[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[MeanGreenMachine]

4 out of those 6 didn't cost a penny in transfer fees, we can't expect quality if we're not prepared to spend. I think you've been harsh on Jacobsen too by the way, he's done a fine job at replacing Ooijer.

I think you may have lost touch with what £6 million buys you now, in reference to your point about Kalinic. Look at what the other £6-£8 million strikers signed this summer have achieved, Kalinic has probably turned out the best of the lot.

True but they don't play for free, and the outlay in wages would be a tidy sum.

And on Niko, we sold Derbyshire for peanuts and he bagged 5 goals in 22 games in his last season with us. Nike has played a similar amount of games and scored 1 more i think. Not really a massive improvement when we needed to replace a 20 goal a season man like RSC.

[thenodrog]

True but they don't play for free, and the outlay in wages would be a tidy sum.

And on Niko, we sold Derbyshire for peanuts and he bagged 5 goals in 22 games in his last season with us. Nike has played a similar amount of games and scored 1 more i think. Not really a massive improvement when we needed to replace a 20 goal a season man like RSC.

I thought RSC only got one in his last season with us? Did I miss another 19 somewhere?

Anyway the obvious way to replace a 18m striker unless huge dollops of luck are involved is surely to buy another for the same money isn't it? We can't do that anymore.

Oh and another thing imo the money that we got for Derbs was one hell of a deal.

[ABBEY]

Ah the inevitable caps! You are really childish these days Abbey. Just like that idiot Waggy, same old crap over and over. Sad.

blah blah...another reeled in.same crap.just like zzzzam then ...just becuse someone doesnt have the same opinion doesnt mean its crap or childish.

[Majiball]

raise the roof?why so we can kick the ball higher?

[mellison24]

True but they don't play for free, and the outlay in wages would be a tidy sum.

And on Niko, we sold Derbyshire for peanuts and he bagged 5 goals in 22 games in his last season with us. Nike has played a similar amount of games and scored 1 more i think. Not really a massive improvement when we needed to replace a 20 goal a season man like RSC.

3mill is peanuts? Kalinic has a FAR more rounded game than Derbs and is roughly 2 years younger.

1 more goal. A more rounded game. 2 years younger. While a finisher like Derbs, he can also create his own chances. Derbs relied on other players constantly to create. Kalinic can also play effectively from the start of a match rather than just from the bench.

That's why it's still a good deal.

(Add Theno's point here too).

[MeanGreenMachine]

I thought RSC only got one in his last season with us? Did I miss another 19 somewhere?

Is a fit RSC a 20 goal a season striker? I think he shown enough while he was here to safely say what a good player he was.

Anyway the obvious way to replace a 18m striker unless huge dollops of luck are involved is surely to buy another for the same money isn't it? We can't do that anymore.

Heres me thinking McCarthy and RSC came in for record fee's....

Oh and another thing imo the money that we got for Derbs was one hell of a deal.

Did i say it wasnt? My point is we let go of someone around the same level for half the price.

For 6million Kalanic hasn't done enough to justify that price tag.

[bellamy11]

Is a fit RSC a 20 goal a season striker? I think he shown enough while he was here to safely say what a good player he was.

RSC has only scored 20 goals in a season once in his entire life. The 23 he scored in one season for us was the first time he scored more than 8 goals since 1999 (when he scored 18 in Paraguay - easily his second best season).

[mellison24]

Is a fit RSC a 20 goal a season striker? I think he shown enough while he was here to safely say what a good player he was. In one season yes, but he didn't want to be here, so we got rid for a good sum and what has he done since, exactly?

Heres me thinking McCarthy and RSC came in for record fee's....No they didn't. they came in for 3.5 and 2.5 mill respectively. We've paid FAR more before.

Did i say it wasnt? My point is we let go of someone around the same level for half the price.See my previous post on this

For 6million Kalanic hasn't done enough to justify that price tag.He hasn't DONE enough, but he's SHOWN enough. Wait until next season and he'll prove you wrong. Feel free to point this post out if I am required to eat humble pie later on, though

[tony gale's mic]

Is a fit RSC a 20 goal a season striker? I think he shown enough while he was here to safely say what a good player he was.

Heres me thinking McCarthy and RSC came in for record fee's....

Did i say it wasnt? My point is we let go of someone around the same level for half the price.

For 6million Kalanic hasn't done enough to justify that price tag.

Some people don't half talk some rubbish just to give Big Sam a bit of stick..

As has been previously said, RSC only showed that form once in his entire career - and he's in his late twenties. You know Michael Ricketts scored near on 20 goals one season in his career? Not that I'm saying theyre of similar abilities, but it's highly unlikely he ever wouldve come close to that.

McCarthy and RSC were brilliant signings. To use them as some kind of benchmark is highly unfair - most of the rest of the league couldnt believe the calibre of player we were getting for £5m or less (I use that figure as it includes Bellamy too). Use what other clubs have signed this season as a benchmark.

And to say Kalinic is "around the same level" is yet more rubbish - sure goals scored might not differ much but anyone can see that Kalinic is a much better player who's still settling into the league, has been unusually unlucky with woodwork/disallowed goals and is also 2 or 3 years younger than Derbyshire too. Derbyshire had reached his level with us when he left - it's likely that Kalinic will improve further.

[FourLaneBlue]

Is a fit RSC a 20 goal a season striker? I think he shown enough while he was here to safely say what a good player he was.

No he is not.

RSC has only scored 20 goals once in his career.

Heres me thinking McCarthy and RSC came in for record fee's....

They were bargains by Hughes. Has any other striker come in at another club for that kind of money in the last year or so? We got lucky with Hughes by having a great scout and judge of player.

Did i say it wasnt? My point is we let go of someone around the same level for half the price.

For 6million Kalanic hasn't done enough to justify that price tag.

Derbyshire is not around the same level as Kalinic.

Kalinic hasn't done enough to justify his fee yet but he is blossoming slowly but surely.

[Steve Moss]

And to say Kalinic is "around the same level" is yet more rubbish - sure goals scored might not differ much but anyone can see that Kalinic is a much better player who's still settling into the league, has been unusually unlucky with woodwork/disallowed goals and is also 2 or 3 years younger than Derbyshire too. Derbyshire had reached his level with us when he left - it's likely that Kalinic will improve further.

Don't forget the language issue. Kalinic is constantly being fouled and, the best I can make out, he has to swallow his frustration as he doesn't speak English all that well. As his language skills improve he'll be able to point out the cheap shots more and his performance should increase.

Am I wrong on this?

[AggyBlue]

Don't forget the language issue. Kalinic is constantly being fouled and, the best I can make out, he has to swallow his frustration as he doesn't speak English all that well. As his language skills improve he'll be able to point out the cheap shots more and his performance should increase.

Am I wrong on this?

whoops I missed off the "g"' hell ref

You're not telling me he hasn't learned those three words yet

[mellison24]

whoops I missed off the "g"' hell ref

You're not telling me he hasn't learned those three words yet

I'd have thought body language would tell all.

[Majiball]

With him now being here for 7.5 months for me he should be well on his way to speaking English fluently. Costs are pretty minimal for a tutor in the grand scale of things and they have a serious amount of free time.

[Stuart]

With him now being here for 7.5 months for me he should be well on his way to speaking English fluently. Costs are pretty minimal for a tutor in the grand scale of things and they have a serious amount of free time.

Not that it's really an excuse but Tevez can barely speak English...

[DanLad]

Not that it's really an excuse but Tevez can barely speak English...

Tevez is barely human...

Woof!

[Majiball]

Not that it's really an excuse but Tevez can barely speak English...

I personally am disgusted when people move to a foreign country and don't learn the language. Having lived in two different ones in my time I learnt the lingo's, mainly from mates as I could not afford the tutors. Communication is key on the pitch and if Tevez can't be arsed with all the money he earns then that for me says a lot about the lad.

[S15]

I personally am disgusted when people move to a foreign country and don't learn the language. Having lived in two different ones in my time I learnt the lingo's, mainly from mates as I could not afford the tutors. Communication is key on the pitch and if Tevez can't be arsed with all the money he earns then that for me says a lot about the lad.

To be fair I wouldn't be too judgemental as one thing I would definitely do in his position is learn the lingo but tell the press I can't speak English. Tugay pulled this one for years so I wouldn't rule it out with Tevez.

[Majiball]

My link

[trueblue]

Can we get this thread back on topic please... it's supposed to be about Sam Allardyce and last I heard he spoke perfectly good English

[S15]

My link

Pisses on my theory.

Ps. Allardyce is the special one.

[Majiball]

Pisses on my theory.

Ps. Allardyce is the special one.

I remembered the articke thats all, your response was perfectly valid.

Ps. What kind of special is he??? :lol:

[tcj_jones]

I always said that after the Bolton game was the time to judge Sam. Well, 11 games to go and we're in mid-table with 34 points and 10 clear of the relegation zone. Our home record is superb and our record against those around is also very impressive. His two key signings both got on the score sheet and had flawless games, N'Zonzi continues to impress, Olsson is getting better every week and Hoilett was included from the start. His football might not be the best but, the evidence suggests it is effective.

[LeChuck]

Isn't that 4 wins out of the last 6 games? Plus a draw away at West Ham in there too.

We can't ask for much more than that. Yes, we struggle against the higher teams and that's something that needs to be worked out...but, in reality, it's far more important to take points off the teams around you, and Sam is doing a brilliant job at doing that so far.

We're now in the enviable position of being able to look upwards rather than over our shoulder. The top eight is pretty much sorted, but everyone below Everton can be caught and overtaken.

[tcj_jones]

While we are in an enviable position, it should be remembered that we have a very tough run of games on the horizon. While we won't be in a relegation scrap, we shouldn't get too excited either, because I don't think we'll be sitting any higher than 12th - 14th come May.