[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[LeChuck]

A good manager should always pick the system that fits the players and not the other way around. Nobody's demanding that we play like Barcelona, but the usual one-dimensional tactics clearly aren't what's best for this team.

How can you say it's 'clearly' not best when we're sat in tenth?

You can argue it's not pretty, you can argue it might not work next season, but it HAS worked very well this season, there aren't any stats to suggest otherwise.

[Stuart]

People defending Allardyce's style of play do themselves no favours with this kind of over-aggressive defend-at-all-costs mentality.

I didn't see the game yesterday, but to suggest that someone who doesn't like watching aerial bombardments has a screw loose is not on in my book.

Some people are pro-Allardyce, some people aren't. It seems the anti-camp is more tolerant of opposing views than the pro-camp, which feels the need to bitch-slap every single post which could be construed as negative. It's tiresome, boring and annoying.

If people keep up with this nonsense, people are going to stop posting and we'll be left in a "Isn't Allardyce great" la-la world where everything is great.

Good post.

People seem to forget that this is an internet forum and it's all differences of opinion and the debate it stimulates.

Some can do it, some can't and have to resort to churlish comments.

Here's hoping those that can, continue to do so!

[Neil Weaver]

When we keep the ball on the floor, we look like a proper football team and would give the best in this division a run for their money on our day.

Simply wrong, as recent history (the last couple of seasons) has proven. Or you could argue we have very few 'on days'.

[Gav]

People defending Allardyce's style of play do themselves no favours with this kind of over-aggressive defend-at-all-costs mentality.

I didn't see the game yesterday, but to suggest that someone who doesn't like watching aerial bombardments has a screw loose is not on in my book.

Some people are pro-Allardyce, some people aren't. It seems the anti-camp is more tolerant of opposing views than the pro-camp, which feels the need to bitch-slap every single post which could be construed as negative. It's tiresome, boring and annoying.

If people keep up with this nonsense, people are going to stop posting and we'll be left in a "Isn't Allardyce great" la-la world where everything is great.

I said the same about 15 pages ago, but some just don't get it.

A number of good contributors to the site have now gone, mainly due to the usual suspects taking every topic on track and not accepting other peoples points of view.

Shame really.

[Harry Balls]

How can you say it's 'clearly' not best when we're sat in tenth?

Perhaps 'clearly' wasn't the right choice of word there. But you know what I mean anyway, so there really is no need for this pedantry.

Simply wrong, as recent history (the last couple of seasons) has proven. Or you could argue we have very few 'on days'.

So are you saying that we look like a more effective football team when we're playing hoofball?

[LeChuck]

Perhaps 'clearly' wasn't the right choice of word there. But you know what I mean anyway, so there really is no need for this pedantry.

I didn't intend to be pedantic. I just don't understand how you can complain about the system not working with such certainty. If we'd just scraped to survival I could understand, but it obviously works to some extent if it has got us into tenth place.

[waggy]

Yesterday was Sam's style, if you didn't enjoy it you need your head seeing to.

well i'm glad i was half cut,30% of the play says it all,them 2 lads who were asleep had the best ides,gat lashed and sleep through the game,lard@rse out

[Amo]

When we play hoofball, we look awful. When we keep the ball on the floor, we look like a proper football team and would give the best in this division a run for their money on our day.

What frustrates me (and I guess most of the other naysayers on here) is that if we can see this, then why can't Sam? Why is playing football always a last resort?

A good manager should always pick the system that fits the players and not the other way around. Nobody's demanding that we play like Barcelona, but the usual one-dimensional tactics clearly aren't what's best for this team.

I would say that we're a much better team when we mix our play around. I can accept that we play the long ball game, but what frustrates me is when it's calling out for someone to put their foot on the ball but we'll choose to lump it forward anyway. It looks sloppy, concedes possession, and kills any tempo for the players to get forward. Hopefully, next season with some new blood we'll be able to refine our way of playing.

[Gav]

them 2 lads who were asleep had the best ides,gat lashed and sleep through the game,lard@rse out

Exactly!

[Blackburn Ender]

Another good result from Sam & the team yesterday. Three draws and a win from our home games -v- the old top four.

If we can keep the team largely as it is with the backbone of Robinson, Samba & Jones, Nzonzi and Kalinic up front, we will be fine.

Add in something extra in midfield and in attack and it would look even better.

Salgado, Nelson, Olssen and Givet offer considerable support to the spine. Salgado has proved to be the real deal, while Givet is my personal player of the season.

I would, however, not be at all surprised to see at least one, maybe two or three, of our better players leave. We will take big & silly money for the likes of Samba and Nzonzi. That's life at Ewood these days, but it's what'll keep us in the 1st Division and season tickets £150.

Given the players who have come in or through the ranks, we can trust Sam to know what he's doing.

And, next season, nobody in top six or seven will be looking forward to visiting Ewood Park. That's the way it should be.

One point on the way we play:

Yes, I'd prefer two strikers, but if these are the tactics most of the other teams play, then I can see how we have to do likewise. If we don't, we are a man short elsewhere on the pitch.

I'd also prefer less hoofball, but maybe that will get less and less as the players grow in confidence and the team improves.

Stability at all levels of the club is the only way to achieve this, short of Jack Walker MkII walking in the door.

[Harry Balls]

I didn't intend to be pedantic. I just don't understand how you can complain about the system not working with such certainty. If we'd just scraped to survival I could understand, but it obviously works to some extent if it has got us into tenth place.

Agreed, it does work to an extent. But, in my opinion, we look like a more effective football team when we mix it up a bit. Yesterday being the case in point; in the first half, where we played predominantly long-ball stuff, we created very little in terms of clear cut goal scoring opportunities. However, in the second half by passing it around a bit more, we created three one-on-one chances (Pedersen x2 and Olsson x1).

Even from a defensive perspective, I don't think strict long ball tactics really work that well for us since us since all we end up doing is giving the ball back to the opposition very quickly and inviting further attacks.

Anyway, I guess these are all things that have been said dozens of times before so I won't bore you any longer.

[47er]

well i'm glad i was half cut,30% of the play says it all,them 2 lads who were asleep had the best ides,gat lashed and sleep through the game,lard@rse out

Arsenal are by far the team with the most passes this season. Stoke are easily the club with the least-----not Rovers.However effective possession its not.

Idiot without a village.

[Gav]

Hopefully, next season with some new blood we'll be able to refine our way of playing.

I think that could be the key here, and I've no problem with his dealings in the transfer market, I think he's done extremely well so far.

Fingers crossed.

[gumboots]

People defending Allardyce's style of play do themselves no favours with this kind of over-aggressive defend-at-all-costs mentality.

I didn't see the game yesterday, but to suggest that someone who doesn't like watching aerial bombardments has a screw loose is not on in my book.

Some people are pro-Allardyce, some people aren't. It seems the anti-camp is more tolerant of opposing views than the pro-camp, which feels the need to bitch-slap every single post which could be construed as negative. It's tiresome, boring and annoying.

If people keep up with this nonsense, people are going to stop posting and we'll be left in a "Isn't Allardyce great" la-la world where everything is great.

What about a large number of us who are neither pro nor anti in terms of his style and the football we play. I'd like to see more pass and move style if we had the players to do it; I love it when we mix the worst kind of hoofball with the best passing we are capable of and all points in between. Sometimes direct play is the only thing we can do. Yesterday we earned the right to play our football as a previous manager used to say, and then we showed far more of what we can do. The midfield actually got up in support of Roberts and were then through several times in shooting positions. That's how it's supposed to work and having got it right this time, I'm really sorry we have only one game left to see if we can play that kind of game more often. I still don't like our manager in that all the things I felt unlikeable in the man are still there, but as a manager he deserves far more credit than many are prepared to give him.

[Harry Balls]

"Looking like" and "is" are two very different things, though. I'd agree that it looks really good when we pass and pretty hopeless when we play the long ball but I can also see that Sam's tactics have been very effective. I'll not drone on about our league position but, come on, you can't back yourself up by talking about effective football when we are where we are.

I guess my problem is that I'm too much of a dreamer. Of course, looking at the table alone would suggest that we've had a decent season. But then I start to wonder about what could have been had we been a bit more adventurous against the likes of Portsmouth and Wolves.

Anyway, enough woulda, coulda, shoulda's from me. We've done well this year and hopefully we can end the season on a high with a top half finish.

[Neil Weaver]

So are you saying that we look like a more effective football team when we're playing hoofball?

Nope, as others have said though, in my view it's a question of mixing things up. Playing 100% pretty stuff will see us in a relegation scrap cos we don't have the players ( = money) to do that. Long ball tactics aren't much fun to watch (really putting my neck on the block there!) but mean we have a fighting chance against the better sides.

As gumboots just said, I'd agree it's about earning the right to play as you'd like to see.

Anyway we've all discussed this hundreds of times before, not a lot of point covering it all (yet) again.

[Kelbo]

I do agree about the mixing bit but I have been analysing the styles of play of many prem sides and indeed some of the foreign sides, there are so many top sides who believe one up top to be the system.

Coaching does go in cycles, Ramsey played with no wingers, people hated it but it won us the World Cup, we have to be a bit realistic and understand that as a manager, his role is to get results or do we say, yes, we got relegated but didnt we play pretty football.

We have at Rovers to look at the whole picture as a business, we have to survive, each place in the league table is worth £750,000 that is some money to a club like ours.

We can go on about fancy names who could have managed Rovers, Dalglish was a one off and he had money as well but over the years the solid managers were the ones who we hadnt heard much of, Jim Smith had rovers playing great attacking football, but he had the personel in Bailey and Hird bombing on from full back, when they were sold, it was back to the not so good football for a while.

My conclusion is we have probably the best manager we could have for a club in our situation,

OK maybe its not too pretty but I am definately seeing signs 'mixing' things a bit, again though, it does depend on the personel, Dunny is the key at the moment but without him can we play that way?

Well done big Sam.

[The Rover of Finland]

We will probably be 11th this season and that´s a good job by Sam. Fulham or Stoke will pass us tomorrow but they won´t get any points more on final day. Sunderland can´t beat Wolves away and that´s enough for 11th place. Hard to see us get anything from Villa either.

Sam has told he wants fire power and that is the thing we lack most. I really would like us to gor for one midfielder with pace also. We defend well and our tactics seem to be effective. Not beautiful but it´s the result that matters. But we can´t do counter-attacks because there is no pace enough. Olsson is only with quick feet. Counter-attacks and better free kicks and corners could mean few places higher on the table.

Selling deadwood is one main thing to do. Pascal would be my first to go.

[thenodrog]

I do agree about the mixing bit but I have been analysing the styles of play of many prem sides and indeed some of the foreign sides, there are so many top sides who believe one up top to be the system.

Coaching does go in cycles, Ramsey played with no wingers, people hated it but it won us the World Cup, we have to be a bit realistic and understand that as a manager, his role is to get results or do we say, yes, we got relegated but didnt we play pretty football.

We have at Rovers to look at the whole picture as a business, we have to survive, each place in the league table is worth £750,000 that is some money to a club like ours.

We can go on about fancy names who could have managed Rovers, Dalglish was a one off and he had money as well but over the years the solid managers were the ones who we hadnt heard much of, Jim Smith had rovers playing great attacking football, but he had the personel in Bailey and Hird bombing on from full back, when they were sold, it was back to the not so good football for a while.

My conclusion is we have probably the best manager we could have for a club in our situation,

OK maybe its not too pretty but I am definately seeing signs 'mixing' things a bit, again though, it does depend on the personel, Dunny is the key at the moment but without him can we play that way?

Well done big Sam.

Don't dispel the media myth. Cloggers / anti football / dirty northern bastrads / hoofball etc etc. It's brilliant! We are lucky to have a proven top half manager and one who no Chairman of a big club would likely poach from us for fear of some stupid media inspired backlash from the fans.

Our very own 'self preservation society'.

......... Hard to see us get anything from Villa either.

I rarely make predictions but I wouldn't be at all suprised if we won there. We are overdue beating Villa and it's a good time to play them. They have fallen away and will be rather deflated like Arsenal. Rovers on the other hand seem to be enjoying playing at the moment which is always a good sign. Granted we've a poor away record but their home form is fairly weak, they've won more away games than homes. Also there is some speculation about whether it might be O'Neill's last match in charge or not.

[Exiled_Rover]

Villa are set up to play as the away team. That's why they're better away from home.

[joey_big_nose]

I was very close to wanting him out after Man City but I have to say he has turned it around nothing short of brilliantly. On balance we probably have slightly less points than we could have, some fine performances have not produced as much as they could have.

I am pleased we have adopted his high quality set pieces, and we do seem to be playing better football than we were. We also - quite against many's predictions - are going down a youthful route. I agree that the standard at the moment is rougly on par with the last season of Hughes at Rovers.

All quite remarkable when you consider that we have no attacking players at the moment anywhere near the quality of Cruz, Bellamy, McCarthy in his first season, Tugay, Bentley, Pedersen in his first couple of seasons. If we can improve the individual performances an even higher finish next year is on the cards.

[Exiled in Toronto]

It's been a season of two halves. After the Man City game, which I felt was the culmination of a series of ongoing issues, something definitely changed in the attitude of the players and we have done far better in the 2nd half of the season than I or I think anyone could have expected. It should be remembered that we had a good 2nd half to the season last year so the anomaly is why we were so poor so often in the first half of this. My own theory is that we were transitioning from what was still basically a Hughes regime 4-4-2 to Sam's preferred approach and the players either couldn't or wouldn't adapt. I don't know what was said after the City game but it definitely resulted in a sea-change in the players' attitude.

The substance versus style debate will go on forever; the fact is that some fans' expectations are completely met by points and position and others expect some entertainment to go along with that. Neither will ever change their views.

He has undoubtedly earned the right to take us on but I feel that those hoping that he will sign some playmakers will be disappointed. Why would he change? He, just like Wenger, absolutely believes that by focusing one one aspect of the game and being the best exponents of it, he has uncovered 'the secret'. He will spend most of our money on a striker as he sees that as the missing piece in his system. And, of course, he feels he still has a point to prove, which he cannot if he abandons his trademark approach, that would be proving that Newcastle's fans were right! He will no more sign another Tugay than Wenger will sing another Andy Todd.

I liked Sam's style to fishing with dynamite: it can catch a lot of fish which, if you are hungry, is all that counts. But if you enjoy fishing and believe you will not starve, you are not going to like it, especially when it doesn't net any fish. Apart from the 12 league games we have won, I can only think of 3 of the other 25 that I found even vaguely enjoyable, those being the home draws against Chelsea and Man Yoo and the away game at Sunderland. Personally, I would much prefer to see more goals from open play to brighten up the games as good sweeping moves are the stuff of memories; I think we have about 14 this season which is poor by any standards. I ahve gained the most enjoyment from seeing Olssen and Jones come through so strongly; hopefully Junior will step up next season and maybe one more will join him.

The other thing he has in his favour is the complete absence of other managers who seem likely to perform at this level. He and Woy are perhaps demonstrating that you really do need 20 years experience to be able to man-manage today's multi-millionaires.

[joey_big_nose]

He has undoubtedly earned the right to take us on but I feel that those hoping that he will sign some playmakers will be disappointed. Why would he change? He, just like Wenger, absolutely believes that by focusing one one aspect of the game and being the best exponents of it, he has uncovered 'the secret'. He will spend most of our money on a striker as he sees that as the missing piece in his system. And, of course, he feels he still has a point to prove, which he cannot if he abandons his trademark approach, that would be proving that Newcastle's fans were right! He will no more sign another Tugay than Wenger will sing another Andy Todd.

I think that is pretty unfair to man who signed Okocha, Djorkaeff, Gudjohnsen and Campo. I think it will come down to quality. If he can pick up a player like that on the cheap he will do it.

That said it doesn't seem to be top of the radar. Since we were linked to that Turkish midfielder in Jan we haven't had any connections with CMs as far as I have seen.

[Exiled in Toronto]

I think that is pretty unfair to man who signed Okocha, Djorkaeff, Gudjohnsen and Campo. I think it will come down to quality. If he can pick up a player like that on the cheap he will do it.

That said it doesn't seem to be top of the radar. Since we were linked to that Turkish midfielder in Jan we haven't had any connections with CMs as far as I have seen.

Those players are a long time ago now, as indeed is Tugay. They don't exist any more for peanuts so I can't see him blowing his centre-forward budget on a modern version.

[thenodrog]

Those players are a long time ago now, as indeed is Tugay. They don't exist any more for peanuts so I can't see him blowing his centre-forward budget on a modern version.

In fairness Basturk is a faded superstar just like Okocha, Campo and Djorkaeff and of course Salgado. It might not have come off with Basturk this season but it shows that SA still sees much value in attempting to revitalise the careers of top players and surrounding them with younger legs.

Anyway EiT you went to a lot of effort above when you could simply have owned up to being wrong and unjustly critical of Allardyce since he replaced the previous incompetent numpty.