[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[thenodrog]

Give him time. He still has to build HIS side rather than try and use some of the ageing and injury prone pro's playing for us now.

And build it without much money too.

btw Pafell there is nothing wrong with 4-5-1 ffs. Stop jumping on the silly hoofball / 4-5-1 bandwagon thats going about and think for yourself. Most teams in the prem play that way. Good grief when we won the Prem Shearer was at centre forward with Sutton or Newell working off and supporting him. Currently it's the ones who are wearing the blue and white shirts that are not performing as well as we would like. Granted though SA must shoulder his share of the blame for that.

[John]

Sorry about the previous post. What I meant to add was our passing is the main reason we're playing so poorly. I read the stats every week and we're always below our opponents in terms of successful passes made. Usually we're in the bottom two or three of the league . Take this weeks game, Stoke had a 67.4 success rate, we had 55.7. Even Pompey getting bashed 5-0 away managed 79.9. Wolves were the next worst to Rovers with 58.7.

Obviosly we're having to work miles harder because we're losing possession so much.

Why is our passing so poor ? For me the main reason is the absolute lack of movement off the ball. We're always taking the ball stood still. Teams know that they only have to press the ball against us and they'll get it back easily.

You have a point about lack of movement, but it also comes to down to lack of quality too. Even Dunny, who is probably our most talented player, struggles with the accuracy of his passing.

[thenodrog]

You have a point about lack of movement, but it also comes to down to lack of quality too. Even Dunny, who is probably our most talented player, struggles with the accuracy of his passing.

Disagree John. They are professional footballers and each of those players can pass it through the eye of a needle. Prob is that during a game there are too few options open to the bloke on the ball caused by lack of movement and no desire to make themselves available by too many of their own teammates.

I must say in the past I've seen this with our lot but we'd normally cure this by bringing Tugay on. He'd 'bring' his ball watching teammates into play all the time.

[Alan75]

You have raised an interesting point. Somehow supporters need to be able to voice their concerns. At the moment the only way I can think of is that this message board has grown for awhile now. Somehow we need to get somebody from the club interested in viewing what is said on here. Maybe fans need there own publication via this message board - with the current mods having a say of what goes in or not. Even if it means we each have to give money towards it. But as you rightly said how else can we voice our concerns without causeing more panic with a fragile team.

Do we all stand up at half time and shout "sam out, Hughes in" But people on here cannot agree with who to replace Sam with.

Ironically even Sven would be available as I am sure he would rather be at Rovers than Notts County.

I'm not having a go at you PAFELL.

A few years ago a group of Rovers supporters got together and formed , Blackburn Rovers Independent Supporters Association (BRISA)

Quite a lot of people from this site were involved and newsletters were published, meeting were held with John Williams etc etc.

It even had its own web site that CN174 designed.

However as usual appathy took over and it was left to a limited number of people to do all the work involved, and it was swallowed up into the fans forum.

It's easy to suggest things but there needs to be a mass support over a commited long period of time and not left to the individuals.

[John]

Disagree John. They are professional footballers and each of those players can pass it through the eye of a needle. Prob is that during a game there are too few options open to the bloke on the ball caused by lack of movement and no desire to make themselves available by too many of their own teammates.

I must say in the past I've seen this with our lot but we'd normally cure this by bringing Tugay on. He'd 'bring' his ball watching teammates into play all the time.

Lack of movement has something to do with it.

However, good example on Saturday, Emerton badly hit 4 misplaced passes in the middle of the pitch, which 2 of nearly led to goals for Stoke.

Also comes down to having a woeful lack of quality in midfield - they might be pro footballers but I would say for many times this season the midfield Sam has put out, is up there with the worst in the league.

[Kelbo]

You have a point about lack of movement, but it also comes to down to lack of quality too. Even Dunny, who is probably our most talented player, struggles with the accuracy of his passing.

The word is 'Options'!!

We dont give the man on the ball enough options, so it is down to movement and being available to the man on the ball, McCarthy got one kicked off the line at the TURD, it was wonderful movement by Benni, gave the man on the ball options!

[gumboots]

And build it without much money too.

btw Pafell there is nothing wrong with 4-5-1 ffs. Stop jumping on the silly hoofball / 4-5-1 bandwagon thats going about and think for yourself. Most teams in the prem play that way. Good grief when we won the Prem Shearer was at centre forward with Sutton or Newell working off and supporting him. Currently it's the ones who are wearing the blue and white shirts that are not performing as well as we would like. Granted though SA must shoulder his share of the blame for that.

Isn't that just what he was saying? 4-5-1 works when Bolton were the team playing it but as more sides go that way then you have to be good at it to get anywhere and have the players to make it a flexible system that moves between 4-3-3 and 4-5-1 at the drop of a hat. We don't have players who are convinced that they can play that way and so we resort to just banging aimless long balls forward which other teams find it easy to counter attack against.

[PAFELL]

I'm not having a go at you PAFELL.

A few years ago a group of Rovers supporters got together and formed , Blackburn Rovers Independent Supporters Association (BRISA)

Quite a lot of people from this site were involved and newsletters were published, meeting were held with John Williams etc etc.

It even had its own web site that CN174 designed.

However as usual appathy took over and it was left to a limited number of people to do all the work involved, and it was swallowed up into the fans forum.

It's easy to suggest things but there needs to be a mass support over a commited long period of time and not left to the individuals.

Thanks for that. I was never aware of BRISA. I don't know much about the current fans forum. But am aware that every now and again on the Rovers site we hear bits and pieces. It really is a pity about BRISA. But I don't think the current forum would entertain ' get rid of Sam' suggestions etc.

My post was really in reply to somebody elses, who basically was saying 'what can I or anybody else do' about the current situation at Rovers. Sadly the person was right, there is nothing us mere mortals can do but watch events unfold, wait and hope this and that happens.

[PAFELL]

And build it without much money too.

btw Pafell there is nothing wrong with 4-5-1 ffs. Stop jumping on the silly hoofball / 4-5-1 bandwagon thats going about and think for yourself. Most teams in the prem play that way. Good grief when we won the Prem Shearer was at centre forward with Sutton or Newell working off and supporting him. Currently it's the ones who are wearing the blue and white shirts that are not performing as well as we would like. Granted though SA must shoulder his share of the blame for that.

I am not complaining like others about 451. I am saying hoof ball does not work against a 451 formation. Managers now know how to handle Sam's tactics - because he has used the same for so long.

Where have you seen a post of me complaining etc about 451? I had some pathetic individual singing it in my ear at WHU and said I wasn't a true Rovers supporter because I didn't join in.

What I am saying is that the curent players are more than capable of playing football on the ground. In spells they have shown this - then mess it up when they just boot it forward. Of course there are occasions when the long ball is required during any game. But not first and foremost - becasue all that is doing is giving the ball back to the other team.

I am also aware of the money resriction that Sam has - or any other manager would have if Sam left.

But Sam takes the credit when things go right, but not the blame when they do not. That in itself must get to the players. When things go right Sam takes the credit and not the players. When it goes wrong, the players or the ref get the blame and not Sam. IMO that is bad management.

[G Somerset Rover]

But Sam takes the credit when things go right, but not the blame when they do not. That in itself must get to the players. When things go right Sam takes the credit and not the players. When it goes wrong, the players or the ref get the blame and not Sam. IMO that is bad management.

Agreed. Sam's excuses of late have done my head in.

One minute he's publicly humiliating our strikers the next it's all the ref's fault or just our defenders without a word of mention for lack of chances created, general play etc.

Yet when we win...

[PAFELL]

So Bolton never consistently contested the Sky4 (most famously Arsenal and ManUre) or made Europe after Sam was in charge for a few years having built a decent side?

And if you're looking at game records, look at his game records for Bolton's 1st year back in the Prem to have a realistic comparison.

Who was Sam with? Phil Brown. What I am suggesting and yes I do not know the records, that Sam since he and phil Brown went their seperate ways is not as good as he was when he had phil brown with him. Both of them together produced success, but Sam on his own, no. Look at newcastle, look at Rovers. I believe it is possible that Sam took all the credit and brown had to grin and bear it.

[den]

Who was Sam with? Phil Brown. What I am suggesting and yes I do not know the records, that Sam since he and phil Brown went their seperate ways is not as good as he was when he had phil brown with him. Both of them together produced success, but Sam on his own, no. Look at newcastle, look at Rovers. I believe it is possible that Sam took all the credit and brown had to grin and bear it.

There's no evidence whatsoever that Phil Brown was more of an influence than Allardyce.

[mac]

The headline on the telewag website is embarrassing

Allardyce: I don't know the rules of football

[unluckymorton]

Who was Sam with? Phil Brown. What I am suggesting and yes I do not know the records, that Sam since he and phil Brown went their seperate ways is not as good as he was when he had phil brown with him. Both of them together produced success, but Sam on his own, no. Look at newcastle, look at Rovers. I believe it is possible that Sam took all the credit and brown had to grin and bear it.

Obviously Phil Brown is proving to be a far batter manager than Sam, what with the money he has had at his disposal over the last 3 seasons, time to build his squad and not being forced to sell his best players whilst having a hand in getting the club into serious debt.

Give Sam the time to build a squad and turn things round. Look at Newcastle? He had no time what so ever to do the job he had been taken on to do. That's why we've got to give him the time to build and progress Rovers as far as possible on the limited funds that are available.

Please wake up people. We are a small town club with an extremely limited budget and unable to attract players. I think we're doing o.k, and o.k is about as good as it's going to get for the next couple of years or so.

[den]

The headline on the telewag website is embarrassing

Allardyce: I don't know the rules of football

Just read this. LT.

It's only embarrassing if you want to have a pop at Allardyce. He's pointing out the inconsistencies of referees, which I've just alluded to in another thread [before reading this].

[CrazyIvan]

Just read this. LT.

It's only embarrassing if you want to have a pop at Allardyce. He's pointing out the inconsistencies of referees, which I've just alluded to in another thread [before reading this].

It won't stop Allardyce haters making as much out of it as they can though. On my part, I think he's perfectly right.

What's with the 'rules' and 'laws' comment further down anyway?

[unluckymorton]

Just read this. LT.

It's only embarrassing if you want to have a pop at Allardyce. He's pointing out the inconsistencies of referees, which I've just alluded to in another thread [before reading this].

Well said den, the headline reads as you want it to read. There is obviously a spot of sarcasm in there but some don't wan't to see that.

I'm just waiting for wagster to get out of his pit and the the headline.... He'll love that one!

[JAL]

The headline on the telewag website is embarrassing

Allardyce: I don't know the rules of football

How old is he ?

How long as he been in the game ?

How much is he being paid to know the difference between the rules of the competition and the laws of the game ?

Or is this simply mischief making from the Telegraph to make him look stupid, would not rule this one out.

[T4E]

Just read this. LT.

It's only embarrassing if you want to have a pop at Allardyce. He's pointing out the inconsistencies of referees, which I've just alluded to in another thread [before reading this].

Any snide comments can be blamed on a deliberately pisstaking headline used by the Telegraph.

[mac]

I was not having a pop at Big Sam, Just highlighting a cheap shot from the so called local rovers paper.

[FourLaneBlue]

Who was Sam with? Phil Brown. What I am suggesting and yes I do not know the records, that Sam since he and phil Brown went their seperate ways is not as good as he was when he had phil brown with him. Both of them together produced success, but Sam on his own, no. Look at newcastle, look at Rovers. I believe it is possible that Sam took all the credit and brown had to grin and bear it.

That would be an interesting angle...IF it had any factual basis to it and you hadn't just made it up.

However if you look at those pesky "records" it shows that after Phil Brown left Bolton then finished in the top 8 for the next two seasons and qualified for Europe. During this time Brown was getting sacked by Derby County. They were just outside in the Championship at the time. When Brown left Bolton...nothing changed. When Allardyce left...they plummeted.

At Newcastle...they were 11th when he left. The fans hated his brand of football and the way he went about things. At Rovers...well, he kept us up last season and finished above Hull. We must have made up over 15 points on them. The majority of the disenchantment with Sam is due to poor, negative football on show more than anything else.

At Hull Brown took them up via the playoffs then only just kept them up. They are currently three points behind Rovers with a far inferior goal difference. Hull might not have been one of the big spenders but they certainly have been spending more than we have.

So...in other words. Can't agree with your theory I'm afraid.

The reason Sam has so many problems is his reputation precedes him and his negativity puts off a lot of fans.

[PAFELL]

That would be an interesting angle...IF it had any factual basis to it and you hadn't just made it up.

However if you look at those pesky "records" it shows that after Phil Brown left Bolton then finished in the top 8 for the next two seasons and qualified for Europe. During this time Brown was getting sacked by Derby County. They were just outside in the Championship at the time. When Brown left Bolton...nothing changed. When Allardyce left...they plummeted.

At Newcastle...they were 11th when he left. The fans hated his brand of football and the way he went about things. At Rovers...well, he kept us up last season and finished above Hull. We must have made up over 15 points on them. The majority of the disenchantment with Sam is due to poor, negative football on show more than anything else.

At Hull Brown took them up via the playoffs then only just kept them up. They are currently three points behind Rovers with a far inferior goal difference. Hull might not have been one of the big spenders but they certainly have been spending more than we have.

So...in other words. Can't agree with your theory I'm afraid.

The reason Sam has so many problems is his reputation precedes him and his negativity puts off a lot of fans.

I have said in a previous post that I would be curious to know what the stats were since Sam and Brown parted company. I also said in the post that I did not know what the record was. I wasn't stating it as fact. But you have cleared that bit up - thanks.

It is not just the fans that are put off Sam's negative play, but the players also imo.

[John]

The reason Sam has so many problems is his reputation precedes him and his negativity puts off a lot of fans.

Agree with that and those reasons you state are the reasons why so many dislike him. Also, he is very egotistical, which many people don't take kindly too.

I remember the Souness days, some could not bring themselves to liking him too. Of course bad results hasten the views of many too.

[FourLaneBlue]

It is not just the fans that are put off Sam's negative play, but the players also imo.

I think players just want to be playing and winning. A winning side can get away with negative football.

The thing is...if the team is not winning then very quickly the fans or whoever get on the backs of the manager. This can be seen on here after every single bad result.

To play negative football is play with fire somewhat. Allardyce pulled it off at Bolton, eventually, with aplomb. At Newcastle he didn't have that kind of time afforded him.

Not too sure exactly how this will play out at Rovers but the next two games will tell us a lot.

[broadsword]

I think players just want to be playing and winning. A winning side can get away with negative football.

Can't agree with this.

Players are just like everybody else, they have to enjoy their work.

Who knows, they may enjoy playing "Who can punt it the furthest?", but given what performances have been like, you have to wonder.

I work in IT, and if my boss said that I had to write programs in a certain way, and I knew that that way was gash, I wouldn't be too happy.