[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[John]

You could do that with every club, though. Arsenal is a perfect example. Could probably put together a long set of clips just on Bendtner's misses - but they get enough chances to finally get some in.

Sam was saying yesterday the difference is that top clubs don't need as many chances to score - as obvious as it sounds, his main point was that we don't have the quality to score goals consistently. And to improve next season, he would have to try and find a proven goal scorer - you could say that about most clubs too, but that's football.

Arsenal is not a good example as they are probably the best attacking team in Europe....bit harsh comparing us with them, we are not creating that many chances!

[Harry Balls]

The above was achieved in a YEAR and whilst things are not perfect, can you not see progress?

Course I can. And I'm not insinuating Sam's demise. But we are comparing his performance as our manager to that of the muppet that was Paul Ince. Relative to Sparky, or even Souness, he's doing an average job at best.

Like I said before, it's the lack of ambition that bugs me (and I assume many others) the most. Add to that all the safety first malarkey, the over-reliance on statistics, the rigid and stubborn tactics which inevitably lead to ###### poor football. And that's not even mentioning the audacity of the man to even think about attempting to pull the wool over our eyes by blaming the players when it was he who screwed up...

I don't like him and his ProZone one bit. But in spite of this, I can hold my hand up and say that he is doing a OK job with our club.

My fear though, is that under Sam all we'll ever be is just that, OK.

[imy9]

Course I can. And I'm not insinuating Sam's demise. But we are comparing his performance as our manager to that of the muppet that was Paul Ince. Relative to Sparky, or even Souness, he's doing an average job at best.

Like I said before, it's the lack of ambition that bugs me (and I assume many others) the most. Add to that all the safety first malarkey, the over-reliance on statistics, the rigid and stubborn tactics which inevitably lead to ###### poor football. And that's not even mentioning the audacity of the man to even think about attempting to pull the wool over our eyes by blaming the players when it was he who screwed up...

I don't like him and his ProZone one bit. But in spite of this, I can hold my hand up and say that he is doing a OK job with our club.

My fear though, is that under Sam all we'll ever be is just that, OK.

Surely comparing Sam to Hughes and Souness is unfair as Sam has been in charge a year? You can do this at the end of his tenure? Regardless his win loss record will stand up to scrutiny as well as what he has had to work with. Hughes had money to spend, Souness more so, Sam has had zip in comparison.

Ambition?Is that not down to the club owners? If someone gave you the job and said sell your best assets and make sure you survive and you are vying for a top 10 finish is this not better than average? Look at the clubs directly below or above us and look at what they've spent, is Sam not working wonders competing with them, Sunderland being a prime example.

Pro zone is and was used by Hughes, under Sam at Bolton he was challenging for a top 4 spot, given time I think we will be a top 8 side.

I like your honesty, you hate Sam. So all the reasoning given will make no difference to you-oh the gripe about blaming players, interesting that no current player has complained-remember under Ince there were constant moans.

What I would like to see the end of is 'Sam out' campaigns when we lose two or three on the bounce, he has earned our respect and deserves better-sticking to gripes about the game and not making it personal... But then again I always did have a Mary Poppins view on life!!

[Harry Balls]

Surely comparing Sam to Hughes and Souness is unfair as Sam has been in charge a year? You can do this at the end of his tenure? Regardless his win loss record will stand up to scrutiny as well as what he has had to work with. Hughes had money to spend, Souness more so, Sam has had zip in comparison.

Ambition?Is that not down to the club owners? If someone gave you the job and said sell your best assets and make sure you survive and you are vying for a top 10 finish is this not better than average? Look at the clubs directly below or above us and look at what they've spent, is Sam not working wonders competing with them, Sunderland being a prime example.

Pro zone is and was used by Hughes, under Sam at Bolton he was challenging for a top 4 spot, given time I think we will be a top 8 side.

I like your honesty, you hate Sam. So all the reasoning given will make no difference to you-oh the gripe about blaming players, interesting that no current player has complained-remember under Ince there were constant moans.

What I would like to see the end of is 'Sam out' campaigns when we lose two or three on the bounce, he has earned our respect and deserves better-sticking to gripes about the game and not making it personal... But then again I always did have a Mary Poppins view on life!!

Fair enough. To each their own I guess. But I don't hate Sam, just think he's a bit of a bell-end from time to time (today being one of those times).

I really hope Sam does a blinding job for us. First and foremost, I support Blackburn Rovers Football Club and if he does well, our club does well and there's not much I want more than that. I doubt that he'd ever get us relegated but I also doubt that his stubbornness will ever subside and that we'll ever strive for anything other than mediocrity under his leadership.

[John]

Course I can. And I'm not insinuating Sam's demise. But we are comparing his performance as our manager to that of the muppet that was Paul Ince. Relative to Sparky, or even Souness, he's doing an average job at best.

Like I said before, it's the lack of ambition that bugs me (and I assume many others) the most. Add to that all the safety first malarkey, the over-reliance on statistics, the rigid and stubborn tactics which inevitably lead to ###### poor football. And that's not even mentioning the audacity of the man to even think about attempting to pull the wool over our eyes by blaming the players when it was he who screwed up...

I don't like him and his ProZone one bit. But in spite of this, I can hold my hand up and say that he is doing a OK job with our club.

My fear though, is that under Sam all we'll ever be is just that, OK.

Sam has said he needs to be given time to build/improve the club - is he not allowed that?

[Amo]

The extraordinary thing about this forum is that there's no middle ground. If you credit the manager, you're accused of being a fully paid member of the Allardyce fanclub. If you criticize him, you're branded a hater. This topic itself proves it, as apparently I "won't be happy until he's gone" despite the fact I have never once called for Sam's head this season.

[Majiball]

The extraordinary thing about this forum is that there's no middle ground. If you credit the manager, you're accused of being a fully paid member of the Allardyce fanclub. If you criticize him, you're branded a hater. This topic itself proves it, as apparently I "won't be happy until he's gone" despite the fact I have never once called for Sam's head this season.

Shades of grey don't exist on BRFCS, its the same on almost every thread.

[American]

Sam was saying yesterday the difference is that top clubs don't need as many chances to score - as obvious as it sounds, his main point was that we don't have the quality to score goals consistently. And to improve next season, he would have to try and find a proven goal scorer - you could say that about most clubs too, but that's football.

Arsenal is not a good example as they are probably the best attacking team in Europe....bit harsh comparing us with them, we are not creating that many chances!

I think strategy-wise, Arsenal is a perfect example of why better chances can be made. All we did once up a man was rush down the wings and then lump it in the box, by which time they had been able to get enough players back. Arsenal, on the other hand, runs the ball into the box and attacks down the center of the pitch as much as down the wings, which is what we were doing much more before the sending off leading to much better chances.

Edit: Also, interesting to note that towards the end of the match, MGP was going to take a throw and was having problems with the wet ball. He tried to yell to teammates to come closer for the throw, but they are so trained to do the long throws in those positions, that no one came and the throw didn't make it to the box.

[imy9]

Fair enough. To each their own I guess. But I don't hate Sam, just think he's a bit of a bell-end from time to time (today being one of those times).

I really hope Sam does a blinding job for us. First and foremost, I support Blackburn Rovers Football Club and if he does well, our club does well and there's not much I want more than that. I doubt that he'd ever get us relegated but I also doubt that his stubbornness will ever subside and that we'll ever strive for anything other than mediocrity under his leadership.

100% agree, who said people cant find a middle ground on this message board

[thenodrog]

Tell me, when you're old and wrinkly, can't control your bladder and can barely wipe your own arse anymore, what are you going to tell your grandkids? Will it it be of the days where we avoided relegation, played hoof-ball percentage football, made loads of money and generally strove for mediocrity?

I'm afraid under Sam, those are the only stories we'll have to tell...

Probably not But I'd imagine we'd have had lots to tell em if Ince had stayed.

Thing is that without much money to spend the team, performances and league position is improving all the time. Look around and that is no mean feat for anybody. Without the riches available to Man City managers etc can we reasonably expect anything else? If so how and why?

[Fife Rover]

When Sam Allardyce was first mooted as becoming our manager I was dead against it (NO I didn't sign the Facebook petition!!). However when he eventually DID become our manager, I accepted the fact that he was at that time not only the best candidate of those applying to drag us back from the brink that Ince had left us on, but actually in reallity the best candidate even if we had an unlimited choice.

So I got behind him regardless of personal feelings, and as all true Rovers fans should, gave him my full support. As time has gone by since his appointment my original feelings about Sam have changed to full-on admiration for what that man has achieved in the face of the kind of difficuties that the vast majority of recognised football managers would not have even contemplated accepting. He has had to operate on a very very tight budget (far less than any Rovers manager since Jack Walker came in). He has had virtually all his "star" players sold from under him, and has had to buy in the "car boot sale dept" of top class football. In spite of this he not only saved us from certain relegation last season (with room to spare) but has pulled us round this season and by a combination of his experience and nous of the game has moved us slowly but surely up the table to were we are now.......safe from relegation and in with a chance of a top half finish and all without any money to spend in comparison with every other manager in the EPL. Is that not an achievement? Does anybody believe that any of our recent managers could have matched it ( or even have tried to match it)? Hughes and Souness would have walked out of the door if they had been asked to do even half of what Sam has had to do, and most of us (assuming that HAD happened) would have fully agreed with them in that situation.

But not Big Sam.....he has shown he is made of sterner stuff, and has used his past knowledge and experience to Rovers benefit. As far as I am concerned the man deserves huge credit for that and probably deserves the freedom of Blackburn or some such honour as well. All the Allardyce detractors should think again and having thunk should change their stance and get right behind the manager and his team ......Yes you as well Waggy!!!!!

[John]

But not Big Sam.....he has shown he is made of sterner stuff, and has used his past knowledge and experience to Rovers benefit. As far as I am concerned the man deserves huge credit for that and probably deserves the freedom of Blackburn or some such honour as well. All the Allardyce detractors should think again and having thunk should change their stance and get right behind the manager and his team ......Yes you as well Waggy!!!!!

Great comments - we should not forget the impressive job he did last season too, when we looked down and out.

[Kelbo]

When Sam Allardyce was first mooted as becoming our manager I was dead against it (NO I didn't sign the Facebook petition!!). However when he eventually DID become our manager, I accepted the fact that he was at that time not only the best candidate of those applying to drag us back from the brink that Ince had left us on, but actually in reallity the best candidate even if we had an unlimited choice.

So I got behind him regardless of personal feelings, and as all true Rovers fans should, gave him my full support. As time has gone by since his appointment my original feelings about Sam have changed to full-on admiration for what that man has achieved in the face of the kind of difficuties that the vast majority of recognised football managers would not have even contemplated accepting. He has had to operate on a very very tight budget (far less than any Rovers manager since Jack Walker came in). He has had virtually all his "star" players sold from under him, and has had to buy in the "car boot sale dept" of top class football. In spite of this he not only saved us from certain relegation last season (with room to spare) but has pulled us round this season and by a combination of his experience and nous of the game has moved us slowly but surely up the table to were we are now.......safe from relegation and in with a chance of a top half finish and all without any money to spend in comparison with every other manager in the EPL. Is that not an achievement? Does anybody believe that any of our recent managers could have matched it ( or even have tried to match it)? Hughes and Souness would have walked out of the door if they had been asked to do even half of what Sam has had to do, and most of us (assuming that HAD happened) would have fully agreed with them in that situation.

But not Big Sam.....he has shown he is made of sterner stuff, and has used his past knowledge and experience to Rovers benefit. As far as I am concerned the man deserves huge credit for that and probably deserves the freedom of Blackburn or some such honour as well. All the Allardyce detractors should think again and having thunk should change their stance and get right behind the manager and his team ......Yes you as well Waggy!!!!!

Great post, I am not a great lover of his type of football but the guy has had little option, has done a tremendous job for the club!

[tony gale's mic]

I think strategy-wise, Arsenal is a perfect example of why better chances can be made. All we did once up a man was rush down the wings and then lump it in the box, by which time they had been able to get enough players back. Arsenal, on the other hand, runs the ball into the box and attacks down the center of the pitch as much as down the wings, which is what we were doing much more before the sending off leading to much better chances.

I think his point was that it's an utterly irrelevant comparison to make. Give us Fabregas and we'll attack down the centre of the pitch.

[American]

If we're not going to attack down the middle, what's the point of having MGP and Dunn playing in the middle? Put an extra body up front to deal with the crosses.

[philipl]

I think his point was that it's an utterly irrelevant comparison to make. Give us Fabregas and we'll attack down the centre of the pitch.

If you look at the stats after every Rovers game, 70%+ of all our attacks go straight down the middle with the two wings contributing a bit over 10% each. These figures crops up every time.

[Miker]

I think strategy-wise, Arsenal is a perfect example of why better chances can be made. All we did once up a man was rush down the wings and then lump it in the box, by which time they had been able to get enough players back. Arsenal, on the other hand, runs the ball into the box and attacks down the center of the pitch as much as down the wings, which is what we were doing much more before the sending off leading to much better chances.

I seem to remember us having a lot more chances after the sending off

[Miker]

Some people really need to get off their high horses! Does it make you better people if you never criticize anything the manager does?

Yes, yes it does. It makes me a happier person because I don't have to constantly feel frustrated and stressed about the manager.

Sam is a professional and he'll go about his job in a way that will keep this club in the Premier League and possibly more. I don't see any need to criticise him because in my eyes his success outweighs his mistakes by far. I can deal with his mistakes (which I see very few of) because I know that people aren't perfect, especially in a job like his, where it's literally impossible to get your decisions spot on 100% of the time. If I was an idealist, like you seem to be, I would believe that this perfection is somehow possible and we should nitpick every single flaw we can find. Unfortunately, I'm a realist, so I look at our current situation and I see it as reasonable. The manager simply isn't the biggest flaw of this club, there's a lot of factors to blame for our club's inadequacies and for me to point the finger at Sam every time something goes wrong just because he's the manager would be irresponsible. He is, after all, just one man.

[LeChuck]

If you look at the stats after every Rovers game, 70%+ of all our attacks go straight down the middle with the two wings contributing a bit over 10% each. These figures crops up every time.

Where are those stats available?

I'm surprised if they're right, this is the Guardian Chalkboard of our passes against Portsmouth:

There's a huge gap in the middle relative to how congested the wings are. Other teams don't seem to have that sparsity in the centre, I can't be bothered taking screen shots of those though.

[Eddie]

I'll respond to the post 47er made on here as it is the more suitable topic.

I'm happy to say that I would rather have Allardyce at this point. He's done a good job of opening up our style of play a bit and shifting away from the long ball, although I think the team would still benefit from doing it a bit more. He's put pace into the side and we don't sit back quite as much as we used to. As far as the "I'd rather have Ince": I'll stick by the fact that I did at the time. Ince was pretty clueless; so was Allardyce for a while.

Having said that, these were all the areas that I and others thought were easy fixes, they were the reasons we were unhappy (and to an extent continue to be unhappy in varying degrees). It doesn't make us wrong because results have picked up, it has simply shown that we were correct. Now I'm a big enough man to admit that as Allardyce has made these changes I'm happy to see him stick around, but there are still areas where I remain skeptical (transfers being one of them), but I think we'll get a lot of answers in the next transfer window and the beginning of next season.

Would I be pleased if tomorrow I woke up and Allardyce had signed a new contract? No. Do I think he's the messiah? No. Do I think that only he could have done the job he's done? No (I'd go as far to say that from March of last year until around November/December of this year the majority of managers knocking around the top two divisions would have done better and I'll stick by that). Would I like to see him sacked? No.

I'll always be critical of the manager. If I supported United there would be things I'd not like about Ferguson. If I supported Arsenal there would be things I'd not like about Wenger. I'm not stupid enough to mindlessly stick to my position though and I'm content with Allardyce being the manager for now. If he goes out and signs four players the wrong age of 30 this summer my opinion might change. If we open next season up by lumping the ball forward my position will change.

I support the club, not a manager. I'll never boo at a match, I'll don't moan loudly during games. I'll complain Sunday-Friday if I see fit and on Saturday the manager has to prove his stuff. Lately Allardyce has been doing that, up until a few months ago he wasn't. He keeps doing the job and I won't complain about him, if things regress then I will.

[imy9]

I'll respond to the post 47er made on here as it is the more suitable topic.

I'm happy to say that I would rather have Allardyce at this point. He's done a good job of opening up our style of play a bit and shifting away from the long ball, although I think the team would still benefit from doing it a bit more. He's put pace into the side and we don't sit back quite as much as we used to. As far as the "I'd rather have Ince": I'll stick by the fact that I did at the time. Ince was pretty clueless; so was Allardyce for a while.

Having said that, these were all the areas that I and others thought were easy fixes, they were the reasons we were unhappy (and to an extent continue to be unhappy in varying degrees). It doesn't make us wrong because results have picked up, it has simply shown that we were correct. Now I'm a big enough man to admit that as Allardyce has made these changes I'm happy to see him stick around, but there are still areas where I remain skeptical (transfers being one of them), but I think we'll get a lot of answers in the next transfer window and the beginning of next season.

Would I be pleased if tomorrow I woke up and Allardyce had signed a new contract? No. Do I think he's the messiah? No. Do I think that only he could have done the job he's done? No (I'd go as far to say that from March of last year until around November/December of this year the majority of managers knocking around the top two divisions would have done better and I'll stick by that). Would I like to see him sacked? No.

I'll always be critical of the manager. If I supported United there would be things I'd not like about Ferguson. If I supported Arsenal there would be things I'd not like about Wenger. I'm not stupid enough to mindlessly stick to my position though and I'm content with Allardyce being the manager for now. If he goes out and signs four players the wrong age of 30 this summer my opinion might change. If we open next season up by lumping the ball forward my position will change.

I support the club, not a manager. I'll never boo at a match, I'll don't moan loudly during games. I'll complain Sunday-Friday if I see fit and on Saturday the manager has to prove his stuff. Lately Allardyce has been doing that, up until a few months ago he wasn't. He keeps doing the job and I won't complain about him, if things regress then I will.

Genuine question: which manager could have done better? I would be interested to see which managers in the top 2 divisions have worked under the same financial restraints as Sam (-20 million budget) and would have done better. I can think of Grant at Portsmouth but even taking into account the points deduction are still bottom.

[patrickvalery]

...........................................I support the club, not a manager. I'll never boo at a match, I'll don't moan loudly during games. I'll complain Sunday-Friday if I see fit and on Saturday the manager has to prove his stuff. Lately Allardyce has been doing that, up until a few months ago he wasn't. He keeps doing the job and I won't complain about him, if things regress then I will.

Eddie, this is all very noble of you, but you need to give credit where its due. I wasn't enamoured with his appointment, far from it. But the fact remains he has done a tremendous job thus far. To say if he continues to do as well you will remain silent, but the moment he dares not live up to your given standards is simply not fair. It seems more and more obvious to me that this league is increasingly unforgiving. Those with money can afford such quality they can play pretty football and get results. But the results and ultimately finishing positions are rarely acceptable to those who are bank rolling the whole club. Hence why so many managers at clubs with money lose their jobs. However, the other half, the ugly siblings of the glamour clubs, have to make do with survival. Come hook or by crook they have to stay on the Premier League gravy train. Unfortunately for us we are rooted in the bracket of clubs. But luckily for us we have the best man for the job at the helm.

Now i agree, it would be lovely to see attacking, flowing football. Creative players dropping inbetween banks of defence and midfield. I'd love to see us pass a side to death. But with our resources it would murder us. Each and every year there are examples to prove it. Sam took over an aging squad and he brought in personnel to keep us in the top flight. This year he has given youth a chance and next year, as you say, will highlight the direction we are taking. In my humblest opinion we should look to follow Everton. A strong, athletic core with the sprinkling of flair in key areas. I'd sooner see us play direct and batter a side than try to adopt a style which is so alien to the playing staff. Ince tried and failed. I'd wager if he gets another shot at the big time he'll adopt a safety first approach.

Big Sam has kept us up for another year. His style is as attractive as his face. But its worked. Am i close to being as happy a rover as i've ever been? A resounding no. But that is more to do with the state of league we find ourselves in. I'm very very happy to give him time to assemble a side of his own and see where it takes us. But for now we should be happy to stay up. Especially considering the chances of other, less well run clubs going in the wrong direction.

[Eddie]

Genuine question: which manager could have done better? I would be interested to see which managers in the top 2 divisions have worked under the same financial restraints as Sam (-20 million budget) and would have done better. I can think of Grant at Portsmouth but even taking into account the points deduction are still bottom.

What's the point in me saying names? I think people were capable of matching and bettering his performance for several months, but maybe some who I would have expected to have done this would have failed and others would have surprised, until they are given the actual challenge it is difficult to say. What I will say is that putting our expenditure at -20 million is a slightly misleading stat. At some point people need to realise that we sold the Santa Cruz of last year, not the season before. We sold a player who basically never played, scored a handful of goals and contributed very little based on what he had done for one season. We sold a player based on a "career year". This season...Santa Cruz has struggled to play and scored a handful of goals for a side that scores quite a few. When we sold Bentley, when we sold Duff, when we sold Shearer...those were huge blows and we never replaced them, but Jason Roberts has replaced Santa Cruz for Allardyce and done it just as well.

Eddie, this is all very noble of you, but you need to give credit where its due. I wasn't enamoured with his appointment, far from it. But the fact remains he has done a tremendous job thus far. To say if he continues to do as well you will remain silent, but the moment he dares not live up to your given standards is simply not fair...

Now i agree, it would be lovely to see attacking, flowing football....

Big Sam has kept us up for another year. His style is as attractive as his face. But its worked. Am i close to being as happy a rover as i've ever been? A resounding no...

I give him credit. I think he's made some decent signings, he's had the team playing well over the past few months, we've looked fitter and more organised during that period as well. He's done pretty much as well as he could have with his squad since January. There's still the odd selection and tactical question there for me, but overall no complaints.

I'm not expecting us to go out and play like Barcelona, but there is a middle ground. I know that there are needs-must times in seasons (like when he first took charge and when Hughes first came here) and in games (don't have a problem sticking someone up front and lumping it up there when we are trailing towards the end of game), but it shouldn't be plan A at this point. It's good to see us get away from that a bit, but hopefully we can get a bit more fluid and hold onto the ball a bit, getting a good central midfielder in would help.

This summer is when we get to see his plan. Last summer I don't think we had one, all he wanted to do was sign a striker and it got the point where he would sign anything that was going and we were really lucky to be able to hijack the Kalinic deal. This summer we need to see signs that specific positions throughout the side are being addressed, that we are bringing in players to play to a certain style. We don't need to sign 15 fullbacks and not address the centre of midfield.

[imy9]

EDDIE- the point I was making about naming managers is that there are virtually none out there who have proven themselves capable of working under the tight restrictions of Sam. Some young managers have done well in their first seasons e.g Zola but then have been found out.

I think you under play the restrictions, we had to sell Warnock-our current player of the year as well as RSC who was the POY the year before and would walk into the side today and score goals.

Sam has done a fantastic job- problem he has are two fold:

1. He is ex-Bolton and as such certain people hate him regardless of results.

2. We have been so used to over performing and pulling rabbits out of hats when it comes to signings that Sam is EXPECTED to get us a top 12 finish- look at the turnover, net spend on transfers etc of the teams around us, even Burnley have spent more!

[Eddie]

As I said, you have to look beyond some of those statistics. Of course some teams lower than us have spent more as well, but they started with less. I think this squad has just about found it's proper position in this league. I think there are one or two teams below us who could finish above us, but equally there are teams above us who I think we are better than.