[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[BPF]

Can't shake the feeling that something odd is going on...

I feel like in three years from now, Sam will be only spoken about in a rather negative way by Rovers fans...

[92er]

The last time O'Neill worked on a limited budget was 10 years ago at Leicester. What Sam has achieved on a limited budget over this many seasons at different clubs far outstrips what MON did at Leicester.

And given he spent £120 million at Villa to recoup less than a third of that, I don't think we should be wanting him at Ewood.

I'm not an O'Neill admirer, but what struck me about him at Leicester was that, like Allardyce at Bolton, he was able to keep them in the premier league much longer than their predecessors.

I don't know how much MON spent, but I would have thought he had a pretty good record and am I correct in remembering they got to a couple of finals?

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Martin O'Neill?

[Fife Rover]

Must be a Rishton thing.

Dammit Theno you just beat me to it!

[ABBEY]

Duncy dingle ....smoss rattled a few lower league triumphs off and he's all hail hail...so what ffs ..we are rovers - europe we have been there ...champions league been there too when it was champs only ( I think) zzzzzzam show me your cl medal ooops thought not...I have more medals than the fat Bolton slug..GB champ..represented GB and England ..zzzzams won nowt but lower league crap..hoof negative loud mouthed bull wins exactly what he has won has a player and manager...ZERO

KING KENNY AND SOUEY did.

[Steve Moss]

Duncy dingle ....smoss rattled a few lower league triumphs off and he's all hail hail...so what ffs ..we are rovers - europe we have been there ...champions league been there too when it was champs only ( I think) zzzzzzam show me your cl medal ooops thought not...I have more medals than the fat Bolton slug..GB champ..represented GB and England ..zzzzams won nowt but lower league crap..hoof negative loud mouthed bull wins exactly what he has won has a player and manager...ZERO

KING KENNY AND SOUEY did.

When I pointed out the lower league triumps, I was also clear that they were modest in the scheme of things. On the other hand, incompetents don't generally score even lower league triumphs.

And as another poster pointed out, Sam has taken town clubs, like Bolton and made them contenders. He's on track for doing the same with the Rovers. A top ten finish on a negative transfer budget is nothing to sneer at. And if anything the Rovers are playing better than last year, the second half of the Bolton game aside.

And comparatively speaking, has Sam had the financial resources of "King" Kenny and Souey? I doubt it. So a comparison of medal counts is somewhat unfair. Under your theory, all glory to Xerxes cause he won the battle and never mind those punk 300 Spartans, what did they every win.

[Miker]

I would argue that his record with Newcastle was far from poor as well. Never understood why his time at Newcastle has always been pointed out as a "failure". After he left they went on to suffer some horrific losses, culminating in relegation the following season. While he was there, they only had a few poor results, the worst probably being the loss to Derby and he left them in 11th place.

[trueblue]

Abbey.... are you sure you aren't Waggy in disguise??

[koi]

The way I look at it, Sam knows how to win Premier League matches. The problem us it's rarely pretty.

I think he needs to let the team know his secret then!

Replacing Sam would be virtually impossible at the present time - as much as that sticks in my throat. In the future who knows, but I seriously wouldn't rule out McLaren...

[S15]

Duncy dingle ....smoss rattled a few lower league triumphs off and he's all hail hail...so what ffs ..we are rovers - europe we have been there ...champions league been there too when it was champs only ( I think) zzzzzzam show me your cl medal ooops thought not...I have more medals than the fat Bolton slug..GB champ..represented GB and England ..zzzzams won nowt but lower league crap..hoof negative loud mouthed bull wins exactly what he has won has a player and manager...ZERO

KING KENNY AND SOUEY did.

You'd be a great Newcastle fan. Actually you'd even be cringeworthy by their standards, but just as illiterate.

[Iceman]

i think Sam should shut the (Please don't use that word again) up now. im Pro Sam, but enough is enough now.

[47er]

..I have more medals than the fat Bolton slug...

Good old Abbey--still exercising those hard-won freedoms that our forebears fought and died for!

[duffbear]

I am not advocating getting rid of Allarydyce but if the takeover did go through could Dalglish be tempted to return and see if he can repeat his previous success here?

[cn174]

I am not advocating getting rid of Allarydyce but if the takeover did go through could Dalglish be tempted to return and see if he can repeat his previous success here?

I would think it'd be unlikely. See When Dalglish stepped down thread.

[Guest bluerovers]

I am not advocating getting rid of Allarydyce but if the takeover did go through could Dalglish be tempted to return and see if he can repeat his previous success here?

Kenny has got a pretty safe job at his "boyhood club" being their ambassador so I don't think he'd leave Liverpool.

[thenodrog]

And comparatively speaking, has Sam had the financial resources of "King" Kenny and Souey? I doubt it. So a comparison of medal counts is somewhat unfair.

Correct...... Also re: Souness.....we were in the bottom three Souness was about to be sacked and when he left for the Mags he left an absolute car crash of a squad behind him. As he did at Liverpool in fact, and any scouser over 40 will vouch for that. Souness's managerial record is nowhere near as good as Allardyces. If it was he'd still be managing in the Prem.

Must be something wrong with my memory..... it's nowhere near selective enough for this board.

[jodrell]

Kenny has got a pretty safe job at his "boyhood club" being their ambassador so I don't think he'd leave Liverpool.

I think you have got your teams wrong? He was a Rangers fan as a boy and signed for Celtic then went to Liverpool.However most footballers now are fans of the team they are signing for.

His signing, on a provisional contract in May 1967, was not without amusement. Jock Stein, the legendary Celtic manager, sent his assistant Sean Fallon to see Dalglish and his parents at their home. Hearing that Fallon was at the door, Dalglish raced to his bedroom and frantically tore down the Rangers posters on his bedroom walls.

[thenodrog]

Abbey.... are you sure you aren't Waggy in disguise??

Leave abbey alone for a few minutes trueblue ....... whilst he googles Xerxes!

Don't worry abbey... you aren't alone.

[47er]

Correct...... Also re: Souness.....we were in the bottom three Souness was about to be sacked and when he left for the Mags he left an absolute car crash of a squad behind him. As he did at Liverpool in fact, and any scouser over 40 will vouch for that. Souness's managerial record is nowhere near as good as Allardyces. If it was he'd still be managing in the Prem.

Must be something wrong with my memory..... it's nowhere near selective enough for this board.

Furthermore Souness was always going on about us being a "little club". He even did it in the post-match interview when we won the League Cup! His attitude to Europe was infamous--it was a distraction from getting 40 points in the Premiership. But he can do no wrong in some eyes and Allardyce can do no right.

[thenodrog]

His attitude to Europe was infamous--it was a distraction from getting 40 points in the Premiership.

That part of Souness's tenure p1ssed me off more than anything! We have never been in Europe and have spent years watching other clubs play there plus we were representing English football, yet Billy Big Time Souness treat the UEFA Cup with absolute disdain.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

That part of Souness's tenure p1ssed me off more than anything! We have never been in Europe and have spent years watching other clubs play there plus we were representing English football, yet Billy Big Time Souness treat the UEFA Cup with absolute disdain.

Something we agree on. Some of the football we played under Souness was a joy to watch though.

Not something you can really say about our, admittedly, very effective manager.

[Mattyblue]

Something we agree on. Some of the football we played under Souness was a joy to watch though.

Not something you can really say about our, admittedly, very effective manager.

The first 3 years under Souness.

Tle final season and a bit he completely lost the plot in signings, team selection, motivation, player relations, the bloody lot!

[Hughesy]

Abbey.... are you sure you aren't Waggy in disguise??

Iv often thought that same thing...same views, same Zzzzzam talk, use of capitals etc.

As for talking about Souness & Daglish winning things - did they do it with a negative transfer budget???

[Paul]

While I'm no fan of the football Sam Allardyce presents on a Saturday afternoon I can have sympathy with the argument he did well to keep us in the PL and to finish tenth last season given the squad we have available. We don't have a great squad and clearly are lacking any real creative ability or an exciting bums on (or off) seats player so I suppose to an extent we get what the players can give us. The problem with this view is there have been games when, for 45 minutes at least, this hasn't been true and we have played some good, exciting football. Sadly this isn't often and I find the trip to Ewood less and less interesting, you pretty much know what's going to happen.

Over the last few days things have occurred which I feel deserve a different slant or view point. Initially I wasn't going to post these thoughts because I know the reaction and where it will come from. Anyway lets examine a few things.

The manager has been making quite extraordinary statements to the media. A few months ago I'd have had something to say on these but for me it's just a shrug of the shoulders and an acceptance this is what you get with Allardyce. He clearly thinks he's wonderful, it's true he does achieve within the limitations put on him, but the idea of him managing Real Madrid or England is, for me, amusing to say the least. Clearly he's never had the opportunity but Sam's problem is all the evidence is stacked against him and no one is likely to give him the chance.

After catching Rovers on MOTD I began to put together a few things - the MOTD analysis, Phil Jones on Radio Rovers, Sam's views on the Fulham game in various media:

MOTD clearly demonstrated EHD playing the goalkeeper and not the ball. I couldn't see this at Ewood but it was very clear on the TV. Prior to MOTD I thought he was simply having a slippery afternoon! Hughes obviously wanted a foul.

Schwarzer made an attempt to stop the ball with his right hand, reportedly from outside the area, IMV at the very most it touched the tips of two fingers and may well have been very, very difficult for the referee to see. Sam feels he should have been sent off so this evens things up with regard to the goal. Isn't this just trying to get away with what you can?

Sam complains he doesn't understand why the team always drop back and play too deep after taking the lead.

Phil Jones on RR said words on the line of, (in reaction to Rovers goal) "we're professionals and have to try to get away with everything we can." He also went on to talk about how the team hadn't been playing to their best etc. After the interview the presenters praised him for his honesty. Now I'm sure they were referring to his comments on the team because they couldn't really be referring to his effective acknowledgement that the manager's instructions to EHD were to target the goalkeeper, with or without the ball. BTW this is not having a pop at Jones.

I'm trying to get all this clear in my mind. The manager claims to be good enough for Real Madrid etc. Claims he doesn't comprehend why the team drop back when leading, complains Schwarzer should have been sent off while having clearly sent one of his players on to the pitch with direct instructions to foul the same player. If EHD takes note of those instructions, which the nation saw on TV, why does Sam believe the team collectively decide to defend deep when leading unless they have specifically been told to do so?

So we could argue the manager sends at least one player out with instructions to cheat, moans when an inexperienced referee either doesn't see or act on cheating by the opposition and apparently is instilling a culture in our younger players to get away with anything they can in order to win. Plus instructs his team to defend a 1-0 lead and then pleads innocence and lack of understanding when the strategy fails, which it generally will because we are a rather poor side.

If I've noticed this, I'm fairly sure people who understand football have and more.

Now I appreciate this is not my most coherent post, these thoughts have been spinning around with me for the last 24 hours or so, and still are. Yes, I do understand plenty of teams will be breaking the rules in a similar manner, not least Wenger's Arsenal!!!! If one wants to understand why Allardyce is destined to do what he does you just have to look at some of events of the 4-5 days which make it clear why he's a percentage manager, won't get you relegated and will rarely excite you.......................and will never manage at the top level.

[AndyNeil]

like Paul I've started many a time to get down on here my thoughts on the manager in the media over the last seven days, but it just turns into a rant about allsorts. However in summary, he might be effective in his 'style' of football and IMO people put it up with as the home results have continued to come, however I firmly believe that the lack of away support can be linked directly to the style of play (ultra defensive and hoof at every chance - at Man City you can understand it, but at home to Fulham?????) and it won't take many poor results at home for the discent to reach the tipping point of no return (he got very close to it at the turn of the year).

As for the man himself - I'm not even going to start for the risk of getting a warning or even worse. Rovers have in recent times been respected for being a well-run club on a limited budget prepared to give young inexperienced managers a chance (well Ince and Hughes anyway), but this joker is putting all that at risk with his idiotic comments in the press and his tactics with his partner in crime EHD.

I'm not going to say get him out, as we can't afford to but if and when any takeover happens before they even get their feet under the desk the first thing they should do is get him and EHD into the office and I quote "you two, F**K OFF"

rant over .....