[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[waggy]

Well done wags, a week after the FA confirm that Capello will lead England into Euro 2012.

its hard to keep up from the other side of the world sonny

[waggy]

W@ggy for Rovers ?? Or this never going to happen?

it will happen when the buffon has gone

[joey_big_nose]

I guess you can dispute what "normal" means, but the formation they used for the major part of the season was often cited as an offensive 4-4-2, which they were given fair credit for:

Butt

Lahm, Demichelis, van Buyten, Badstuber

Robben, van Bommel, Schweinsteiger, Riberý

Müller, Olic

...and yes, that is a very athletic midfield engine which we are far from being able to produce with the current squad. Yet another reason to look into the central midfield positions this summer.

Great team that. I quite fancy Bayen for the Champions league next season. Their front six and Lahm are all world class. Plus Klose on the bench. Quite frightening, look better player for player than most in Europe bar Barca, Real and maybe Chelsea.

[Majiball]

I agree that our 4-5-1, or variant, isn't a potent attacking force as we don't have the players to support.

If you think that Sam will advocate midfielders pushing on in advance of the ball being knocked forward I think you've misjudged the man. He'll never approve of that. He's not keen on players running 'beyond' the ball, from what I've seen. That, coupled with our slow midfield, will make for another season of grinding out results.

We've little pace to support and little pace over the top. The opposition can squeeze up to condense play, and we're still to slow to support the front man. It's a thankless task playing as a forward in the current system, IMHO.

Strange as it may sound I think we're desperate for a Ricardo Gardner in his prime!

The way we play means that when the frontman wins the ball he must hold it for 5-6 seconds before he has any passing option. That is a bloody hard task in the premierhship. Without a passing option for the frontman he's on a hiding to nothing and will lose possession as we saw last year. His best hope is to try and win a foul for a set-piece.

When we win the ball back the second it happens we must push a couple of men forward, instantly. We do not have a striker who can do the job that is being asked of him. Both Kalinic and Roberts have proved that they struggle with this role. Now if we don't we lose possession and are back defending.

You suggest we need quicker players, I will counter that by saying how do we get them, we have no money. So I ask the question do you try a develop a system that better suits the attributes of the players we have or try and impose one they don't?

We need to become much better with the ball in possession our over reliance on set-pieces is a serious cause for concern.

[MarkBRFC71]

Last season, Sam was getting results by stubbornly persisting with this system – presumably, if we were more flexible, you think we could have finished higher than 10th in the league?

Absolutely. West Ham at home, Stoke at home, Hull away were all easily winnable but we stuck with 4-5-1 instead of going for it. Liverpool at home, Wolves away, West Ham away were worth a gamble. Portsmouth away was perhaps the best example - sticking with 4-5-1 for way, way too long when they were down to 10 men.

That's 7 points that could easily have been doubled with a more positive outlook.

I'm not saying we should change formation willy-nilly, but there are plenty of times when we should have changed given the way the games had gone, and failed to do so.

[John]

All very well saying being positive however you still need the players who can carry the ball & create.

[sparkspakespoke]

its hard to keep up from the other side of the world sonny

Really? I guess they dont have the internet and you wrote that post and sent in over via homing pigeon?

[MarkBRFC71]

All very well saying being positive however you still need the players who can carry the ball & create.

Why? If you put 2 against 4, instead of 1 against 4 and launch it at them surely numbers suggest that something is more likely to come off in your favour?

[Hughesy]

WAGGY to stick to what he promised & run round Rishton

[CrazyIvan]

Absolutely. West Ham at home, Stoke at home, Hull away were all easily winnable but we stuck with 4-5-1 instead of going for it. Liverpool at home, Wolves away, West Ham away were worth a gamble. Portsmouth away was perhaps the best example - sticking with 4-5-1 for way, way too long when they were down to 10 men.

That's 7 points that could easily have been doubled with a more positive outlook.

I'm not saying we should change formation willy-nilly, but there are plenty of times when we should have changed given the way the games had gone, and failed to do so.

And you can tell us for definite that switching to 4-4-2 in all of these situations would have guaranteed the extra points? Are you absolutely sure?

There is way too much obsession with formation and whether we play with 2 up front or not. It's the players on the pitch that make the difference. With the players we had last season, strikers in particular, playing 4-4-2 would have guaranteed us absolutely nothing in any of those games.

[MarkBRFC71]

And you can tell us for definite that switching to 4-4-2 in all of these situations would have guaranteed the extra points? Are you absolutely sure?

There is way too much obsession with formation and whether we play with 2 up front or not. It's the players on the pitch that make the difference. With the players we had last season, strikers in particular, playing 4-4-2 would have guaranteed us absolutely nothing in any of those games.

Of course I can't guarantee it, but surely we would have increased our chances by being more positive in those games given the way they had developed?

[Roost]

it will happen when the buffon has gone

How come you are still in SA Wags?

Do you not know Ingerland are out????

[unluckymorton]

Of course I can't guarantee it, but surely we would have increased our chances by being more positive in those games given the way they had developed?

It would also have opened us up a bit.

[John]

Of course I can't guarantee it, but surely we would have increased our chances by being more positive in those games given the way they had developed?

Also would have increased our chances to concede too....

[thenodrog]

Absolutely. West Ham at home, Stoke at home, Hull away were all easily winnable but we stuck with 4-5-1 instead of going for it. Liverpool at home, Wolves away, West Ham away were worth a gamble. Portsmouth away was perhaps the best example - sticking with 4-5-1 for way, way too long when they were down to 10 men.

Alternatively MU would have won the Prem but for getting it wrong at Burnley of all places. Every team will have lost matches that they would feel they should have won and will end up looking back ruefully.

If we had gone 4-4-2 all season I'm sure that there are matches which we won or drew that we would have lost. It happens all the time and it is what makes football interesting. Whatever formation is chosen is usually 'loose' and depends what happens on the pitch and most of all is down to the quality and attitude of the players.

I must say that without particularly improving the quality of the squad the second half of last season certainly saw an improvement in attitude....... Shame waggy missed it! Not!

[MarkBRFC71]

It would also have opened us up a bit.

Possibly, but given that we were on top in those games I think it would have given us more impetus. However, I can't believe that anyone would defend the Portsmouth away tactics - truly an astonishing lack of ambition to win a game. But, there's some people on here who will defend Sam's every action and word no matter what ....

Alternatively MU would have won the Prem but for getting it wrong at Burnley of all places. Every team will have lost matches that they would feel they should have won and will end up looking back ruefully.

If we had gone 4-4-2 all season I'm sure that there are matches which we won or drew that we would have lost. It happens all the time and it is what makes football interesting. Whatever formation is chosen is usually 'loose' and depends what happens on the pitch and most of all is down to the quality and attitude of the players.

I must say that without particularly improving the quality of the squad the second half of last season certainly saw an improvement in attitude....... Shame waggy missed it! Not!

I wasn't advocating going 4-4-2 all season - but in some games BFS was far too inflexible and stuck rigidly to the 'system' when arguably we were well on top and a bit more positivity could have seen us grab 3 points.

It was slightly more entertaining toward the end of the season, but not enough to deter me from Angry Birds for more than half a game.

[thenodrog]

Possibly, but given that we were on top in those games I think it would have given us more impetus. However, I can't believe that anyone would defend the Portsmouth away tactics - truly an astonishing lack of ambition to win a game. But, there's some people on here who will defend Sam's every action and word no matter what ....

As long as we continue to exceed all reasonable expectations (as we surely have) I would think that will rightly continue. Why don't you pipe down until that situation changes and then you might find more supporters for your cause? Sooner or later it will as it always does.

[John]

I must say that without particularly improving the quality of the squad the second half of last season certainly saw an improvement in attitude....... Shame waggy missed it! Not!

I think we are forgetting how good we ended the season. Some fantastic results against some of the best teams in the league - I would be very careful to make major changes, because as it stands, things are working well.

[MarkBRFC71]

As long as we continue to exceed all reasonable expectations (as we surely have) I would think that will rightly continue. Why don't you pipe down until that situation changes and then you might find more supporters for your cause? Sooner or later it will as it always does.

So you too are saying he never gets it wrong? NEVER?

Oh, and it's a messageboard - y'know, for people to express their opinions. It's not purely for the Samettes to get together, fawn at his feet and shout down anyone who has the temerity to suggest he may not have the ability to walk on water, or he might not be the greatest English manager since Alf Ramsay.

He's done pretty well given the resources to get us to 10th, but it has been terribly dull to watch, his negativity has arguably cost us some points, and that along with his arrogance has alienated a lot of fans which I'm sure will be reflected in a dip in season ticket sales.

That might not be your opinion, but don't knock those for whom it is.

[thenodrog]

So you too are saying he never gets it wrong? NEVER?

By suggesting that you appear to be inferring that you don't ever get it wrong.

[DanLad]

The way we play means that when the frontman wins the ball he must hold it for 5-6 seconds before he has any passing option. That is a bloody hard task in the premierhship. Without a passing option for the frontman he's on a hiding to nothing and will lose possession as we saw last year. His best hope is to try and win a foul for a set-piece.

When we win the ball back the second it happens we must push a couple of men forward, instantly. We do not have a striker who can do the job that is being asked of him. Both Kalinic and Roberts have proved that they struggle with this role. Now if we don't we lose possession and are back defending.

You suggest we need quicker players, I will counter that by saying how do we get them, we have no money. So I ask the question do you try a develop a system that better suits the attributes of the players we have or try and impose one they don't?

We need to become much better with the ball in possession our over reliance on set-pieces is a serious cause for concern.

I was under the impression I was agreeing with you! What did you think I was saying?

As an aside, are you suggesting we wouldn't be better off with some quicker players?

How we go about getting quicker players is an entirely different issue which I didn't even attempt to address.

[LeChuck]

Of course I can't guarantee it, but surely we would have increased our chances by being more positive in those games given the way they had developed?

But if we kept chopping and changing formation there is guarantee we would have ground out the good results we did over the course of the season.

At the end of the day, we finished in tenth place using 4-5-1. There isn't a whole lot wrong with how we play (in terms of results), it just needs tweaking.

[MarkBRFC71]

But if we kept chopping and changing formation there is guarantee we would have ground out the good results we did over the course of the season.

At the end of the day, we finished in tenth place using 4-5-1. There isn't a whole lot wrong with how we play (in terms of results), it just needs tweaking.

I think we should be more flexible during games depending on how it's going. Fine, start with 4-5-1/4-3-3 but don't be averse to changing - I'd like to see us sometimes, at home, when we are on top, try and force the game rather than settle for the point but hope luck plays a part and we scrape 3.

A good first tweak would be Dos Santos, if we can get him to play like he did for Mexico .... probably out if our reach though. Unfortunately! However that type of player is exactly what we should be looking for. I still maintain Niko is good enough if we have the right two players out wide - Olsson should deffo be one, but the priority signing should be the right-sided player. After that, a back-up striker, a proper left back and a solid centre midfielder to play alongside N'Zonzi should be next on the list.

It's all dreaming though unless the takeover goes through or we sell Samba!

[Majiball]

I was under the impression I was agreeing with you! What did you think I was saying?

As an aside, are you suggesting we wouldn't be better off with some quicker players?

How we go about getting quicker players is an entirely different issue which I didn't even attempt to address.

If anything I took as critique of what I was saying and the viewpoint. It just didn't come across as agreement. Misunderstanding resolved.

Of course we would be better of with more pace in the side. Trouble is pace with the technical level we need is well out of our reach, the best bet we have in that area is Hoillet. I raised the point about getting them purely because you'd mentioned a Gardner type player IE quick with endurance as well, very uncommon and very expensive.

For me the problem has to be solved a different way, as stated. I do hope we develop our play more next season, as results are one thing (obviously very positive towards the end of last season) but I struggle to enjoy watching the team I support at times.

[Doaksie]

I don't know if this is a personal thing, but I rarely ENJOY watching a Rovers game anyway, and I don't mean this in reference to our current tactics, more-over I never have done. I'm a bag of nerves and energy before and during every single game of every season, and ENDURE would be a better word to describe my experience. Of course I enjoy plenty of other football matches, just very rarely Blackburn (with exceptions like putting 5 past the Dingles of course and 80 minutes on the clock!). As a result, I'm not bothered, to a certain extent, how the Rovers play, as long as we win the match in question. Result would always conquer over substance for me, and in that respect I think that Big Sam is the ideal manager for us in our current situation.