[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[Hughesy]

How can the youth success be given to Hughes? Hughes didnt progress them, he didnt play them & gave them very little chance, Sam has done and has progressed them - he's also given a massive incentive to other fringe reserve players.

Look at Olsson in the 12 months under Sam, he was average at best, now he is one of our key men.

Samba too has progressed further. Hanley & Jones have come on leaps and bounds.

We also have 1 or 2 promising players who Sam sent out on loan - Haworth, Doran, Fielding etc.

He has also added Kalinic, NZonzi & Liganzi.

[Eddie]

Well my point is that youth development isn't an immediate process. The key to youth development is thinking long-term and it takes several years to reap the rewards. You surely cannot attribute the young players coming through now to Allardyce and that is by no means a criticism of him, he simply hasn't been at the club for a long enough period to put any programs into place that could possibly change the quality of our youth system. He deserves credit for giving young players their chance in the side, but not for the fact that our youth team has quite a bit of talent in it right now. I was simply stating that the quality of our current youth team will the the result of work done a couple of years ago, so either it is down to the Hughes regime or it has simply occurred naturally and by chance (which is entirely possible).

Signing young players to go into the first team is a totally different topic and not really what we are talking about.

[Hughesy]

Some is luck id say

Phil Jones signed for us in 2002

Grant Hanley signed in 2008

Hoilett in 2002-03

[Eddie]

I totally agree with you in that respect, I don't think there are many managers out there who can actually consider themselves to be responsible for the development of a talented group of youngsters. I was simply disagreeing with any assertion that Allardyce could do just that, at least for the moment.

[thenodrog]

.... You surely cannot attribute the young players coming through now to Allardyce and that is by no means a criticism of him, he simply hasn't been at the club for a long enough period to put any programs into place that could possibly change the quality of our youth system. He deserves credit for giving young players their chance in the side, but not for the fact that our youth team has quite a bit of talent in it right now. I was simply stating that the quality of our current youth team will the the result of work done a couple of years ago, so either it is down to the Hughes regime or it has simply occurred naturally and by chance (which is entirely possible).

In fairness whilst Hughes must be credited with signing Olsson it was Allardyce who saw his potential as a left sided midfielder rather than as a full back. A very similar situation existed at Spurs with Gareth Bale.

[gumboots]

Well my point is that youth development isn't an immediate process. The key to youth development is thinking long-term and it takes several years to reap the rewards. You surely cannot attribute the young players coming through now to Allardyce and that is by no means a criticism of him, he simply hasn't been at the club for a long enough period to put any programs into place that could possibly change the quality of our youth system. He deserves credit for giving young players their chance in the side, but not for the fact that our youth team has quite a bit of talent in it right now. I was simply stating that the quality of our current youth team will the the result of work done a couple of years ago, so either it is down to the Hughes regime or it has simply occurred naturally and by chance (which is entirely possible).

Signing young players to go into the first team is a totally different topic and not really what we are talking about.

The intake of the youth team when Hughes was in charge was still affected by the time we spent in the championship. In this area young players want to go to clubs in the premier league first and foremost and there are plenty of them around. While we were in the lower league and for a few years afterwards the young players we brought to the club were to some extent the level of players we could get. This is not my theory but was explained to me by someone working in the youth set up at the club. There are academies at lower league clubs who get very good players to come to them but that is partly because although the parent club is not big, they have over a number of years built up a youth development reputation. Hughes was interested in the youth set up as eveidenced by his attendance at several of the youth games I saw at Ewood but it was obviously not his priority, for whatever reason. allardyce has not had a huge role to play in the development of our current youth squad. What he has done well is to give young players, whether from our own youth set up or those he has bought, a chacne to prove they are capable of playing at a higher level than the reserve league. He has to some extent benefited from the youngsters brought in because we are an established premier league team and will no no doubt continue to benefit from the fact that if you are good enough, he will give you a chance.

[Eddie]

I agree with everything that you have said. I wasn't talking about giving youth a chance of what effect that may have on youth development in the future, I was simply disagreeing with the fact that the current crop of youth players are a result of actions that have been taken since Allardyce has taken charge (apart from the actual stage at which they were given first team chances).

[MeanGreenMachine]

In fairness whilst Hughes must be credited with signing Olsson it was Allardyce who saw his potential as a left sided midfielder rather than as a full back. A very similar situation existed at Spurs with Gareth Bale.

It has been said on these boards that Olsson would make a far better winger than fullback, sadly it took the management a age to realise that too!

[sparkspakespoke]

Nah! I don't think so.

It's exactly the kind of thing that has very unfairly given him the image he has, it's wrong, he's clearly f*** all like him, it's like comparing apples and pears mate.

Woooosh!

[bellamy11]

Nah! I don't think so.

It's exactly the kind of thing that has very unfairly given him the image he has, it's wrong, he's clearly f*** all like him, it's like comparing apples and pears mate.

Are you confusing Mike Bassett with a real manager?

[broadsword]

I've started laughing all over again.

[Amo]

That Allardyce is a pretty cool guy, eh wins them matches and doesn't afraid of anything.

[Blue blood]

It has been said on these boards that Olsson would make a far better winger than fullback, sadly it took the management a age to realise that too!

It took all of 30 minutes of a reserve game to suss that one out, although in fairness I think he played left mid a few times for the reserves too.

I guess having an in-form followed by a time when his form was memorable Peds, didn't help his cause much, nor having Warnock (who was often fully fit) at left back.

[47er]

I agree with everything that you have said. I wasn't talking about giving youth a chance of what effect that may have on youth development in the future, I was simply disagreeing with the fact that the current crop of youth players are a result of actions that have been taken since Allardyce has taken charge (apart from the actual stage at which they were given first team chances).

So in 3 or 4 years, its hypothetically possible that we could read some positive statements from you complimenting Sam?

[Eddie]

I've posted plenty of positive comments about him, including on this thread when I have said how good it has been that he has signed young players and given young players a chance. This is simply a question of who gets the credit for the current academy bunch.

[Silencio]

who gets the credit for the current academy bunch.

The youth team coaches and then Allardyce for giving them a chance and having them play well...

[thenodrog]

The youth team coaches and then Allardyce for giving them a chance and having them play well...

Shouldn't it be that bloke we sacked? Bobby Downes?

[FourLaneBlue]

It may be the case, also, that it is easier to get into our side now than in previous years. We seem to have less dead wood than in years gone by who don't play very often. Would someone like N'Zonzi have walked so easily and so quickly into our team in previous seasons? No chance...it is only a few years since we had Tugay, Dunn and Savage all in our central midfield?

In previous years the likes of Phil Jones and Grant Hanley might have been kept out - or at least have found far more difficult to initially break into the side - due to the likes Ooijer, Henchoz and Zurab blocking their way.

The arrival of better youth players has coincided with a trimming of our squad.

[Silencio]

Shouldn't it be that bloke we sacked? Bobby Downes?

Him as well.

[Hughesy]

The arrival of better youth players has coincided with a trimming of our squad.

And so it should - local boys will keep costs down....and if they can do as good a job, if not better - then why keep an older, higher earner!

Hopefully Hoilett steps up this next season and then that will allow us to trim Dioufs wages for the next season. If Hanley & Jones continue their rise then perhaps Nelsen too will be trimmed next summer - makes sense to me!

[alexanders]

And so it should - local boys will keep costs down....and if they can do as good a job, if not better - then why keep an older, higher earner!

Hopefully Hoilett steps up this next season and then that will allow us to trim Dioufs wages for the next season. If Hanley & Jones continue their rise then perhaps Nelsen too will be trimmed next summer - makes sense to me!

Local boys will most likely also put more bums on the seats. The local supporters will feel more attached to the team with local heroes in their team.

[waggy]

his horse is running tonight HOOF IT

[67splitscreen]

Bare bummer is a none runner though.

[47er]

Bare bummer is a none runner though.

And Rear End has been scratched.

[67splitscreen]

And Rear End has been scratched.

It's so sore at the finish with a long nail,