[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[FourLaneBlue]

Some people are pro-Allardyce, some people aren't. It seems the anti-camp is more tolerant of opposing views than the pro-camp, which feels the need to bitch-slap every single post which could be construed as negative. It's tiresome, boring and annoying.

That's not the full story though, is it?

What is the actual truth is that when the team is doing well the pro-Sam brigade batter down on the opinions of the anti-Sams. However, when the team goes on a bad run the opposite takes place. The anti-Sams batter down on the pro-Sams. Swings and roundabouts.

When we start losing some games or going through another rough patch then the anti-Sams will be out in force again.

[Eddie]

I actually think the real story is that the "anti" brigade have grown tired of expressing themselves. I would probably be put into the "anti" brigade, although I think that is an overly negative term, but I can't be bothered to come on here and explain myself every day. I can understand why people are totally in the pro brigade, although I obviously disagree with them, I don't think I get the same respect in return. I would again understand that if I could produce no evidence to support my opinion, but again that isn't the case. Many of the concerns of this "anti" group have actually already shown to be totally correct. I just very rarely post on the subject now, it's all a bit boring when all you get in return is an insult.

[broadsword]

As far as I remember it, the anti-Sam's just batter Sam! Or perhaps I have a selective memory.

Even when we've won, there's been comments about the quality of football in the first half. Something that appears to have been conveniently forgotten in the dull and repetitive "anti-Sams only come out when we've lost" diatribe.

My recollection is that the anti-Sams don't go in for bitchy retorts, they only try to justify themselves when faced with asinine caricatures of their viewpoints - for example "You want decent football all the time, look what happened to West Brom!".

I think really the anti-Sams are just anti-rubbish football, which we tend to play more of when we lose. whereas the pro-Sam's seem to have a religious fervent devotion to their deity who must be defended against all godless heathens.

[AggyBlue]

You either support the club or you don't. Like it or not Sam is currently part of the club. So is Andrews for that matter.

It's fine to duscuss the merits of individuals but the fact that the same arguements are circulated over and over, in Sams case for eighteen months, is bl00dy boring.

I didn't fancy Sam, my objections are recorded on this site but I'm overjoyed at the fantastic job he's done, results wise. The possibility of finishing in the top half of the table with one game to go is a fantastic achievement considreing we are one of the poorest clubs in the division.

In short I think it's totally unfair at the critism that he gets. I also don't think we play half as much hoofball as we played earlier in the season and hopefully the second half yesterday is a sign of things to come.

[FourLaneBlue]

Even when we've won, there's been comments about the quality of football in the first half. Something that appears to have been conveniently forgotten in the dull and repetitive "anti-Sams only come out when we've lost" diatribe.

I didn't say that though. What I meant that the anti-Sams get the upper hand and come out in force when on a bad run and the pro-Sams do the opposite when we are on a bad run. There always some voices for and against whatever.

It leads to a messageboard that hasn't been that much fun to visit for quite some time. I remember when this place was more about supporting Rovers rather than arguing amongst ourselves.

[AggyBlue]

It leads to a messageboard that hasn't been that much fun to visit for quite some time. I remember when this place was more about supporting Rovers rather than arguing amongst ourselves.

Seconded.

I think we've been infiltrated by the scum from down the road.

[CrazyIvan]

I'm completely bored of the constant sniping and arguments and the 'totally right all the time' of it all. Most of the time the truth lies in the middle ground rather than in the negative camp or the positive camp.

We're a team that truly needs it's fans and for said fans to get behind the team. At the end of the day, that is what needs to happen.

[47er]

I actually think the real story is that the "anti" brigade have grown tired of expressing themselves. I would probably be put into the "anti" brigade, although I think that is an overly negative term, but I can't be bothered to come on here and explain myself every day. I can understand why people are totally in the pro brigade, although I obviously disagree with them, I don't think I get the same respect in return. I would again understand that if I could produce no evidence to support my opinion, but again that isn't the case. Many of the concerns of this "anti" group have actually already shown to be totally correct. I just very rarely post on the subject now, it's all a bit boring when all you get in return is an insult.

I lost respect for you when you said halfway through the season you would "prefer Ince,I really do". How anyone could be so bigotted as to prefer a manager who was destroying the club day by day is utterly beyond me. I've asked you to explain this several times but you have always dodged it. Not surprising if you've copped a bit on here.

[MarkBRFC71]

That's not the full story though, is it?

What is the actual truth is that when the team is doing well the pro-Sam brigade batter down on the opinions of the anti-Sams. However, when the team goes on a bad run the opposite takes place. The anti-Sams batter down on the pro-Sams. Swings and roundabouts.

When we start losing some games or going through another rough patch then the anti-Sams will be out in force again.

That's probably the case at every club?

The style of football he favours doesn't help his cause either, and probably only makes the polarisation of opinion greater.

[FourLaneBlue]

That's probably the case at every club?

Wasn't the case on this board.

Not until Ince arrived anyway. Since then, all has been a case of arguing amongst ourselves...maybe it was just that Hughes did a very special job in getting us all behind him.

[Darwen Rover]

Hughes brand of football wasn't exactly the best...

Was really down to two players that we had any creativity (bentley & Tugs) other than those two we were often dire

[Miker]

Ince instilled a fear of relegation in the fans and Sam reminded the fans of the hatred they had for him when he was managing Bolton. So it's understandable why Sam was (and in some cases, still is) having a hard time winning fans over. Still, I don't think the "positive" camp has been gushing about Sam non-stop, but rather deflecting unnecessarily criticism of the manager that was at times of epic proportions. If you want to see fans truly in a "positive" camp, then read the posts of the Liverpool supporters that still defend Benitez

[Gav]

Hughes brand of football wasn't exactly the best...

Was really down to two players that we had any creativity (bentley & Tugs) other than those two we were often dire

But under Hughes you came away from games feeling in the main that the team had given 100%, don't feel the same under Allardyce.

[unluckymorton]

But under Hughes you came away from games feeling in the main that the team had given 100%, don't feel the same under Allardyce.

I've not had that feeling often this season. I've come away from a majority of the games with the feeling that all our players put in a full shift. On the odd occasion the odd one (MGP) had not given his all but other than that you can't fault the work rate.

I think we are more of a unit now than we have been for a long time.

[Hughesy]

But under Hughes you came away from games feeling in the main that the team had given 100%, don't feel the same under Allardyce.

It was Hughes' side - he had time with them and had alot of his 'own players' in their. Sam is still building his team - of which 1 got player of the year (NZonzi), another other got players player (Givet), another got performance of Season (Jones - yes he was here, but Sam gave him his chance), another got goal of the season (Olsson - wasnt really do well until Sam came in) and finally another got young player of the year (Another of Sams - Kalinic).

Have you not? To name a few off the top of my head - Villa Away in Cup, Villa home, Chelsea home in Cup, Chelsea home in league, United home, Arsenal Home, Liverpool Home, Bolton Home, Bolton Away, Burnley Home, Burnley Away..

..remind me when the last time we beat a top 4 side was again prior to Arsenal? No good giving 100% and not getting anything.

[Manc Rover]

Totally agree with those comments...Also, we've scored some cracking goals this season (N'zonzi v Everton, Olsson at Villa and home to Hull, Dunn at Bolton, Pedersen v Wigan to name a few). Struggled to name any last season apart from Dunn's at Everton!

It was Hughes' side - he had time with them and had alot of his 'own players' in their. Sam is still building his team - of which 1 got player of the year (NZonzi), another other got players player (Givet), another got performance of Season (Jones - yes he was here, but Sam gave him his chance), another got goal of the season (Olsson - wasnt really do well until Sam came in) and finally another got young player of the year (Another of Sams - Kalinic).

Have you not? To name a few off the top of my head - Villa Away in Cup, Villa home, Chelsea home in Cup, Chelsea home in league, United home, Arsenal Home, Liverpool Home, Bolton Home, Bolton Away, Burnley Home, Burnley Away..

..remind me when the last time we beat a top 4 side was again prior to Arsenal? No good giving 100% and not getting anything.

[cn174]

No good giving 100% and not getting anything.

If you give 100% you're much more likely to get something!!

As someone who has been to far too many away games this season, a lot of our 'efforts' have been pathetic. Everton, Man City, Stoke, Arsenal, Chelsea, Fulham, Pompey, Birmingham to name some of them. I'm not expecting us to win all these games at all, but giving the opposition a bit of a game wouldn't go amiss.

[roversmum]

That has been SO annoying, Clare. We take the trouble to follow the boys and they don't even bother to TRY to play as we know they can, it really isn't acceptable. I'm expecting every effort on Sunday or I will be most upset.

Hopefully, though, Mr R and I will be at every game again next season.

[Hughesy]

If you give 100% you're much more likely to get something!!

As someone who has been to far too many away games this season, a lot of our 'efforts' have been pathetic. Everton, Man City, Stoke, Arsenal, Chelsea, Fulham, Pompey, Birmingham to name some of them. I'm not expecting us to win all these games at all, but giving the opposition a bit of a game wouldn't go amiss.

Everton, Stoke, Fulham - Pathetic yes.....Chelsea - for 48 mins we didnt do bad (I know thats not good enough)

Brum - Poor 1st 60 mins - but very unlucky to not snatch 1 point at the end with Kalinic's header cleared off the line by hitting a face.

Arsenal - for 60 mins we did very well! Had the penalty decision gone for us, it would have been a different game too!

Pompey - best team, hit the post 3 times - just wouldnt go in.

I dont disagree we have been poor in places - however I believe our results have improved as our season has gone on, and as our new look team has settled more - Salgado has now settled in, Jones has emerged, Olsson has been a revelation & Kalinic has shown promising signs...our defence now is looking more solid too - its just the creative/ finishing side that needs more building this summer.

[OscarRaven]

Now I dont like the guy and his constant pontificating and his so-called expert status in the game. I don't like his negative, pragmatic and unstylish football but....

What challanging 2009/10 targets would I have set for Sam Allardyce if I were JW:

1. Finish 13th in the Premier League (consolidation season) [stretch: top 10, bare minimum: stay up]

2. Complete player trading within budget of -£10Mio over the season [stretch: £-15M, bare minumum £-8M]

3. Reduce wage bill by £3Mio this season [stretch: £5M, Bare minimum: £2M]

4. Freshen up the squad, reduce average squad age from 28 to 26 [stretch: 25, bare minimum: keep at 28]

5. Give the fans something to cheer about.

...and what has/will he achive vs. those targets?

Now I don't like to admit it but he has done a dam good job in the circumstances. You could argue perhaps 1-4 at the expense of 5, but two derby day wins and a cup semifinal? Really?

[unluckymorton]

Now I dont like the guy and his constant pontificating and his so-called expert status in the game. I don't like his negative, pragmatic and unstylish football but....

What challanging 2009/10 targets would I have set for Sam Allardyce if I were JW:

1. Finish 13th in the Premier League (consolidation season) [stretch: top 10, bare minimum: stay up]

2. Complete player trading within budget of -£10Mio over the season [stretch: £-15M, bare minumum £-8M]

3. Reduce wage bill by £3Mio this season [stretch: £5M, Bare minimum: £2M]

4. Freshen up the squad, reduce average squad age from 28 to 26 [stretch: 25, bare minimum: keep at 28]

5. Give the fans something to cheer about.

...and what has/will he achive vs. those targets?

Now I don't like to admit it but he has done a dam good job in the circumstances. You could argue perhaps 1-4 at the expense of 5, but two derby day wins and a cup semifinal? Really?

Add to that beating Arsenal and taking points from Man Utd, Chelsea & Liverpool at home. Oh, and doing the double over Bolton. I think in his first full season he's done pretty well and more importantly after the backlash of the Eastlands game he also seemed to have learned a lesson.

We've been spoilt with managers and signings in the past, what we have now is a manager who is able to manage the club to its means without demanding to break the bank. His targets are realistic, he can pick out gems for minimal fee's and has earned the respect of the dressing room. We have paid for this by having to encounter some dire games, but I can see this slowly improving and it will hopefully continue to improve over the course of next season.

[thenodrog]

Now I dont like the guy and his constant pontificating and his so-called expert status in the game. I don't like his negative, pragmatic and unstylish football but....

Neither do the press and media but the people that hate his style of football most are the opposition! And that can only be a good thing can't it?

[thenodrog]

Last easter at Ewood he said that he wanted to form a smaller squad with less specialist players and have instead players that could play in a number of positions. To a greater or lesser extent we now have Olsson, Samba, Salgado, Givet, Chimbonda, MGP, Emerton, Hoillet, N'Zonzi and EHD who can fit into more than one position if needed.

The only real specialist players we have now are right down the spine of the team which does really need to be strong i.e. the gkeepers, Nelsen, Jones (I think), Grella and the centre forwards.

The obvious thinking imo is to be able to pay top wages to fewer players making BRFC a more desirable proposition for players and agents.

Simples eh? The outline plan has been missed by many critics on here but when slowly thought through they will see that it really does carry the stamp of an expert.

It appears Steve Bruce has been cribbing Sam's player policy..... either that of his Chairman has told him to follow suit.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/sunderland/article7119594.ece

[Kelbo]

Neither do the press and media but the people that hate his style of football most are the opposition! And that can only be a good thing can't it?

And the pundits who build Burnley up for their exciting brand of football, remind me where Burnley are??

I think that answers the question.

[gumboots]

Gets credit here http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8750_6137059,00.html