant.

The facts are these:

1.) We have little finances

2.) We need better finances

3.) We can get better finances by staying in the league and finishing 10th this season

4.) If we achieved that, we would undoubtedly have more funds to spend on players and the team would be more accustomed to playing together

This season is all about stability (I've already said it numerous times), so if you don't like the football on offer then deal with it. Sam needs to use whatever tactics from game to game to get us points.

[Mr. E]

I am normally a silent reader on this board, but Mr. E has moved me to comment.

Are you seriously suggesting that sacking BFS is a sensible option?

We knew what we getting when we appointed him. Long balls, nulify the opposition, 0-0 draws home and away, the media and nuetrals hating us just like always.

On the other hand, we knew we were getting someone who would keep us in the PL. Yes, the entertainment is low, yes he's a stubborn git who tries to fit players into his preferred formation, yes he makes mistakes and he doesn't admit them - even to himself, yes we are hardly setting the league on fire, yes some purchases will be s**t. But will he take us down? I think even Waggy would be secretely surprised if he did.

In the long run we have to hope that the football eventually improves - like it did at Bolton, and that his heart and health are still in it. It took him a few seasons of steady, grinding, slow progress to push them into the European places. It was not an instant formula success, but then what is? Coyle (I don't think so), Souness (players all grow to hate him before he can get that far), Curbishely (not better than Sam), Hughes (stop kidding yourself), someone with no PL experience (too risky for us).

There is no alternative - this is the world of BFS - Newcastle thought they were too good for it - they were wrong, and they had far more resources at the disposal than we will have in a long time.

I agree with most of this. I only replied to a question that asked whether it is possible to play better football and still achieve results, and pointed to Souness as an example. I did not say that this means we should fire BFS on the spot, nor did I imply that I think he's doing a terrible job. He is doing pretty much what most people expected him to do, and his style is hardly a surprise. However, it appears to be blasphemous here to suggest that our football can certainly improve without us suffering in terms of results. Apparently I'm all doom-and-gloom and Mr. Negativity because I say "yes the past few results have been good, but we can and should be playing better football". Not sure whether I am the depressing one, or the others who get angry just at the suggestion that we can do better.

edit: And forget Souness, we HAVE played great football under BFS. Our victory over Chelsea was great, as was our turnaround vs Pompey and win over Bolton. Even our 3-0 loss to Fulham was mostly due to bad luck, despite us playing good football. What do all these games have in common? We played with 2-3 strikers.

However, then we reverted to one upfront and it has all been downhill since. In the last couple of games we've had a bit of luck back and that's why we have won, but our football remains horrible.

The perfect example is the first semi-final leg vs Aston Villa. The first half we play defensively with one upfront, do absolutely nothing and are lucky to go only 1-0 down at half time. We then change to a much more attacking style, get into Villa and play so much better, and only the post prevents us from leveling. Yet despite all this, we are STILL playing with one upfront.

[47er]

I agree with most of this. I only replied to a question that asked whether it is possible to play better football and still achieve results, and pointed to Souness as an example. I did not say that this means we should fire BFS on the spot, nor did I imply that I think he's doing a terrible job. He is doing pretty much what most people expected him to do, and his style is hardly a surprise. However, it appears to be blasphemous here to suggest that our football can certainly improve without us suffering in terms of results. Apparently I'm all doom-and-gloom and Mr. Negativity because I say "yes the past few results have been good, but we can and should be playing better football". Not sure whether I am the depressing one, or the others who get angry just at the suggestion that we can do better.

edit: And forget Souness, we HAVE played great football under BFS. Our victory over Chelsea was great, as was our turnaround vs Pompey and win over Bolton. Even our 3-0 loss to Fulham was mostly due to bad luck, despite us playing good football. What do all these games have in common? We played with 2-3 strikers.

However, then we reverted to one upfront and it has all been downhill since. In the last couple of games we've had a bit of luck back and that's why we have won, but our football remains horrible.

The perfect example is the first semi-final leg vs Aston Villa. The first half we play defensively with one upfront, do absolutely nothing and are lucky to go only 1-0 down at half time. We then change to a much more attacking style, get into Villa and play so much better, and only the post prevents us from leveling. Yet despite all this, we are STILL playing with one upfront.

You're shifting the goalposts here a bit. Your posts have been more negative than you're making out! However any stepping back is welcome!

[John]

For me today our tactics were spot on.....we got 1 point from a game that 99% of Rovers fans expected to get naff all..we went there, stopped them scoring, frustrated the fans...we defended well and with a slight bit of luck we would be looking at a win

Are you now supporting Sam out of interest? Your support was waning a few days ago?

Have a look here.

[philipl]

A while a go I posted that a PL manager of a non-big 4 club can get away with 2 of the following 3 for a long time but not all 3 for any length of time:

- playing boring unimaginative football

- kamikaze defending

- protracted failure to win or losing a lot

Sam has sorted the last of those three whilst judgement on the defending ought to be reserved until we play a team less decapitated by injuries than Fulham and West Ham were but there is no arguing that a clean sheet is a clean sheet (just as 6 goals were 6 goals ten days ago).

Sam's problem is that despite saving us last season, he has failed to build a capital of loyalty amongst either the fans or the players so if we slip back (by failing to keep this good league run going over the next three games for instance), the pressure will go straight back onto him a lot quicker than it should do.

Unless he sorts out his relationship with players (things leak irrespective of clamp downs) and fans and stops the stupid aspects of the boring unimaginative football (or gets results/draws when Mancs, Chelsea and Arse et al come calling), he is going to get the fans on his back again the moment all 3 things go against him. Or, if he loses at t'Turf.

This is not me being "down" on Sam or being a wet blanket. Just stating what for me is the blindingly obvious.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I don't agree with Sam's tactics - as they are too one dimensional and predictable. Having said that, recently there have been glimmers of hope - short throw ins when there is a man free, the odd (rare) short free kick, rather than long Robinson punt.

4-5-1 frustrates me - I can understand the approach (I think) - lone strikers scraps for ball - in theory our midfield players pick up the second ball. The main problems - our midfield is often too deep, long ball delivery is often aimless (a long ball isn't necessarily a bad ball if accurate), having a lone striker only gives one point of attack - which means accuracy of passing. The positives - 5 in midfield has brought the best out of MGP & Dunn, and to a lesser extent Emo - also do we have two central midfield players available to play only 4 in midfield ?

Sams biggest problem - we have too much deadwood - and no money to replace it. Doesn't matter what tactics you have - this will always be a constant issue. For those that think we are now safe - and should as a result start to play a more expansive game - look at our run of fixtures towards the end of the season. We have to pick up points now - looking at the bigger picture - 1pt at WHU (even if tactics are boring) will help keep us up.

[MCMC1875]

A while a go I posted that a PL manager of a non-big 4 club can get away with 2 of the following 3 for a long time but not all 3 for any length of time:

- playing boring unimaginative football

- kamikaze defending

- protracted failure to win or losing a lot

Sam has sorted the last of those three whilst judgement on the defending ought to be reserved until we play a team less decapitated by injuries than Fulham and West Ham were but there is no arguing that a clean sheet is a clean sheet (just as 6 goals were 6 goals ten days ago).

Sam's problem is that despite saving us last season, he has failed to build a capital of loyalty amongst either the fans or the players so if we slip back (by failing to keep this good league run going over the next three games for instance), the pressure will go straight back onto him a lot quicker than it should do.

Unless he sorts out his relationship with players (things leak irrespective of clamp downs) and fans and stops the stupid aspects of the boring unimaginative football (or gets results/draws when Mancs, Chelsea and Arse et al come calling), he is going to get the fans on his back again the moment all 3 things go against him. Or, if he loses at t'Turf.

This is not me being "down" on Sam or being a wet blanket. Just stating what for me is the blindingly obvious.

Regarding your last paragraph - this is only your opinion. To me it looks like you are promoting an anti-Allardyce lobby, just as you did with Ince.

[greco]

in can understand the discussion about tactics, i can understand if some do not like it.

had i been asked prior to the season, 23 matches in, 11th in the league with a good cup run,is that acceptable.? my reaction would be hell yes.

had i been asked the same qusteion, with the addition of sh!te football, i would still say yes.

debating for a sacking of sam, at present time, is at best, stupidity.

[47er]

Definitely not Curbishley, I'd rather give Ince to the end of the season.

Don't forget this little gem Philip!

[thenodrog]

I wonder if there is anyone here who can still argue that we are incapable of playing better football than the dross Allardyce put out vs West Ham. 1 upfront entirely isolated and helpless, Diouff as useless as he can possibly be, the "cavalry" in Andrews and Roberts when we have better players on the bench, and the other players looking directionless and without any ideas.

I really would like all the Allardyce defenders in this thread to explain why we are incapable of playing with two strikers and stringing more than two ground passes together.

Because we don't have enough money to buy someone like Andy Cole again? Is that why?

No it's cos Tugay went past his sell by date and apart from poss Fabregas there is nobody better at stringing passes together than him anywhere in the Prem! Even a blithering idiot would not need to ask that question would they?

Whatever formation we played yesterday we should have won with the chances and ill fortune that we had. It wasn't pretty but the truth is that very few Prem matches or teams are pretty to watch nowadays. The consequences of relegation is simply too much to bear and thats that. The only team that will still be standing should they be relegated will be Burnley and credit too them for that.

Anyway comment on WHU please cos they were worse than us yesterday. Then comment also on January's other Prem opponents, or even on any of the clubs below us for that matter. If you are not prepared to do so and to be even handed then sod off and stop working your malicious agenda.

[Hughesy]

Are you now supporting Sam out of interest? Your support was waning a few days ago?

Have a look here.

I said he had 2 games....he seemed to of lost the dressing room at City and thats what worried me. If he doesnt have the support of the players then he has no chance - however since half time in the home leg v Villa we have improved greatly.

We beat Fulham & Wigan, played pretty well at Villa and then got our 1st point at West Ham since 95.

He got very close to the exit door but then we improved when it mattered.

[47er]

I don't think there's any chance Sam Allardyce would get the gig, should Ince get potted.

Firstly, the manager and chairman of any football club need a good working relationship. I can't see that happening after the noises this summer. Pride would have to be swallowed on both sides, and I doubt it would be on either.

Secondly, Rovers won't want to lose an entire structure for a second time in 6 months. If Ince goes, Mathias might go with him, but I would expect the vast majority of the backroom staff and new scouting team to remain. Allardyce wouldn't want the job on those terms - he would need his usual army.

My money would be on Rovers going for someone to do a job on a short term deal until the summer, and see where we are then. I think Williams might look to Souness to fill that role. They parted on good terms, and there is still a great deal of mutual respect.

There is barely a remnant of the Souness "decline" left in the dressing room (bar Tugay) so for 95% of the squad it would be a brand new face. For Rovers it would offer a short term solution, and the opportunity to start afresh next summer - in whichever division.

I don't think there's a chance of Allardyce though.

Gosh, trawling back through old posts can be fun! Explains a lot!

[hollowsr]

Allardyce on Goals on Sunday now!!

Some negotiations going on!!

[John]

He got very close to the exit door.

Rubbish, we simply could not afford to sack him for a start, you realise that hopefully?

Especially with no viable alternatives.

Back the manager and get some perspective - stop believing the negatives.

[John]

Sam's problem is that despite saving us last season, he has failed to build a capital of loyalty amongst either the fans or the players so if we slip back (by failing to keep this good league run going over the next three games for instance), the pressure will go straight back onto him a lot quicker than it should do.

I still respect him for saving our club from relegation (and probably oblivion) last season. Good interview with him on Sky just now, only been in the job 12 months, needs time to make us perform more consistent.

[RevidgeBlue]

Whilst the last three results have been most welcome, some of the praise for Sam is now going well OTT.

We were fairly fortunate against Wigan imo, once again Sam got the tactics wrong in the second half after a decent first half performance and the crowd quite rightly voiced their displeasure.

If Sam hadn't got lucky and we hadn't scored from the corner prior to him hauling the outstanding Kalinic off, I think there'd have been a mini riot.

[John]

Whilst the last three results have been most welcome, some of the praise for Sam is now going well OTT.

We were fairly fortunate against Wigan imo, once again Sam got the tactics wrong in the second half after a decent first half performance and the crowd quite rightly voiced their displeasure.

If Sam hadn't got lucky and we hadn't scored from the corner prior to him hauling the outstanding Kalinic off, I think there'd have been a mini riot.

I thought he gave a very balanced interview on Sky Sports just now. Said we have sold and lost so much top talent recently (Santa Cruz, Tugay Warnock etc), and it would take time to replace that quality in the squad.

Said wants to stay where we are now (10th), then hopefully build upon that next season.

IMO, not getting the champagne out but he is doing well given the resources we have.

[Bobby G]

Any more details on what he said?

[John]

Any more details on what he said?

Fairly positive, said we will try and sign a player before deadline day.

Consistency in peformance/results will hopefully come given time, as only been in the job for over 12 months.

No sour grapes with Benni, JW got a good fee for him.

Key to develop the young players over the next couple of years: Junior, Olsson, Kalinic.

[Miker]

I said he had 2 games....he seemed to of lost the dressing room at City and thats what worried me. If he doesnt have the support of the players then he has no chance - however since half time in the home leg v Villa we have improved greatly.

We beat Fulham & Wigan, played pretty well at Villa and then got our 1st point at West Ham since 95.

He got very close to the exit door but then we improved when it mattered.

Who said he lost the dressing room? It was just pointless speculation, which clearly wasn't true. He wasn't going to get fired because we can't afford to replace him right now and it would've been suicide. I don't think losing a number of supporters would be anywhere near the loss we'd experience from sacking Sam and other staff members and then having to bring new ones in. Everyone was just jumping on the "sack Sam!" bandwagon.

[jim mk2]

Tris, on 25 November 2008 - 11:48 AM, said:

I don't think there's any chance Sam Allardyce would get the gig, should Ince get potted.

Firstly, the manager and chairman of any football club need a good working relationship. I can't see that happening after the noises this summer. Pride would have to be swallowed on both sides, and I doubt it would be on either.

Secondly, Rovers won't want to lose an entire structure for a second time in 6 months. If Ince goes, Mathias might go with him, but I would expect the vast majority of the backroom staff and new scouting team to remain. Allardyce wouldn't want the job on those terms - he would need his usual army.

My money would be on Rovers going for someone to do a job on a short term deal until the summer, and see where we are then. I think Williams might look to Souness to fill that role. They parted on good terms, and there is still a great deal of mutual respect.

There is barely a remnant of the Souness "decline" left in the dressing room (bar Tugay) so for 95% of the squad it would be a brand new face. For Rovers it would offer a short term solution, and the opportunity to start afresh next summer - in whichever division.

I don't think there's a chance of Allardyce though.

Shows what that poster knows about football in general, and Rovers in particular.

[tony gale's mic]

Shows what that poster knows about football in general, and Rovers in particular.

He's nothing more than a literate version of waggy.

[Kelbo]

From my information, the problem in the dressing room has now departed!!!

[Parsonblue]

Excellent interview with Sam on 'Goals on Sunday'. I've always believed he was the right man for the job and still do. He accurately described how times have changed in the last few years in football for clubs like the Rovers and Bolton. That the chances of picking up experienced internationals for next to nothing - as he did at Bolton - have long gone. He again stressed the importance of developing young players for a club like the Rovers and said that it was pleasing that the Rovers were getting the mix of youth and experience correct.

Sam sounded very enthusiastic about the future for the Rovers and that his health problems were behind him and that he was enjoying management. Once again he pointed out that it takes time to build up the club and stated that he wanted to get to 40 points as quickly as possible so that he could start planning for next season at Ewood Park with regard to strengthening his squad.

He pointed out that he would give John Williams a list of players he wanted but that it was simply a fact of life that the players he would end up with would be the players at the bottom of the list because players would want to move to clubs that they perceived to be 'bigger' than the Rovers and to clubs where they could earn more money. Nonetheless, he seemed quite happy with the situation and would happily work with whatever the club could provide.

He certainly put the Rovers in a very postive light and seemed intent on developing the club's long term future as a whole.