[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[Amo]

Topman- did you really say pl has not changed that much?we now have Sunderland and man city bought by billionaires and spending vast amounts, stoke being funded by a wealthy owner, as well as villa, thats FOUR teams who are our rivals for places, all teams in the league now spend more money than us that is an actual truth, a fact.

Sunderland and Stoke finished below us last season, so you could easily swap those two for the likes of Newcastle and Middlesbrough of five years ago. Most teams in this league spend more money than us, but over the years we've defied the critics to punch 'above our weight'.

And as has been described above Sam is working under much tougher budget constraints. Yes RSC, McCarthy and Bellamy were great buys but Sam doesn't even have the chance to spend that much on a striker now.

Kalinic cost more than any one of them.

[RevidgeBlue]

The numbers you use are wrong, simply wrong! When hughes signed savage for 3.5 million who did he sell to fund it? 2.5 million benni, 3 million roberts, 1.5 million bentley? Bellamy 4 million?

Ferguson.

And Roberts wasn't 3.5m more like 1.5m, and the 2m profit made on Bellamy more or less paid for McCarthy. So don't make out like Hughes had lots of money to spend, he had essentially a nil net transfer budget.

Admittedly it wasn't minus 16m like Allardyce had to contend with last summer.

[thenodrog]

We were a good team when we had Savage,Bentley and Tugay and at least one decent striker,whether it be Bellamy,Benni or Santa Cruz, the last 2 of whom got us through 1 season each.All have gone, none has effectively been replaced because the manager hasn't had the funds. To finish tenth last year was a miracle which I'm not confident will be repeated in the near future. To blame the manager for any of this is simply churlish and born of prejudice.

It's pathetic. How many roundly criticised SA's tactics last year and haven't had the guts to come on here to hold their hands up and admit that his tactics were sound and that they were wrong?

If as you say the playing squad is not as talented as it was a couple of years ago then the tactics obviously must be sounder. We cannot match the funding of the majority of the other teams in the Prem and we cannot be expected to go toe to toe on that front but we can certainly build our game around digging in and stopping them playing in there favoured style. How difficult can that be to grasp?

Just as an aside I don't suppose there are too many that will remember Ali's 'Rumble in the Jungle' with the then unbeatable George Foreman? Ali had been the best heavyweight boxer that the world had ever seen but he was old and his powers were fading and all he did with the much younger Foreman was cover up and clinch and all manner of spoiling tactics until Foreman punched himself to the point of exhaustion in the heat of the jungle and Ali finally opened up and finished him off against all the odds. 'Rope a dope' tactics Ali called them as he was holding the Heavyweight belt aloft after the fight.

[tony gale's mic]

Kalinic cost more than any one of them.

Kalinic cost minus £11 million.

Sunderland and Stoke finished below us last season, so you could easily swap those two for the likes of Newcastle and Middlesbrough of five years ago. Most teams in this league spend more money than us, but over the years we've defied the critics to punch 'above our weight'.

That's because we've had good managers.

[thenodrog]

As a footballer I was reasonably quick and not very strong, so when I played against a strong player I initially tried to battle with him, I lost. Eventually I figured out that I had other strengths that when used correctly I could beat him. The point I'm trying to make is that there is more than one way to play the game and as opposed to trying to play it the money way Rovers must play it another. We will never progress if we try and play the game a way we can never win. Knock 10% of the wage budget, invest in the youth set-up and back-room team, employing the best people we can lay our hands on and looking long term as opposed to our current model.

Really? I was strong but not that quick.... well maybe quickish but only in a straight line.

Anyway you've just described the perfect way forward ...... for a club in the lower divisions.

This is the Prem ffs Maj. Money doesn't talk it screams! Personally in the situation we've been in these past few years I'd bin the youth teams..... although no doubt this new ruling will make youth teamers more sought after.

[imy9]

Ferguson.

And Roberts wasn't 3.5m more like 1.5m, and the 2m profit made on Bellamy more or less paid for McCarthy. So don't make out like Hughes had lots of money to spend, he had essentially a nil net transfer budget.

Admittedly it wasn't minus 16m like Allardyce had to contend with last summer.

Ferguson moved for 4.5 million Hughes spent 5 million on bellamy. Sold Bellamy for 6.5 million and bought Mccarthy for 2.5 million and Roberts for 3 million- undisclosed but widely reported as this. So Hughes had his entire expenditure to spend plus others like Bentley, Zurab, Rigters etc all cost money, Sam has -16 million deficit, how would Hughes have coped with this? Well we would not have signed any of our top strikers bar mccarthy.

Topman- you cant trade like for like Newcastle and Boro with Sunderland and Man City! firstly they are owned by millionaires not billionaires secondly they could not buy themselves out of trouble, city and sunderland can.

[MarkBRFC71]

You think if Rovers were playing against a park team they'd employ similar tactics? No, they'd doubtless pass the ball around a lot more as they'd be able to beat the park team on possession, creativity and skill. The park team would probably prefer they play the long ball stuff. However, when coming up against teams who have had much more money pumped into them and so have been able to get players with more skill and creativity, they know they can out pass Rovers, but it's the long ball stuff they'd have more problems dealing with. So that's why Sam uses those tactics and that's why it's proved successful.

So why did we use the long ball against Stoke, Portsmouth, Hull, etc? Shouldn't we have at least been a match for them quality-wise?

[MarkBRFC71]

Ferguson moved for 4.5 million Hughes spent 5 million on bellamy. Sold Bellamy for 6.5 million and bought Mccarthy for 2.5 million and Roberts for 3 million- undisclosed but widely reported as this. So Hughes had his entire expenditure to spend plus others like Bentley, Zurab, Rigters etc all cost money, Sam has -16 million deficit, how would Hughes have coped with this? Well we would not have signed any of our top strikers bar mccarthy.

Bellamy was nowhere near £5m, and Roberts was nothing like £3m.

And to say Sam has had minus £16m is twisting the facts to suit your argument - irrespective of what came in last season, BFS still spent £12m .... and how much of that wisely? N'Zonzi - yes, Givet - yes, Chimbonda - no (given that we now have 3 rightbacks and Chimbo was good for only 4 months), Niko - still not sure either way.

[braddock]

To try and imply that I don't support my team 'through thick and thin' as I prioritise results is a very strange argument.

My first season we nearly went down to the third division, it was crap, no misty eyed nostaliga from me.

I want the very best for Blackburn Rovers, I want us in the top league. How do you achieve that? By winning football matches!

at which point did i say you didn't support your club?

i just said we looked at things differently, which we do

[tony gale's mic]

So why did we use the long ball against Stoke, Portsmouth, Hull, etc? Shouldn't we have at least been a match for them quality-wise?

Because once we're set up to play a certain way it makes more sense to go with it than to chop and change the system and our style of play between games. Besides they're sides which play similarish football to us, but as the table shows, we're considerably better at it than they are. And if something gets you results then it makes sense to use it.

[imy9]

Bellamy was nowhere near £5m, and Roberts was nothing like £3m.

And to say Sam has had minus £16m is twisting the facts to suit your argument - irrespective of what came in last season, BFS still spent £12m .... and how much of that wisely? N'Zonzi - yes, Givet - yes, Chimbonda - no (given that we now have 3 rightbacks and Chimbo was good for only 4 months), Niko - still not sure either way.

so how much did Bellamy cost a mars bar and a bag of crisps? A link would be nice, check his wiki. Roberts was widely said to have cost 3 million- a link to prove otherwise?

Twisting facts? Used a fact to support a simple statement, Sam has not had the financial backing of other managers.

[Kelbo]

Really? I was strong but not that quick.... well maybe quickish but only in a straight line.

Anyway you've just described the perfect way forward ...... for a club in the lower divisions.

This is the Prem ffs Maj. Money doesn't talk it screams! Personally in the situation we've been in these past few years I'd bin the youth teams..... although no doubt this new ruling will make youth teamers more sought after.

Bin youth teams, Why?

It simply has to be the way forward, not just with Rovers but all prem clubs.

Ajax, Barca, Everton etc cant be wrong, Man U are looking closely at the youth now, we gave not given the lads opportunity at the right times, indeed, Hughes never gave youth a chance at all!!

Man city produced a few and they were decent, only to be eased out with all the signings.

Majiball is correct, you get the better young lads and coach them well, to rid yourself of a Youth Team would be unforgivable.

PS: Sturridge, Richards, Johnson, Ireland would walk into many prem sides!!

[Commondore]

It's pathetic. How many roundly criticised SA's tactics last year and haven't had the guts to come on here to hold their hands up and admit that his tactics were sound and that they were wrong?

If as you say the playing squad is not as talented as it was a couple of years ago then the tactics obviously must be sounder. We cannot match the funding of the majority of the other teams in the Prem and we cannot be expected to go toe to toe on that front but we can certainly build our game around digging in and stopping them playing in there favoured style. How difficult can that be to grasp?

If the Sam Allardyce style of football is the only way forward for smaller clubs, how come only we and to a lesser extent Stoke use it in the Premier League today? Are Allardyce and Pulis the lone masterminds of English football?

[AggyBlue]

If the Sam Allardyce style of football is the only way forward for smaller clubs, how come only we and to a lesser extent Stoke use it in the Premier League today? Are Allardyce and Pulis the lone masterminds of English football?

No, the last two prehistoric remnants of the 'old school'

[John]

Kalinic cost minus £11 million.

That's because we've had good managers.

That's the key for me - in recent years, under Sparky and now Sam we've had top class managers, hence why we have done so well.

Hughes record in the transfer market with was remarkable and Sam, firstly saving us from relegation, then finishing 10th was an excellent achievement.

IMO there are not many decent managers around, certainly not ones who would come to us.

[tony gale's mic]

If the Sam Allardyce style of football is the only way forward for smaller clubs, how come only we and to a lesser extent Stoke use it in the Premier League today? Are Allardyce and Pulis the lone masterminds of English football?

It's not the only way forward. When you have limited resources when we have you have to pick the best players available to you for a small price. In the past we've been lucky enough that those best players have been creative/pacey ones that we've bought (Tugay, Bellamy, Bentley) or come up through our ranks (Duff). I'm not counting the likes of RSC and McCarthy in this as they're players whose job and role is to put the ball in the net no matter how it gets to them. Bellamy was usually more involved in the build up than either of those players were. We played reasonably good football with those players in the side.

However the current set of bargain buys in our team haven't been creative or pacey players but the likes of Givet, N'Zonzi, Samba who do a wonderful job but don't lend themselves to great football. How many pacey/creative players are there in our team? Is it Sam's fault there aren't many? His job is to buy the most effective players on the market for the money he's been given.

If you look at us and Stoke we've arguably been the most successful clubs operating on our sort of budget in the league these last few years. Prior to that it was Rovers and Bolton, managed by Sam Allardyce of course. However it's worth noting that Bolton often played better football than we do now, partly because Sam was lucky enough to find Jay Jay Okocha on the market who provided creativity for them like Tugay did for us.

Sam's way might not be the only way but if you're on a budget and bereft of pace and creativity in your side it's sure as hell the most effective way, as his record shows.

[Bobby G]

No question that Sam's got a big season ahead of him. It certainly was no miracle to finish 10th but it was punching above where we should have finished considering the spending by some other sides.

I would have loved a couple of decent signings to be able to push for 8th or so and have an outside chance for European football. But currently we should be very happy if he gets us to where we finished last season. Hopefully he can get big seasons out of Kalinic, Dunn, Pedersen & Hoilett.

[Stuart]

No question that Sam's got a big season ahead of him. It certainly was no miracle to finish 10th but it was punching above where we should have finished considering the spending by some other sides.

I would have loved a couple of decent signings to be able to push for 8th or so and have an outside chance for European football. But currently we should be very happy if he gets us to where we finished last season. Hopefully he can get big seasons out of Kalinic, Dunn, Pedersen & Hoilett.

Am I being overly pessimistic to think that I'm hoping we finish 17th?? (Given our personnel - particularly lack of forwards/quality midfielders).

[LeChuck]

If the Sam Allardyce style of football is the only way forward for smaller clubs, how come only we and to a lesser extent Stoke use it in the Premier League today? Are Allardyce and Pulis the lone masterminds of English football?

What a daft comment.

When Sam was touted for the England job before McClaren, he answered concerns about his style of play relating to the England team. He said he uses the tactics which gets the best results out of the players you have, implying that he would play more 'football' if he had top players. Pulis does the same as Sam, he plays a style of football which gets the best results out of his players. Given the relatively excellent league positions of both clubs last year, it's seem odd that you have picked their names out.

We have a ###### midfield so we don't pass the ball around in it much - makes perfect sense. If we had a talented midfield we'd see a different style of play. Many other teams use variations of the tactics we use. Villa play a very direct game with big men up front. Everton too.

If Sam wasn't producing the results then you could question the wisdom of his tactics, but at present they're doing the job. I don't think anyone will argue that they're pretty, but it works.

[1864roverite]

this punching above our weight argument is getting me down now. Rovers finished 10th on merit alone. Team work and luck played its part along the way with some good football and some bad football thrown in.

If a couple of results had gone for us then Rovers could easily have finished in 8th spot.

Give the club a little credit where its due.

[tony gale's mic]

this punching above our weight argument is getting me down now. Rovers finished 10th on merit alone. Team work and luck played its part along the way with some good football and some bad football thrown in.

If a couple of results had gone for us then Rovers could easily have finished in 8th spot.

Give the club a little credit where its due.

And if a couple of results had gone against us we could have much more easily finished 12th/13th.

We are giving the club credit when we say that, when we say we're punching above our weight it's in relation to the finances we have to spend and various other things (eg location).

[Bobby G]

I'm basing my statement on punching above weight simply on spending, nothing else.

[Mattyblue]

No, the last two prehistoric remnants of the 'old school'

What's 'prehistoric' about him?

Like 442 you mean? Oh no, that's the way forward for our all knowing fanbase.

Allardyce is a pragmatist, he's getting the most out of a limited squad.

Post the Man City debacle there was a marked improvement, we beat some quality sides and finished strongly, but I have realised there is and will always be an entrenched anti-Sam camp, fair enough, but a lot seem totally blind to the job he's done.

[Fife Rover]

What's 'prehistoric' about him?

Like 442 you mean? Oh no, that's the way forward for our all knowing fanbase.

Allardyce is a pragmatist, he's getting the most out of a limited squad.

Post the Man City debacle there was a marked improvement, we beat some quality sides and finished strongly, but I have realised there is and will always be an entrenched anti-Sam camp, fair enough, but a lot seem totally blind to the job he's done.

You know what they say Matty: "there's none so blind as those that don't wish to see".

[thenodrog]

However it's worth noting that Bolton often played better football than we do now, partly because Sam was lucky enough to find Jay Jay Okocha on the market who provided creativity for them like Tugay did for us.

Not sure about that. imo the biggest influence on the team and style of play was Ivan Campo.