[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[Exiled in Toronto]

We certainly do not budget to be 17th in wages; if we did then we might have a decent 'war chest'

We target mid-table on wages and that certainly has not gone down under Sam, despite the Trustees asking it to come down.

If the current lot of players, after the sales, are paid to finish 14-11th, then that is where I expect them to finish.

[bringdunnback]

I'm fed up with all these critics of Sam, WE SHOULD BY ALL RIGHTS NOT BE IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE, we are a small town club whose stature is that of Championship at best. These past 10 years have seen our club punch well above weight and haven't we enjoyed, but apparantly it's gone to alot of fans heads. Under Souness, an amazing first year in the Premier League brought us 10th place and the League Cup providing funds to keep the club stable, coupled with the money from Duff and Dunn and Europe we were able to bring in players of premier league ability. Then Hughes brought us even further success due to his scouting network and we were able to maintain steady progress. The latter part of Hughes' reign the club failed to make much money available which is understandable by all acounts. Our gate receipts are poor, im guessing we have relatively poor merchandising sale etc meant the club had no major income, sales from Roque and others have had to be used to pay off debts. YET WE ARE STILL IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE. Thanks to John Williams who is a fantastic chief and Sam Allarydyce who has kept the club stable in that we aren't in a major relegation battle, got to the semis of the carling cup and has made Ewood fortress. So what if were playing boring football, I completely agree that we do but I couldnt care less as long as we stay up, we have no right to expect good football when you look at what Rovers have at their disposal. Fact is Sam is the man who can actually take us forward, look at Bolton. It took time/years but they were challenging for Europe like us just a 4/5 years ago. As it is, given we keep hold of our current squad bar Andrews, get a goalscoring striker and were challenge for Europe next year, fact!

[philipl]

We are budgeted for finishing 13th.

I am hoping we get the win against Bolton then go have a ball against the top clubs (and the dingles).

If we go to Anfield like we did last season, the fans will have every right to bitch irrespective of us sitting in a relatively comfortable position in the league.

[47er]

I said at the start of the season that I 'd be disappointed if we didn't finish at least 12th. I still think that's a goer but given the injuries to Dunn/Grella (what did I expect?!) 12 th would be a great achievement and something to build on.Sort out the away form and 8th this year would have been quite possible.

[T4E]

Rev, Givet is our best centre-back by a long way, unfortunately our manager has a right-back fetish and a left-back aversion which means GG has to play in his less favoured position.

[beerwins]

Rev, Givet is our best centre-back by a long way, unfortunately our manager has a right-back fetish and a left-back aversion which means GG has to play in his less favoured position.

In that case how you feel if Givet played centre back with Samba back to target man and Kalinic playing off him , Sams tactic seemed more effective when we actually had a target man worth aiming for.

[T4E]

In that case how you feel if Givet played centre back with Samba back to target man and Kalinic playing off him , Sams tactic seemed more effective when we actually had a target man worth aiming for.

I'd feel better if we signed an actual left-back and an actual target man and played them in their proper positions rather than square-pegging it all the time.

[unsall]

I'm fed up with all these critics of Sam, WE SHOULD BY ALL RIGHTS NOT BE IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE, we are a small town club whose stature is that of Championship at best. These past 10 years have seen our club punch well above weight and haven't we enjoyed, but apparantly it's gone to alot of fans heads. Under Souness, an amazing first year in the Premier League brought us 10th place and the League Cup providing funds to keep the club stable, coupled with the money from Duff and Dunn and Europe we were able to bring in players of premier league ability. Then Hughes brought us even further success due to his scouting network and we were able to maintain steady progress. The latter part of Hughes' reign the club failed to make much money available which is understandable by all acounts. Our gate receipts are poor, im guessing we have relatively poor merchandising sale etc meant the club had no major income, sales from Roque and others have had to be used to pay off debts. YET WE ARE STILL IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE. Thanks to John Williams who is a fantastic chief and Sam Allarydyce who has kept the club stable in that we aren't in a major relegation battle, got to the semis of the carling cup and has made Ewood fortress. So what if were playing boring football, I completely agree that we do but I couldnt care less as long as we stay up, we have no right to expect good football when you look at what Rovers have at their disposal. Fact is Sam is the man who can actually take us forward, look at Bolton. It took time/years but they were challenging for Europe like us just a 4/5 years ago. As it is, given we keep hold of our current squad bar Andrews, get a goalscoring striker and were challenge for Europe next year, fact!

At last someone with a bit of common,exactly to a word what I think,all you get on here and down at ewood is moan,moan,moan,it would be very nice to play like Arsenal every week,but we would be where Portsmoth are now,and doomed,we haven't got the players to play that way because we can't afford the best players.To have been in the premier league for all but a couple of years is a miracle,Sam's not everybodys cup of tea but under our cicumstance's he is probably the best man for the job,Ican't beleive people call the board as well,what they have done with very little dosh is unbeleivabe,all we need is Dunny or our new signing Basturk when fit to take the place of Andrews and we should be ok,and playing in the big league again next season,and remember the so called smaller teams,Wigan,Burnley,West Ham who are trying to play the "Arsenal way" are all below us in the table,and then cast an eye in the championship and league 1,and see how many "big" clubs are down there,who would love to be in our position,a lot of Rovers fans just do not relise how lucky we are,and to watch at rock bottom prices too,stop moaning and start cheering...........

[FourLaneBlue]

We certainly do not budget to be 17th in wages; if we did then we might have a decent 'war chest'

We target mid-table on wages and that certainly has not gone down under Sam, despite the Trustees asking it to come down.

If the current lot of players, after the sales, are paid to finish 14-11th, then that is where I expect them to finish.

I find that way of looking at it too simplistic however.

Wages are not enough. They are only one part of it. The money also has to be invested so that the squad remains of the same quality. If you stand still in football, and do not replenish the squad with new players and replace the old, then in football that is going backwards.

We are budgeted for finishing 13th.

I will just take the liberty to discuss the terms you use there philip.

I dispute that we really are budgeting to finish 13th. Instead I think 13th is probably our "break-even" point. Therefore we need to be finishing 13th to get our money back on our investment and not have to reduce costs. That is all well and good but not the same as "budgeting" for 13th.

If we were budgeting for 13th then that would mean that we are paying the 13th highest wages and also allowing our manager the 13th highest level of resources to rejig and rebuild parts of the squad when needed. Surely the club in this league that pays out the 13th highest level of funds...which includes wages but not only, is the team that is budgeting for 13th.

13th is more like the break-even point. However unless that level of funds are available to the manager then they are just empty words from the board.

If you can see what I am aiming at...we could say we were budgeting for the Champions League if we wanted to but it is how much we are investing that allows that to be reasonably likely or not in reality.

[Miker]

Whether we budget for 13th place or not, I think the general expectation from the board and from the fans is, or at least should be, 13th. If we finish at 13th or higher then Sam should be credited for the achievement and I believe most people should feel fairly satisfied as far as this season is concerned. If we do finish lower (ie. 17th), it will still be acceptable, but the pressure will build up on Sam and we can rightfully demand a big improvement from him for next season.

[thenodrog]

............it would be very nice to play like Arsenal every week,

..........and remember the so called smaller teams,Wigan,Burnley,West Ham who are trying to play the "Arsenal way" are all below us in the table,

Such is the stupidity of football fans that an increasing number of Arsenal 'supporters' are publically expressing dissatisfication about the performance of Arsene Wenger! Arsenal have won nowt for a time but their success a few seasons ago has now become a burden.

Even worse despite the financial doo doo that Utd and Lpool are wallowing in and despite the generosity of Abromovich in literally saving Chelsea from the bullet (twice) their business model is now being derided because they are not splashing enough cash on players.

[FourLaneBlue]

Whether we budget for 13th place or not, I think the general expectation from the board and from the fans is, or at least should be, 13th.

On what grounds exactly?

About 3 years back we were told 12th or 13th or 14th was our stated goal each season and anything else is a bonus.

Since then we have got rid of Bentley, Brad, Tugay, Savage, Derbyshire, Santa Cruz, Warnock, Benni and...er...Aaron Mokoena.

I would not say the board has handied any of our last three managers the wherewithal to replace such quality. They have had enough to bring in some replacements but to replace ALL those - especially The Axe - fully?

That's why I think keeping the target every season at 13th might be asking too much if we are not only expecting our managers to sell before they can buy but also to sell high and buy low...

Getting tougher each year unless the board start to go back to at least the level of spending Hughes was allowed in his first few years.

[Seedstral]

At last people with common sense are coming to the fore. I'm not a big fan of the football being played but to be honest i dont care how we get our points to keep us up as long as we do i'll be happy. What do we really want a free flowing football team like in the Carling Cup semi 2nd leg but gets beat 6-4 or a grafting team who gets a 1-0 win at home. I know what i'd rather have and its the latter as it means our beloved footbal club is still in the promised land that is the Premier League as relegation will be catastrophic for a club like ours. Some people need to take a reality check and be grateful that we weren't that Pompey fan stood outside the High Court last week crying his eyes out in public as he was fearing that the club hes supported all his life was about to be wound up and that we are actually 11th in the Premier League and although not in the greatest financial health we are not on our knees either!!

[Steve Moss]

I think we'll survive and finish between 11th and 15th. I'd beat closer to 11th than 15th. While we haven't broken any records this year, there are quite a few teams who are really struggling. This has been a bad year and we should be counting our blessings.

[Miker]

On what grounds exactly?

About 3 years back we were told 12th or 13th or 14th was our stated goal each season and anything else is a bonus.

Since then we have got rid of Bentley, Brad, Tugay, Savage, Derbyshire, Santa Cruz, Warnock, Benni and...er...Aaron Mokoena.

I would not say the board has handied any of our last three managers the wherewithal to replace such quality. They have had enough to bring in some replacements but to replace ALL those - especially The Axe - fully?

That's why I think keeping the target every season at 13th might be asking too much if we are not only expecting our managers to sell before they can buy but also to sell high and buy low...

Getting tougher each year unless the board start to go back to at least the level of spending Hughes was allowed in his first few years.

I can't remember the exact details of the Williams' article a while back, but I'm pretty sure he indicated that with the expenses we have, we need to be finishing in 13th, due to the extra money we get from that position. So I would assume that the expectation is for Sam to achieve 13th, as that will be a stable position financially and might result in improved investment. If we finish lower, I imagine Sam would be expected to sell players again and it will be harder for him to build.

So based on that, we should be aiming for 13th, but as I said, I wouldn't be devastated if we finished lower. It would be disappointing though.

[RovertheHill]

WE SHOULD BY ALL RIGHTS NOT BE IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE

we have no right to expect good football

The fact of the matter is this. If your attitude becomes pervasive within the club then it will, without a doubt, become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Allardyce needs to set high expectations like Hughes. Nobody ever achieved anything by saying "we're never gonna do this".

As for having no right to expect good football I beg to differ. There have been plenty of times where we've played exciting, attacking football this season. Usually when behind at home and the stupid defensive tactics are abandoned. Why can we not play like that at home, especially against the lower teams, all the time? I think I have a right to expect that the team plays as well as it can actually.

[Miker]

The fact of the matter is this. If your attitude becomes pervasive within the club then it will, without a doubt, become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Allardyce needs to set high expectations like Hughes. Nobody ever achieved anything by saying "we're never gonna do this".

As for having no right to expect good football I beg to differ. There have been plenty of times where we've played exciting, attacking football this season. Usually when behind at home and the stupid defensive tactics are abandoned. Why can we not play like that at home, especially against the lower teams, all the time? I think I have a right to expect that the team plays as well as it can actually.

I think we should expect more from the team, we should expect good performance week after week and we should expect us to do as well as we possibly can, rather than aiming to stay in the Premier League. Although I support Allardyce 100%, I would never deny the things I've just said. I do believe in the fact that this is a transitional season and we should only expect progress, not instant results. If people cannot see the progress made under the current reign, then they are simply being ignorant to the truth. If people are unhappy with the quality of football on offer, then that's another story.

[yoda]

I'm fed up with all these critics of Sam, WE SHOULD BY ALL RIGHTS NOT BE IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE, we are a small town club whose stature is that of Championship at best. These past 10 years have seen our club punch well above weight and haven't we enjoyed, but apparantly it's gone to alot of fans heads. Under Souness, an amazing first year in the Premier League brought us 10th place and the League Cup providing funds to keep the club stable, coupled with the money from Duff and Dunn and Europe we were able to bring in players of premier league ability. Then Hughes brought us even further success due to his scouting network and we were able to maintain steady progress. The latter part of Hughes' reign the club failed to make much money available which is understandable by all acounts. Our gate receipts are poor, im guessing we have relatively poor merchandising sale etc meant the club had no major income, sales from Roque and others have had to be used to pay off debts. YET WE ARE STILL IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE. Thanks to John Williams who is a fantastic chief and Sam Allarydyce who has kept the club stable in that we aren't in a major relegation battle, got to the semis of the carling cup and has made Ewood fortress. So what if were playing boring football, I completely agree that we do but I couldnt care less as long as we stay up, we have no right to expect good football when you look at what Rovers have at their disposal. Fact is Sam is the man who can actually take us forward, look at Bolton. It took time/years but they were challenging for Europe like us just a 4/5 years ago. As it is, given we keep hold of our current squad bar Andrews, get a goalscoring striker and were challenge for Europe next year, fact!

You earn the "RIGHT" and we have damn well earned it

[den]

A bit of misconstruction of the facts here lads.

There is no budgetting to finish anywhere. The club will put as much money to the manager as is possible. They don't say to Sam "here's enough money to finish 17th this season". JW simply uses the wage bill to make a general judgement of success - as he sees it. In his opinion, if we have the tenth highest wage bill, then anything higher than tenth place finish is a tick, - a plus. Anything less than a tenth place finish, is in his words a minus.

Don't get carried away the idea that the club aim for a final league position.

[PAFELL]

In that case how you feel if Givet played centre back with Samba back to target man and Kalinic playing off him , Sams tactic seemed more effective when we actually had a target man worth aiming for.

I suppose if Samba was the target man he may just get yellow cards and not red.

[unsall]

At last people with common sense are coming to the fore. I'm not a big fan of the football being played but to be honest i dont care how we get our points to keep us up as long as we do i'll be happy. What do we really want a free flowing football team like in the Carling Cup semi 2nd leg but gets beat 6-4 or a grafting team who gets a 1-0 win at home. I know what i'd rather have and its the latter as it means our beloved footbal club is still in the promised land that is the Premier League as relegation will be catastrophic for a club like ours. Some people need to take a reality check and be grateful that we weren't that Pompey fan stood outside the High Court last week crying his eyes out in public as he was fearing that the club hes supported all his life was about to be wound up and that we are actually 11th in the Premier League and although not in the greatest financial health we are not on our knees either!!

Spot on my friend.

[CrazyIvan]

I've posted this on this thread before and will state it again. Big Sam is ideal for this club right now and for the foreseeable future, there is no-one better. I'm not moaning about the football or the tactics (unless they are awful, like Man City away) because we have to be realistic and genuinely hope for better when Sam has got the team he wants or, at least, got close to it.

We have a right to be in the Premier League. We've earned that right 10 years on the bounce. What we don't have is a divine right to stay in this league nor a divine right to expect excellent football every match because nobody plays like that and I mean nobody. Not Brazil, Bolton, Arsenal or Real Madrid. I would love to see winning Brazil like football every game but I support a small town club with no money in the 'biggest league in the world' (sky trademark ). I am realistic but positive. Those fans who wish Sam gone would be wishing for relegation because I can see no-one who could come in and take over keeping us in this league. Be realistic too, Hughes will never come back, Hiddink will never come here and we have no Abramovic to buy us anything we wish for.

Have faith.

[MeanGreenMachine]

..... I can't believe people are so brainwashed.

You seriously believe their is nobody else who could keep us up while trying to play abit of football at the same time? Really?

[Hughesy]

A bit of misconstruction of the facts here lads.

There is no budgetting to finish anywhere. The club will put as much money to the manager as is possible. They don't say to Sam "here's enough money to finish 17th this season". JW simply uses the wage bill to make a general judgement of success - as he sees it. In his opinion, if we have the tenth highest wage bill, then anything higher than tenth place finish is a tick, - a plus. Anything less than a tenth place finish, is in his words a minus.

Don't get carried away the idea that the club aim for a final league position.

13th was the aim in the budget....anything higher is a bonus

[LeChuck]

You seriously believe their is nobody else who could keep us up while trying to play abit of football at the same time? Really?

Of course that's a bit of a silly suggestion, there will managers out there who could do that.

The thing is though, it would be a massive risk at the moment to try and find someone who could because it isn't even remotely clear who those managers are. It would be another gamble, like Ince was. Next time we might get lucky and find a brilliant manager, but we could just as easily find another person out of their depth and taking the club to relegation and everything that would lead to.

We were lucky that someone like Allardyce was available to save us last time. Next time we might not be so fortunate if we made a bad appointment. It's just far, far too much of a risk to think about taking a gamble on another manager whilst we're near the top half of the table. If we ever look like we're going to be around the bottom three then maybe that can change.